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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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On 4/1/2021 at 4:46 PM, Gwendar said:

If you want to run a magic focused list, I would argue Hosts Duplicitous for the free RR's is the better option.. hell, even Guild. Flux is only giving 1 caster a +1 to cast and any spell cast that does MW's to a unit will do 1 more on a 4+ to that unit; not exactly good by any stretch of the imagination. I've posted plenty of spellcasting lists and I ran them competitively for ~4-6 months with good success. Unfortunately against the current meta shooting armies it can struggle a bit since it's hero-based. If you play vs something without hero-sniping capability it's great.


Speaking of lists, have a couple to run by you all if you're looking to try anything new. I don't post much anymore but IRL games may be starting again soon and I'm looking at starting up my batreps again with the following lists:

Varanguard

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Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Spell Hunters
- Artefact: The Fanged Circlet
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Varanguard (560)
- Daemonforged Blades

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 96

Essentially an Archaon list, but with 6 VG instead. With Daemonforged weapons you're looking at similar output as Archaon and you get to fight again if there's still something within 3" effectively doubling that damage (~36 wounds vs a 4+ on average per pile-in) and actually ending up a bit higher than Archaon with 10 more wounds

OG Casting (slightly modified)

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Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Will of the Phantom Lord
- Artefact: Brand of the Spirit Daemon
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Changeling (140)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 10x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

This is essentially my original casting list, but without Be'lakor (since he's due to be changed into who knows what) and adding in 6 Skyfires. Now, anyone who's seen me post before knows I sing praises about Skyfires; yeah, they're overcosted but they aren't as horrific as everyone seems to think. They're a bit dual-purpose and make your opponent (who will undoubtedly beat you on drops) think a bit about their 40" threat range taking out one of their support characters. Since they get RR's by attacking first you can easily get them to clear an objective of a chaff unit since fully buffed they're generally throwing out ~20 wounds vs a 4+ save. Are they going to take down 20 Hearthguard or 30 Phoenix Guard? No, but that's not their purpose; you have a ton of MW's via magic and a few ways to stack negative modifiers on units to take care of situations like that. This will generally get out at least 10 FP a turn unless you roll absolutely horrifically.

Obviously if you like you can drop Skyfires for Enlightened or a StD unit + Sorc Lord or switch around the casters. This could be ran in GoS too and in that scenario you just use the Changeling as a RR battery.. I just enjoy summoning inescapable Horrors every turn and getting free RR's to casting and unbinding without worrying about rolling to get the RR's that I always end up rolling a 1+ for.

As alweys i love your  lists  so mutch, expecially the second one!

-Do you think they gonna change belakor warscroll?:)

- what about add balewind vortex for herald of tz ( 40pts) if I decide to play englighted? 

Thx so mutch!!:)

Edited by Tizianolol
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Hey guys, I've tried to use the search engine on TGA and couldn't find the answer I'm looking for and Google also had mostly old info (pre new battletome).

Any advice on building tzaangors with shields or dual blades for a unit of 10 or a unit of 20?

Hope someone can help out.

Thanks!

 

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14 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey guys, I've tried to use the search engine on TGA and couldn't find the answer I'm looking for and Google also had mostly old info (pre new battletome).

Any advice on building tzaangors with shields or dual blades for a unit of 10 or a unit of 20?

Hope someone can help out.

Thanks!

 

If its 20 go shields, you'll have 8 greatblades and 4 mutants so there usually won't be room to fit many of the remaining 8 into combat.

If its a unit of 10 it can go either way, dual blades will be more damage, especially once you lose the extra attack but for the most part tzaangors don't do much when you lose the extra attack anyways.

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Ok, I'm really confused now. I'm building my first Kairic Acolyte 20men unit. The warscroll says that 3 in every 10 models can use Glaives. That means a unit of 20 can use 6 of those guys. Now....

I find that there are only 4 Glaives on the box (pic, parts 69 and 70) since Kairic Adepts weapon is called a blade (though it looks much more similar to a glaive than a blade). So, what is the truth behind that?

IMG_20210404_175649.jpg

IMG_20210404_175700.jpg

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1 hour ago, Aeryenn said:

Ok, I'm really confused now. I'm building my first Kairic Acolyte 20men unit. The warscroll says that 3 in every 10 models can use Glaives. That means a unit of 20 can use 6 of those guys. Now....

I find that there are only 4 Glaives on the box (pic, parts 69 and 70) since Kairic Adepts weapon is called a blade (though it looks much more similar to a glaive than a blade). So, what is the truth behind that?

IMG_20210404_175649.jpg

IMG_20210404_175700.jpg

This had me confused too but I do believe that the Adepts weapon is the same category as the glaives. That would hence, count as 3 per 10. It's the only way it makes sense. Also if you notice, on GW website, the Adept has a sword so this glaive could be given to someone else too.

Edited by Jabbuk
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Hey Changecasters, Im looking into getting my first army and ive always loved tzeentch's aesthetics. So I was wondering if you guys could help me build a 2k point list. Ive already made a few draft lists but I thought id come here first.

First thing is, Id like to play a mostly mortals army. Tzaangors and kairic acolytes seems really fun, especially when you add in battalions and change covens. also horrors burn through cash faster than warpfire through a nurgling.

Id probably be using either the cult of transient for changehost, or the pyrofane cult, both seem like interesting and different ways to play.

Any advice or tips are appreciated!

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I've encountered another problem. The warscroll says that only one model in a unit can be a Kairic Adept. Unfortunately the unit's boss is called so, then another with a dark scroll is also Kairic Adept and the one with a bird as well. Does that mean I have to choose or i can have all three as this "one per unit" only refers to the boss?

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On 4/3/2021 at 4:20 PM, mrcamp1990 said:

Excuse me @Gwendar, what do you mean by "in that scenario you just use the Changeling as a RR battery"? 

Thank you in advance

I meant the The Blue Scribes could hand out casting RR's, not the Changeling.. sorry 😅

 

On 4/3/2021 at 6:07 PM, Tizianolol said:

As alweys i love your  lists  so mutch, expecially the second one!

-Do you think they gonna change belakor warscroll?:)

- what about add balewind vortex for herald of tz ( 40pts) if I decide to play englighted? 

Thx so mutch!!:)

I appreciate it, I love making and sharing them with people. As for Be'lakor, absolutely.. I think it's a given he will be changed and points will be increased since he's basically just Archaon but for Daemons.. so I leave him out of lists since he may\may not have the unit shutdown and even if he does he may double (or more) in points and then it won't be worth it in a casting based list (unless he becomes as beatstick as Archaon)

I ran BW all the time for the Changecaster since it pairs so well with him.. but in that particular list I just couldn't fit it in which is fine. If you can afford it in a list do it, otherwise it's not a huge detriment if you don't have it


 

On 4/4/2021 at 5:15 AM, Tizianolol said:

Speaking about host duplicious, if I summon a spawn into an opponent unit, that spawn became an host duplicious unit? So enemy unit cannon retreat? 

Correct, that's one reason I typically run my caster lists in HD (and also why you could use a Magister as he also can summon a Spawn with his spell) along with the fact the free RR's to casting\unbinding are so good.

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7 hours ago, Aeryenn said:

I've encountered another problem. The warscroll says that only one model in a unit can be a Kairic Adept. Unfortunately the unit's boss is called so, then another with a dark scroll is also Kairic Adept and the one with a bird as well. Does that mean I have to choose or i can have all three as this "one per unit" only refers to the boss?

The Adept is the “Leader” of the unit. The scroll and birdboy are different. See the warscroll on the app.

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12 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

@Gwendar i forgot about magister, how can I put magister in? What i can  remove in your list  to find a place for him? Maybe great bray shaman? Thx  a lot!

I suppose you could, although I greatly prefer the ability to pull things out of what with the Shaman's spell. Plus it makes the Skyfires move an extra 3" if that matters to you (45" threat range) compared to just doing d3 MW's and maybe getting another Spawn. Either way it can be justified I suppose.

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Hi guys, i have in mind this list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Spell Hunters  
- Artefact: The Fanged Circlet  
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

Units
6 x Varanguard (560)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

what do you think? Are there any better solutions?

Buff archaon, dealing mw with changecaster and waiting the charge of varanguard while at the same time taking objectives fast with screamers.

Thank you in advace

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On 4/5/2021 at 3:50 AM, Aeryenn said:

I've encountered another problem. The warscroll says that only one model in a unit can be a Kairic Adept. Unfortunately the unit's boss is called so, then another with a dark scroll is also Kairic Adept and the one with a bird as well. Does that mean I have to choose or i can have all three as this "one per unit" only refers to the boss?

They have different mentions in the scroll and it's pretty clear. The Adept is the boss of the unit (there's only one) then the guy with Scroll of Dark Arts, one per 10, and Vulcharch guy, one per 10. You can choose to put less if you want. I didn't even know these other two were called adepts. Just stick to what the warscroll says :)

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Do you like chaos warriors and Tzeentch but slaves to darkness are ****** with all of that? Don't worry! I have the solution for you for free

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Cult of a Thousand Eyes (Host of Chaos)
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Fatemaster (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Tzeentch is Pleased
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Artefact: Crown of Whispers
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

Battleline
15 x Chaos Warriors (270)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
15 x Chaos Warriors (270)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 12x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Cursed Lance
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (400)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 164

 

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On 4/6/2021 at 8:07 AM, mrcamp1990 said:


Hi guys, i have in mind this list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Spell Hunters  
- Artefact: The Fanged Circlet  
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

Units
6 x Varanguard (560)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

what do you think? Are there any better solutions?

Buff archaon, dealing mw with changecaster and waiting the charge of varanguard while at the same time taking objectives fast with screamers.

Thank you in advace

Not quite sure what the purpose of the Changecasters are? With Archaon you really want him juiced up so he can take a punch and deliver one as well. You typically see Kairos paired with him because Kairos can cast the Daemonic Power off the Chaos Sorcerer Lord much more reliably plus you have the added bonus of being able to ranged snipe a hero or something else with Umbrall Spellportal + Gift of Change. Archaon will be out and about doing stuff while the Changecasters will sit back and do very little.

I feel like the typical Archaon list you see in Tzeentch is quite refined and honestly this just seems like a toned down version of it. 

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20 hours ago, Kasper said:

Not quite sure what the purpose of the Changecasters are? With Archaon you really want him juiced up so he can take a punch and deliver one as well. You typically see Kairos paired with him because Kairos can cast the Daemonic Power off the Chaos Sorcerer Lord much more reliably plus you have the added bonus of being able to ranged snipe a hero or something else with Umbrall Spellportal + Gift of Change. Archaon will be out and about doing stuff while the Changecasters will sit back and do very little.

I feel like the typical Archaon list you see in Tzeentch is quite refined and honestly this just seems like a toned down version of it. 

You are absolutely right. I was just thinking a list with archaon and varanguard togheter because i like the models. If you have some other suggestions please feel free to do it. I thought that Changecaster and balewind could help to deal some MWs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Everyone, 

Sorry if this has been asked before, but can I use multiple destiny dice for multiple rolls? 

I ask because in 40k, Sisters of Battle have a similar dice changing mechanic. As rolls are "supposed" to be done 1 by one according to the rules, and there is a restriction of only one "act of faith" (dice change) allowed per phase, I can only change one hit / wound or save roll, despite having loads of dice to use. 

Is this the same in AoS? Say I have 3 4s, can I change 3 hit wound or save rolls to those 4s? 

Sorry if that doesn't make sense. All of this Tzeentchian trickery makes my simple Death non existent brain hurt. 

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On 4/20/2021 at 12:23 PM, schwabbele said:

Could some of you please recommend me a few painting guides / inspirational resources for Tzeentch?

I started building my Tzeentch army recently and this is one of the pictures that serves as a great inspiration for me (in general, I absolutely love Adrian Smith and Karl Kopinski):

e26d99021a2fa9f2fef8d7cf1395e408.jpg.236067f533014d4164ddeac772571527.jpg

I really like the idea of playing Tzeentch army with a lot of Chaos Warriors, Knights, Tzaangors and Skyfires, supported by Wizaards and Greater Daeons (this is probably far from being tournament-level army, but that was never my intention anyway). Cult of the Thousand Eyes from the "Wrath of the Everchosen" book is definitely something that fits in this idea.

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Hi,

 

quick question regarding Kairos special rules.

 

From his warscroll: "In addition, while friendly Wizardsare wholly within 18" of him, Kairos Fateweaver knows any spells on those Wizards’ warscrolls that are possible for him to cast."

What does "that are possible for him to cast" really mean? What are some exceptions to this rule?

 

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A new player looking for some advice.

I have collected a disciples of tzeentch force that I intend to make a little less squishy with S2D units (warriors, knights, warshrine). I would also like to run the Phantasmagoria of fate battalion as I like the look of BoC units, and I would like to have a cygor as a mage sniper with fate dice. My questions are:

- Has anyone got experience of running this battalion with DoT? Or does its ability to give non wizard units a chance to dispel work too much against the summoning mechanic?

- Would I be better off taking a ghorgon than a cygor?

Any advice/anecdotes welcome and my apologies for the noob questions! 

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Hi! I would like to get your advice on starting a 1000 points tzeentch daemons army. I really don't want to be THAT GUY but I have been a fan of horrors and flamers since the old 2000 times. Reading this thread and other resources like goonhamer I think that Eternal conflagration is the easiest but more predictible way to go. 

In the end I arrived to two different armies and I don't know if the second one is in a more serious disadvantage. I really like my LoC model (it was a present from my wife, who will also be my more frequent opponent) and I would like to use it, but between this and the horror units I don't have that much points wiggle room I guess.

Army 1

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- General
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)

Total: 970 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 45

Army 2

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 41

So what would you change. Are they viable?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Edited by Prometheo567
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