DanielFM

Points have already leaked. The bad: -130 points Soulscryers. Harsh -170 points Morrsar. Manageable -Eidolon of the sea 420 points, Eidolon of the Storm 400. So -20 and unchanged. Still a hot pile of garbage. The good: -350 points Leviadon. -120 points Allopex. Both closer to be useable. -80 points Soulrender -130 points Namartis. Nothing groundbreaking, each 10 infantry guys pay for the Morrsar overcost. Overall? Nothing will change. With a pure eel list, you lose 30-60 points. With a mixed list, you gain maybe 30-40 points. What use are those, an endless spell? I hope other armies didn't get cuts across the board, because we will be left behind.

You get 6 and 9 Morsarr for those points. Are you sure you wouldn't be better with them? Only in wounds, that's 60 over 24. Yes, it can change if Morsarr get nerfed (and hopefully Eidolon get cheaper) but right now I don't see the point.

Pure Morrsar spam just came 2nd in Throne of Skulls. I hope it's not sending GW the wrong message. Spamming our best unit is still competitive, yes. But the rest of the army needs help. So when GHB2019 comes, let's cross fingers they don't just nerf Morrsar and leave the rest of the army as it is.

If units were balanced (ideally) people would not lose much by using a split of those units, and most people tend to prefer model variety so they would go for it. Even then, the real incentive for variety is not (only) balance but slightly different roles. People still field some Ishlaen (not many, though) as they offer something different to Morrsar. Allopexes don't really offer anything substantially different to Morrsar (mediocre shooting?). Making them cheaper could help to see them on the tables, but it wouldn't be enough.

Yep, meant Aspect of the Sea, sorry. 440 minus the proposed reduction (by DantePQ) would be 400. Most things I mentioned can have magical artifacts. They also get their own useful allegiance abilities. And some of them are as fast or faster, even flying (Aspect of the Sea, the overpriced one, moves only 10). Once again, only thing it has going for it is Forgotten Nightmares and access to cover and LoS.

The Aspect of the Sea would still be overpriced at 400. Compare to: Thanquol- 400. Every bit as good a Spellcaster. Tougher. Close combat/shooting machine Verminlords-300 or under. More or less what I said above. Screaming Bell- 200, the same again, but much slower. Lord of Change- 380, tougher, way better wizard. I'm sure there are more examples out there. It could go down to 350 and it would be still fair. Seriously, is being "untargetable" by shooting worth 80- 100 points?

Almost the whole army except Morrsar needs and deserve a point decrease, at least to compete with the newer, more powerful battletomes. Well, if GW expect us to play anything besides eels. Let's hope they realize and gives us at least some of them. And not as part of an "everybody gets cheaper" spree as happened in 40k 🤣

Speaking of points and Skaven, how is the Screaming Bell at 200 points not a spit in the face for anyone fielding the Aspect of the Sea for 440 points? 13 wounds, not a monster, LoS also in close combat, 5+ negate any wound, two spells/unbinds per turn, two great auras, retreat before CC attacks. Is there anything besides +4 move and a single spell reroll/1d3 wounds heal justifying double the points/making you feel less stupid for using it? GHB2019 can't come fast enough.

The model? Really cool. The rules? Not for 140 points. It's almost literally deadweight, and worse than 3 Ishlaen in almost any scenario (except being required for the Akhelian Corps). Compare to the rules of the Ironblaster for 120, for example. We got 2 sharks in the Battleforce, anyway. No-one is going to need more than that 😆

I think it's a perfect selection to round up the battleforce. Three battleline with either general (Reavers +2x10 Thralls or 2x10 thralls+6 eels in one unit), two useful Isharann heroes (ok, if you are willing to pick Mor'phann) and a support Shark. Maybe the competitive meta is eels^10 (not really, though. Look at LVO), but for that you have individual eel boxes. GW was never going to release a discount box with just eels.

There is. You lose the Command Ability, so eels will never be as powerful. But they get a more advantageous Tides of Death helping them with battle tempo. How is that not a trade-off?

Is it very competitive? Yeah Is there a big trade-off losing Lord of Tides/Supreme Lord of Tides? I think there is, clearly. I think both are valid approaches with different strengths. AFAIK none of the top-10 IDK lists in LVO 2019 were Reverse Tide Fuethan, this shows how an Akhelian King/Volturnos list can be very competitive.

You know what? You are actually right. Six Morrsar with +3 attacks for each weapon (and reroll 1's from AK) cause 28 wounds against a 4+ save unit on average. Ok, it's not the carnage they would unleash if they had charged (46 wounds), but when are you realistically going to need that much damage? Or as you said, how often will you able to line up such a charge until it's too late to decide the game? It's a shame Lord of Tides is not one of the many "use at the start of the combat phase" Command Abilities, as it would have been very useful to pop it during High Tide if the opponent got first turn. In such situation, when your turn comes and you can use it the unit will have been depleted significantly. Well, it is as it is. There is so much finesse to learn to play IDK right!

Really? Their stats are pretty mediocre without the charge buff.

It seems a bit of a waste of their great mobility to spend the "outflank" slots and have them wait a turn on the table when the slower Namarti could really benefit from the added movement. I guess the case is for them to charge the turn they come (2nd) against an easy target so they are free to charge a beefy target next turn under High Tide. Getting stuck second turn and losing the chance to charge during High Tide wastes all the potential of Lord of Tides on Morrsar, and so would consider it a big mistake in one of my games. Yet, I see Morrsar + King in ambush at least as an option to consider now.

I thought keeping a big Morrsar unit+King on ambush was a good idea to have them intact before the charge. Then I realized the command ability is used in the hero phase (if it's not specified it's like that by default, by FAQ), so you can't come up turn 3 and buff the Morrsar. This tactic is a lot worse if they must spend a turn on the table before charging.

There are good realm artifacts, some are great! But the Cloud of Midnight brings so much utility it's a must. Shooty opponent? Run the Akhelian king in front of your army and pop the Cloud. Whole shooting phase wasted (thanks FAQ!). Power magic? Pop it in the hero phase and he is immune. You don't even have to waste its close combat potential by using it in the combat phase, even if you can in case of emergency. I'm still torn between Briomdar and Ionrach, and between 2x10 Thralls and 6 eels or 20 Thralls or 2x3 eels. Every choice has a high cost. Aaargh!

Thanks a lot for the advice. The battalion is to lower the drops, get an additional Pack Leader use and to get a useful artifact besides the mandatory one. The list is not very focused, I know. The lack of optimization is a mix of "the models I own" and "rule of cool". I will try to do my best with it knowing there is a better verion of it out there. Any advice for the spells? PD. Yeah. LCOSD is way better, but those points allowed me to fit it in my list without changing it too much. And I think it will perform well.

Hi guys! Long time no see! Reading about the possibilities of Astral Templars alpha-strike, I redid one of my lists and I think I came into something (at least fun!) Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Astral TemplarsMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersLord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline(240)- General- Trait: Dauntless Hunters - Artefact: Godbeast Plate - Spell: Thundershock- Mount Trait: Pride LeaderDrakesworn Templar (460)- Storm Lance- Artefact: Ignax's Scales - Mount Trait: Storm-wingedKnight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Speed of LightningBattleline5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt BowsUnits3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)5 x Evocators (200)- 2x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)- 2x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial BladesBattalionsCleansing Phalanx (120)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 94 Drakesworn, Dracolines and Lord Arcanum rush forward and hopefully combo-charge in the first turn (Lightning speed on the Incantor is for the Drakesworn). Judicators and the Incantor sit on the backfield and the rest drop from Azyr, to support the hammer blow or strategically in later turns to block/kill vulnerable targets/take objectives. I think it's no tournament winner material but it can sure give some run for their money to middle tiers. Would you change the spells? It's what I put less thought on.

I'm so dumb, I can't believe it. Infiltrating the Aspect of the Sea with the Soulscryer is basically useless, he appears in the movement phase so he can't cast that turn. So, Steed of Tides it is. I'm no longer sure if Briomdar is worth it for that list. -If I keep Briomdar, I can split the Thralls in 2x10 and still infiltrate them plus Reavers (and have the 6 Morrsar together). I could also inflitrate Reavers +20 Thralls +Leviadon for the shock factor. -Ionrach would give me the free +1 to cast for the Aspect of the Sea (and Steed Tidecaster) I'm not interested in the other Enclaves for different reasons, they basically don't fit with my idea for the list. This is the updated list (I can change the Tidecaster for 5 Khinerai Heartrenders and a 20 points Endless spell): Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin- Enclave: BriomdarIsharann Soulscryer (100)Akhelian King (240)- General- Trait: Born From Agony - Artefact: Cloud of Midnight Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)- Lore of the Deeps: Tide of FearIsharann Tidecaster (100)- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides20 x Namarti Thralls (280)3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)10 x Namarti Reavers (140)Akhelian Leviadon (380)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 99 Yes, I know noone cares about my ramblings 😂

Yes, and it's on a unique character, that people automatically takes over the regular one. Maybe that speaks worse of internal than external balance. Forgotten Nightmares protect against shooting. Hero phase mortal wounds and spells will kill it just fine (not Volturnos, but I hate the guy! 🤣 What it's hilarious is that top tier IDK lists are spam of 1 units (spear eels) with support characters. How is that any different from FEC being limited in unit choices?

The remaining 12 get to strike before battleshock kills them, so it doesn't add up to your "kill them before they get to attack". As you say, right now the battleshock can be nullified for 1 command point, all the easier if there is only a single chunky block. But I guess the general concept is viable. You only need to commit a lot of points to do it reliably. They are only 300 points, after all.

Well, average damage including shooting is 17.5 so I hope you played lottery the same day because you were on a rather unlikely streak. They regenerate 5 models on average if a crypt ghast courtier is nearby, so it sounds even more difficult to achieve.

Having individual abilities one-up the previous ones smells of bad balance, power creep and old Warhammer-Fantasy-editions-go-to-hell-as-new-armybooks-get-stronger. That was a big strawman: you can get almost 3 varghulfs for an Eidolon, and they are collectively better. Spell Vs command ability, one on one, can't be really balanced by points so easily. We can still wait for the rest of the army to see it context, but a 30 strong Crypt Ghoul unit with an easy to cast +1d3 attacks will be very powerful regardless of that. Yeah, we must wait. But it doesn't look that good (in balance terms) to begin with.

We don't know if FEC can get bonus to cast. 24" range make it more difficult to dispel it. Plus they can use it turn 2, 3 and 4, 3x more times that IDK. Together with the +1d3 attacks (on average it's as good as using Lord of Tides 2 times), how is it not head and shoulders better?