AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Klak]

1750 point list for local tourney

Looking to do a list using stuff from Soul Wars with a few additions:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Mortal Realm: Hysh
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
LEADERS
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Command Trait : We Cannot Fail
- Celestial Staves (Artefact) : Staff of Focus
- Spell : Lighntning Blast
- Mount Trait : Keen-clawed
Lord-Ordinator (140)
- Artefact : God-forged Blade
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer : Translocation
UNITS
5 x Sequitors (120)
-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Evocators (200)
- 3 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration : Speed of Lightning
5 x Evocators (200)
- 3 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades
3 x Castigators (80)
WAR MACHINES
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
BATTALIONS
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Everblaze Comet (100)
TOTAL: 1740/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 97
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 2/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

 

I'm using Hammers of Sigmar because I want to use Cleansing Phalanx anyway and there's not any artefacts I'm super interested in other than Staff of Focus.  If there's some other artefact i don't know about that would be good in here I would drop Hammers and just use Staunch Defender.  God-Forged blade isn't too bad with Lord-O Astral Hammers anyway since you are doing 6 attacks.   I think I keep all the ranged stuff and Lord-O in the sky to start with and set them up where needed.  Lord-Relictor is there because my units are very slow for the most part.  Translocation on an Empowered Sequitor unit with Speed of Lighting  sounds like it would be pretty good.  Castigators are just there because I can't do anything else with my last 90 points and maybe they can be speed bumps for things trying to get to my ballistas.  

[Erdemo86]

Can someone do me a favor please and do the Math of Dracolines vs. Foot Evocators on charge?

want to know if the 100 points are worth it.

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Erdemo86

[amysrevenge]

50 minutes ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost.

Sacrosanct Chamber
Sacrosanct chamber Evocators up from 200 to 240
Lord-Exorcist down from 140 to 120
Lord-Arcanum down from 180 to 160
Castigators are now Battleline if LORD-ARCANUM is your general
Ordinator down from 140 to 100
Dais Arcanum reduced from 40 to 20
Grand Convocation up from 130 to 140

Strike Chamber
Retributors down from 220 to 200
Decimators down from 200 to 180
Liberator maximum unit size changed from 30 for 520 to 20 for 320
Gavriel Sureheart up from 100 to 160
Celestant-Prime down from 340 to 300
Prosecutors are Battleline if a LORD-CELESTANT is your general
Lords of the Storm down from 140 to 100
Devastation Brotherhood down from 110 to 100
Hammerstrike Force down from 120 to 100
Thunderhead Brotherhood down from 160 to 100
Vanguard Wing down from 140 to 100

Extremis Chamber
Vandus Hammerhand down from 280 to 240
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

Vanguard Chamber
Vanguard Angelos Conclave down from 160 to 120
Vanguard Justicar Conclave down from 120 to 100
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber down from 160 to 120

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

Not gonna line by line, but a list of 19 "down froms" with just 3 "up froms" for an already good army isn't always a great look haha

 

(Although an "up from" for Gavriel is pretty good.)

[Kugane]

22 hours ago, Richelieu said:

You nailed what I was going for.

Do you mind if I steal the idea to make a similar conversion? I am planning to make a shattered shield and helmet resting against the sword to reinforce the gravesite idea. I have a derpy evocator who is standing with his hand in the air doing nothing lol.

[Richelieu]

1 minute ago, Kugane said:

Do you mind if I steal the idea to make a similar conversion? I am planning to make a shattered shield and helmet resting against the sword to reinforce the gravesite idea. I have a derpy evocator who is standing with his hand in the air doing nothing lol.

Of course not!  While other people were griping about how Soul Wars was a cash grab and useless for competitive players I was coming up with ideas for simple conversions that wouldn't cost us a dime!

I also got my hands on a couple of the Getting started magazines with alternate knight incantor sculpts to use as my evocator stand ins.  Funny thing is the armor, vestments and iconography are identical to the evocators rather than the female knight incantor, so he looks like he belongs to the unit.  I'll mix and match with a regular kit of evocators so I don't have any repeat sculpts within a unit.

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost.

Sacrosanct Chamber
Sacrosanct chamber Evocators up from 200 to 240
Lord-Exorcist down from 140 to 120
Lord-Arcanum down from 180 to 160
Castigators are now Battleline if LORD-ARCANUM is your general
Ordinator down from 140 to 100
Dais Arcanum reduced from 40 to 20
Grand Convocation up from 130 to 140

Strike Chamber
Retributors down from 220 to 200
Decimators down from 200 to 180
Liberator maximum unit size changed from 30 for 520 to 20 for 320
Gavriel Sureheart up from 100 to 160
Celestant-Prime down from 340 to 300
Prosecutors are Battleline if a LORD-CELESTANT is your general
Lords of the Storm down from 140 to 100
Devastation Brotherhood down from 110 to 100
Hammerstrike Force down from 120 to 100
Thunderhead Brotherhood down from 160 to 100
Vanguard Wing down from 140 to 100

Extremis Chamber
Vandus Hammerhand down from 280 to 240
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

Vanguard Chamber
Vanguard Angelos Conclave down from 160 to 120
Vanguard Justicar Conclave down from 120 to 100
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber down from 160 to 120

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

I wouldn't use Evocators for 240. That says quite a lot about your suggestion. Going up to 220 plus Retributors down to 200 would be enough to make both interesting.

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Extremis Chamber
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

As much as I know a lot of people who want to do this, making the dracoth army cheaper, and removing the battle line requirements, is going to create a lot of clone armies, and that's something I don't personally want to play against. The cost of dracoths and the requirement to take something besides dracoths is the only thing barely keeping them in check. I'm sorry if my opinion is unpopular, but that's what i think.

Other than that I pretty much agree with everything else you suggested. In general I do think there's a lot of weirdness and improperly costed units in the tome, and it's odd that they didn't address it while they were writing a new one. My guess is that they are trying to keep people from doing certain "broken" combos. Also, it's very obvious that they are trying to sell people the new units, and evocators are way undercosted for what they do. It's also why Sequitors are so curiously good for only 20 points more.

As much as I hate to say it, bringing out a new book seems to have further pointed out how badly the book needs an rehaul... However don't get me wrong, I'm generally pretty happy with how much better my army plays now. The new book did a lot of things right.

[Kugane]

43 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Of course not!  While other people were griping about how Soul Wars was a cash grab and useless for competitive players I was coming up with ideas for simple conversions that wouldn't cost us a dime!

I also got my hands on a couple of the Getting started magazines with alternate knight incantor sculpts to use as my evocator stand ins.  Funny thing is the armor, vestments and iconography are identical to the evocators rather than the female knight incantor, so he looks like he belongs to the unit.  I'll mix and match with a regular kit of evocators so I don't have any repeat sculpts within a unit.

Thank you! I also used the female incantor stave as a grandstave for several evocator conversions. The boxed set look very cool and detailed, but the cheap route = best route when converting XD.

All my sequitors have swords now at least! (Many harvested from the evocators haha)

[Freejack02]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost.

Sacrosanct Chamber
Sacrosanct chamber Evocators up from 200 to 240
Lord-Exorcist down from 140 to 120
Lord-Arcanum down from 180 to 160
Castigators are now Battleline if LORD-ARCANUM is your general
Ordinator down from 140 to 100
Dais Arcanum reduced from 40 to 20
Grand Convocation up from 130 to 140

Strike Chamber
Retributors down from 220 to 200
Decimators down from 200 to 180
Liberator maximum unit size changed from 30 for 520 to 20 for 320
Gavriel Sureheart up from 100 to 160
Celestant-Prime down from 340 to 300
Prosecutors are Battleline if a LORD-CELESTANT is your general
Lords of the Storm down from 140 to 100
Devastation Brotherhood down from 110 to 100
Hammerstrike Force down from 120 to 100
Thunderhead Brotherhood down from 160 to 100
Vanguard Wing down from 140 to 100

Extremis Chamber
Vandus Hammerhand down from 280 to 240
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

Vanguard Chamber
Vanguard Angelos Conclave down from 160 to 120
Vanguard Justicar Conclave down from 120 to 100
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber down from 160 to 120

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

Bah, I had a long line-by-line answer for this and the forums ate it... but overall I like most of them. I'll just hit the cliffnotes:

Evocators are a bit underpointed currently, but 240 for 15 wounds with a 4+ save is steep. I'd rather see their ludicrous mortal wound output curbed to 1 dice per model, or adjusting the target roll to a 5 or 6.

Gavriel needs his CA nerfed, I'd rather he not get a points increase. Limit it to 1/turn, and maybe a bump to 120.  

Vandus is a good unit already, good offense with a great CA. Not sure he needs an adjustment.

Dracothian Guard battleline? As cool as it would be to field, I think that gets a "hell no" from me. 

Love Castigators and Prosecutors being conditional battleline - I've wanted a winged melee Hero that made Prosecutors battleline for years now. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Freejack02

[The World Tree]

On 7/26/2018 at 7:58 PM, CountryMou3e said:

suggestions

Evocators at 240 may be too much. 220 with the Paladins dropping as described should suffice. They are still pretty fragile and slow, so have some defined weaknesses. 

Sequitors should be 140. 

Castigators as battleline if makes some sense, but 240 for your core tax is very cheap... don't know about that.

Dracoth cavalry should not be core - there is no reason to further emphasise the value of the star drake.

Prosecutors should just be battleline. Would add an additional bit of flavour to Stormcast armies, because they aren't replacing what Libs/Juds/Seqs do.

Edited July 30, 2018 by The World Tree

[Mpire]

Howdy folks, got a tournament coming up and here’s my list! Any suggestions? 

Tournacast.pdf

[Freejack02]

7 minutes ago, Mpire said:

Howdy folks, got a tournament coming up and here’s my list! Any suggestions? 

Tournacast.pdf

You seem to be missing an artefact - battalion allows for two and all you have is the required Hammers one. 

[Mpire]

5 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

You seem to be missing an artefact - battalion allows for two and all you have is the required Hammers one. 

My bad, the other is a staff of focus on the arcanum.

 

[Klak]

That list is very close to the one that won a pretty big tournament in the UK this weekend:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

LEADERS

Gavriel Sureheart (100)

Knight-Vexillor (120) - Pennant of the Stormbringer - Artefact : God-forged Blade

Lord-Castellant (100)

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240) - General - Command Trait : We Cannot Fail - Spell : Azyrite Halo - Mount Trait : Lithe-limbed

UNITS

10 x Evocators (400) - Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades

5 x Evocators (200) - Lore of Invigoration : Speed of Lightning

20 x Sequitors (400) -Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 9 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

10 x Skinks (60) -Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers - Allies

10 x Skinks (60) -Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers - Allies

 

 

[Galamund]

23 hours ago, Bellfree said:

If you use random realmscape features, they're all terrible. If you pick the realmscape and deliberately avoid things like "All shooting units are useless" and "Tried to play a cavalry/footslog list? Concede right now" and "Stupid random ****** falls out of the sky and just so happens to kill the guy you have standing on an objective so you lose!" and "I rolled a 6 during my double-turn's combat phase so pack up, you lose.", or even better don't use the realmscape features because they're really stupid, or even betterer don't use the realm rules at all because they're totally asinine, then that's pretty fair.

I agree they're all terrible and I certainly wouldn't volunteer to use them. However, sometimes this is unavoidable (playing a random opponent and you don't want to launch into a tirade about how they're awful or try to convince them not to play with them, or if you're in a tournament) so I want to discuss how to adapt to this unfortunate new world we find ourselves in.
 

[Galamund]

6 hours ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost.

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

By Sigmar's Hammer man, shut up! Shhhhhh. Haha, don't go suggesting points increases for the units we desperately need to be competitive! I struggle to overcome Nagash lists, or Death generally, as well as well-built Tzeentch or Nurgle lists. Even other Order lists, with Kroak or Witch Aelves are scary. We don't need nerfs

If the goal is to make older units better, which I concur is a good thing, I would agree with some other posters suggesting that most older units (Paladins especially) should go down by 20-40pts. But putting Evocators and Sequitors up in points is heresy against Azyr's Throne as far as I'm concerned. Those units are costed appropriately given the stuff we have to face. The solution is making other options appropriately costed, not drag everything into the realm of over-costed irrelevance (like our poor Retributors).

Edited July 31, 2018 by Galamund

[Galamund]

22 minutes ago, Klak said:

That list is very close to the one that won a pretty big tournament in the UK this weekend:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

LEADERS

Gavriel Sureheart (100)

Knight-Vexillor (120) - Pennant of the Stormbringer - Artefact : God-forged Blade

Lord-Castellant (100)

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240) - General - Command Trait : We Cannot Fail - Spell : Azyrite Halo - Mount Trait : Lithe-limbed

UNITS

10 x Evocators (400) - Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades

5 x Evocators (200) - Lore of Invigoration : Speed of Lightning

20 x Sequitors (400) -Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 9 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows - 1 x Shockbolt Bows

10 x Skinks (60) -Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers - Allies

10 x Skinks (60) -Meteoric Javelins & Star Bucklers - Allies

 

 

This makes me feel very clever indeed, since this is very similar to a list I used in the last three games I've played. I really, really like it.

Let's speculate though - why take the Skinks? Also, why no Cleansing Phalanx? Gavriel is a CP-hungry hero so taking a Battalion to fuel his deepstrike tactic seems almost compulsory to me.

 

 

[Klak]

1 hour ago, Galamund said:

This makes me feel very clever indeed, since this is very similar to a list I used in the last three games I've played. I really, really like it.

Let's speculate though - why take the Skinks? Also, why no Cleansing Phalanx? Gavriel is a CP-hungry hero so taking a Battalion to fuel his deepstrike tactic seems almost compulsory to me.

 

 

I think it's just to have cheap screening/objective securing units which the stormcast lack.  On the cast they would frequently use the disengage to go grab objectives.  There were some non standard battle plans that they were good in too because of the extra mobility,

Edited July 31, 2018 by Klak

[schwabbele]

I guess the skinks are there for blocking alpha strikes 

[Black Blade]

13 hours ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost.

Sacrosanct Chamber
Sacrosanct chamber Evocators up from 200 to 240
Lord-Exorcist down from 140 to 120
Lord-Arcanum down from 180 to 160
Castigators are now Battleline if LORD-ARCANUM is your general
Ordinator down from 140 to 100
Dais Arcanum reduced from 40 to 20
Grand Convocation up from 130 to 140

Strike Chamber
Retributors down from 220 to 200
Decimators down from 200 to 180
Liberator maximum unit size changed from 30 for 520 to 20 for 320
Gavriel Sureheart up from 100 to 160
Celestant-Prime down from 340 to 300
Prosecutors are Battleline if a LORD-CELESTANT is your general
Lords of the Storm down from 140 to 100
Devastation Brotherhood down from 110 to 100
Hammerstrike Force down from 120 to 100
Thunderhead Brotherhood down from 160 to 100
Vanguard Wing down from 140 to 100

Extremis Chamber
Vandus Hammerhand down from 280 to 240
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

Vanguard Chamber
Vanguard Angelos Conclave down from 160 to 120
Vanguard Justicar Conclave down from 120 to 100
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber down from 160 to 120

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

I like a whole lot of this but I think I would just raise the Evocators to 220. 240 feels like too much of an ask for what they are achieving vs retributors at 200.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Black Blade

[GeneralZero]

Why are you speaking about changing points whereas we just have the GH2018 and have to wait 1 full year for the next GH2019? We have to deal with those points. Not perfect, but still enjoyable

[ledha]

Hey guys. I'm still trying to do nice things with my skyborne slayers, but i don't know how to finish the list. I have 130 pts left

LEADERS
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Artefact : Obsidian Amulet

Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact) : Staff of Focus

Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer

UNITS
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Liberators (100)
-Warblade & Shield
- 1 x Grandblades

5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

10 x Protectors (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces

5 x Decimators (200)
- 2 x Starsoul Maces

5 x Evocators (200)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades

BATTALIONS
Skyborne Slayers (190)

[AdamR]

46 minutes ago, ledha said:

Hey guys. I'm still trying to do nice things with my skyborne slayers, but i don't know how to finish the list. I have 130 pts left

LEADERS
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Artefact : Obsidian Amulet

Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact) : Staff of Focus

Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer

UNITS
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

5 x Liberators (100)
-Warblade & Shield
- 1 x Grandblades

5 x Liberators (100)
-Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

10 x Protectors (400)
- 4 x Starsoul Maces

5 x Decimators (200)
- 2 x Starsoul Maces

5 x Evocators (200)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades

BATTALIONS
Skyborne Slayers (190)

How about...

Add a Lord Castellant.
Swap out 5 Protectors to make your Evocators 10 strong.
Turn 1 tie up enemy army with deep striking slayers. Scions Evocators/Castellant in position (start Judicators on the board to allow this).
Turn 2+Buff Evocators with Lantern,  smash enemy with your Evocators.

That's 1970 - add a cheap endless spell if desired?

[Bradipo322]

14 hours ago, PJetski said:

 

After some experience with the new battletome I've written up a list of changes I think could improve the balance of the army. I think these changes would make the army more balanced internally and improve some of the weaker units so they can see more play (Exorcist, Retributors, most battalions) and tone down the power of some units that are just a little bit too powerful for their point cost. 

[...]

What do you guys think? Did I buff/nerf untis too much, or not enough?

Sacrosanct Chamber
Sacrosanct chamber Evocators up from 200 to 240 (still haven't played with those but they are powerful, would they be played at 240 points? Probably yes)
Lord-Exorcist down from 140 to 120 (at 140 he is definitively overcosted and he is also too situational, 120 to me is still too much, a Lord-Relictor is better in any way)
Lord-Arcanum down from 180 to 160 (he unlocks Sequitors as a battleline and he is the cheapest unit that does that, maybe he is right at 180)
Castigators are now Battleline if LORD-ARCANUM is your general (not really needed, we have judicators for a shooting battleline and sequitors fot the sacrosant chamber)
Ordinator down from 140 to 100 (hell yes! With his change in the new edition his point cost is usually not justificable)
Dais Arcanum reduced from 40 to 20 (20 points?! That would be crazy good! Maybe too good, a save of 2+ for a mage is too much for only 20 points and on top of that he flies and has 2 unbinds)
Grand Convocation up from 130 to 140 (why? This battalion is not crazy good, +1 to casting is not bad, and it's easly disruptable)

Strike Chamber
Retributors down from 220 to 200 (we can all agree that this would be a nice change)
Decimators down from 200 to 180 (200 seems right)
Liberator maximum unit size changed from 30 for 520 to 20 for 320 (this seems arbitrary but it would make liberators a lot more playable)
Gavriel Sureheart up from 100 to 160 (no! Just change his ability to affect units only once)
Celestant-Prime down from 340 to 300 (maybe that's too much? I don't know)
Prosecutors are Battleline if a LORD-CELESTANT is your general (not really needed, prosecutors are not that good because they have only 2 wounds to a total of 6 for 100 points)
Lords of the Storm down from 140 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Devastation Brotherhood down from 110 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Hammerstrike Force down from 120 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Thunderhead Brotherhood down from 160 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Vanguard Wing down from 140 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)

Extremis Chamber
Vandus Hammerhand down from 280 to 240 (his command ability is good, he also gives battleshock immunity, I think 280 are somewhat right for him)
Concussors, Tempestors, Fulminators, Desolators are now Battleline if a DRACOTH or STARDRAKE is your general (this or the point discount, you can't have both)
Concussors down from 260 to 240
Desolators down from 220 to 200

Vanguard Chamber
Vanguard Angelos Conclave down from 160 to 120 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Vanguard Justicar Conclave down from 120 to 100 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber down from 160 to 120 (battalions got nerfed to oblivion, this would bring them out of the grave)

[ledha]

30 minutes ago, AdamR said:

How about...

Add a Lord Castellant.
Swap out 5 Protectors to make your Evocators 10 strong.
Turn 1 tie up enemy army with deep striking slayers. Scions Evocators/Castellant in position (start Judicators on the board to allow this).
Turn 2+Buff Evocators with Lantern,  smash enemy with your Evocators.

That's 1970 - add a cheap endless spell if desired?

I'm hesitant on the castellant, since he can't protect a unit coming from the sky.
As for the protector to evocators, it's a very good choice. I admit i prefer having a 10-man units of protectors because their 3" range make them ridiculously easy to stay in the staunch defender area while striking at full force, as well to protect a big part of my army from shooting.

My original ideas are a azyros (fast, resilient, big base can make him a very good general for staunch defender), and his lantern now work in range AND melee, and paladins/evocators striking at 2+ reroll 1 is quite beautiful) or 5 sequitors, for another little good hammer unit which can improve my poor board coverage

The schackles is a extremely good idea, i will definitely take them !

Edited July 31, 2018 by ledha