Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[LLV]

Yeah I’m really excited over the shake up.hopefully will give some other armies time to shine. I think Sylvanth in particular will be strong. Also I’ve not seen anyone mention it yet but it also adds a disadvantage to the mixed soup armies through the battalion command point thing. Hopefully that and skinks not being universal battleline will mean other things can be pointed more accurately in their factions. Kurnoth hunters are a good example of something that was great in its faction but too good in a mix, now there are other factors at play so they can be adjusted to take that into account. 

[Chikout]

I fully believe that you have heard accurate stuff @LLV. I just hope whoever told you was wrong about the charges going first rule. It’s the one rumoured change that I think would be straight up bad for the game.

it stands out even more because all the changes we have seen so far have been pretty good, and have adjusted the game with a fairly light touch.

[Grimnaud]

1 minute ago, Chikout said:

I fully believe that you have heard accurate stuff @LLV. I just hope whoever told you was wrong about the charges going first rule. It’s the one rumoured change that I think would be straight up bad for the game.

it stands out even more because all the changes we have seen so far have been pretty good, and have adjusted the game with a fairly light touch.

Charges going first would be the same as fixing a squeaky door by remodeling the entire house. With the double turn it would drastically change the way the game is played. But I guess we'll see in time. I'm with Vince Venturella on having faith in GW and the playtesters.

[Nullius]

I think there’s a good chance that the main rule-book will come with a couple of generic warscroll-battalions into which any warscroll can be plugged. This may work very much like detachments in 40k. There may be a patrol battalion. (Say, one HQ and 3 battline), a big battalion. (3 heroes, 4 battline 1 behemoth) etc. this would be a good way to incentivize balances list building with command point resources. Likely these will only work if the keyword in common is not one of the grab alliance keywords, dis incentivizing soup-lists.

[Jamopower]

39 minutes ago, Chikout said:

I fully believe that you have heard accurate stuff @LLV. I just hope whoever told you was wrong about the charges going first rule. It’s the one rumoured change that I think would be straight up bad for the game.

it stands out even more because all the changes we have seen so far have been pretty good, and have adjusted the game with a fairly light touch.

I heartily agree. At least for now this keeps my motivation up for painting Lord of the Rings models, but I'll wait and see hoe it'll turn out in the end.

I'm also 99% certain that free summoning will evolve into at least one tier 1 combo, evrn if it'll mostly be okay to meh. 

Edit. On the other hand, I don't believe the command points will have a massive impact to how the gane is played. It'll open up some combos, but especially if the artefacts are bought with command points like it looks like, which would mean that the batallions would work more or less like now, for most armies it will be a quite minor change. 

[Captain Marius]

2 minutes ago, Nullius said:

I think there’s a good chance that the main rule-book will come with a couple of generic warscroll-battalions into which any warscroll can be plugged. This may work very much like detachments in 40k. There may be a patrol battalion. (Say, one HQ and 3 battline), a big battalion. (3 heroes, 4 battline 1 behemoth) etc. this would be a good way to incentivize balances list building with command point resources. Likely these will only work if the keyword in common is not one of the grab alliance keywords, dis incentivizing soup-lists.

Ive seen a few suggestions along these lines, and while im in favour, i think its worth noting this would require creating a more formal battlefield role for every unit in the game. Currently theres no such thing as battleline/leader/behemoth etc in 2 thirds of the game.

Sidebar - its weird the main idoneth guys have an ability to share battle traits with Allies... who also only exist in 1 of the 3 ways to play...

[Karol]

Well as long as blades of khorn will have a more efficient way to generate summoning points then others, I will be super happy. The idea behind summoning itself seems cool. I hope it will either be supper OP, so I won't have to worry what others think, or will be balanced in some way, if it is on the weaker side, so that people don't get too upset.

I really can't wait for the khorn blades write up.

[LLV]

Legion of sacrament ‘masters teachings’ will be an actual cool ability now!

[Nikobot]

So summoning no longer requires reinforcement points.. seems like it could have a huge impact. 

The new legions of nagash allegiance abilities allow for the summoning of an entire unit that was previously destroyed in the battle.

Bringing back an entire unit seems quite impactful.

Wonder if there is another balancing factor?

 do people think this could be tricky to get right?

[Aeryenn]

I also expect a discount in points for battalions. If we look at the most recent, so DoK and Idoneth, they don't have battalions over 140 points (and with Legions of Nagash there is one 160, the rest is lower). There are so many battalions that need a discount. Most of them. 

[Inqy]

3 minutes ago, Nikobot said:

So summoning no longer requires reinforcement points.. seems like it could have a huge impact. 

The new legions of nagash allegiance abilities allow for the summoning of an entire unit that was previously destroyed in the battle.

Bringing back an entire unit seems quite impactful.

Wonder if there is another balancing factor?

 do people think this could be tricky to get right?

The article didn't say summoning no longer requires reinforcement points. It said that Hosts of Slaanesh could use Depravity points to summon without reinforcements.

Now obviously from this we can draw the conclusion that GW is open to giving factions summoning methods that don't require leaving reinforcement points available, but that doesn't automatically mean that all previous methods of summoning no longer require reinforcements.

[Nikobot]

Yes, that's a fair point. Maybe some do and some don't. 

Would seem a little inconsistent if it was like that though. 

[Jamopower]

Doesn't Nurgle and Khorne summoning already work more or less similarly and the end part: " They’re not the only faction to be receiving summoning changes, either…"

sure feels like the tzeentch and seraphon will follow. 

[Nikobot]

Yes they do. And I'm fully expecting them to not require reinforcement points either. 

Death is a little different without a generation mechanic. Though being an army traditionally associated with summoning it seems strange they might need reinforcement points and others wouldn't, shrug.

Im just trying to think how much impact this might have. 

[Elmir]

Death seems to be designed about resurrecting dead units and not so much about creating new ones. 

Also, I'm curious to see what they do with FEC now... They summon units using their command abilities mostly, without a build-up mechanic behind it. Ghoul patrol is already quite a good battalion, with some other really cheap ones, so these changes might put them back on the map again. 

[Jamopower]

Maybe there is no upper limit for the raised addon models. That would be really broken though, so hope not. Also I think it's already covered in the rules of the grave markers. 

[ledha]

Charge-go-first would make murderhost and co absolutely horrible to face

[Twitch of Izalith]

49 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Also, I'm curious to see what they do with FEC now... They summon units using their command abilities mostly, without a build-up mechanic behind it. Ghoul patrol is already quite a good battalion, with some other really cheap ones, so these changes might put them back on the map again. 

I would be happy if they just made Horrors and Flayers Battleline - the list I want to run has 1 big unit of ghouls, 1 Flayers and 1 Horrors but at the moment I have 2 spend 200 points on 2 x 10 ghouls to run it that way legally.

Armies like FEC have enough problems compared to the more recent Battletomes without stupid restrictions to what they can take!

[Aelfric]

I wonder if allied heroes can use their command abilities using command points?

For example, an Orruk Boss on Wyvern allied to Ironjaws.

[BunkhouseBuster]

I just realized something about the new command points thing...

- points generated each turn

- those points are used by the leader and hero type models as a resource to be spent

- these provide buffs and debuffs to the models on the table

BY SIGMAR, it is the Focus mechanic from Warmachine!  NOOOOO!  We do NOT need Age of Sigmar turning into Warmahordes.  GW and PP have swapped places over the past 5 years, I do not want them switching back!

[Jamopower]

Legions of Nagash sound like big winners considering what we know now. They have pretty useful batallions and plenty of good command traits, they have summoning, double turn is bad for them and if the chargers go first, they have all the screening in the world and plenty of very hitty flying monsters and units to spring over the screen when the time is due. 

[BURF1]

16 minutes ago, BunkhouseBuster said:

I just realized something about the new command points thing...

- points generated each turn

- those points are used by the leader and hero type models as a resource to be spent

- these provide buffs and debuffs to the models on the table

BY SIGMAR, it is the Focus mechanic from Warmachine!  NOOOOO!  We do NOT need Age of Sigmar turning into Warmahordes.  GW and PP have swapped places over the past 5 years, I do not want them switching back!

LoL, next thing you know they be adding other warmachine mechanics like 'moving models' or 'using unit abilities to do things that would normally not be allowed by the core rules' .

[Blueraven84]

Just let me know before sky falls and peeps burn their models on Youtube so I can rescue them...

[AlphaKennyThing]

I have adjusted the first page to reflect what we know for sure right now, with no speculation added. Many of you will notice that it amounts to the square root of absolutely jack poop. I urge people whole-heartedly to remind themselves of how little we know before sounding the doom bells and pulling the eject lever from the hobby.

To throw in another opinion on the Command Points front, I really don't think it's going to be that big a deal. If you play casually, and enjoy narrative games just using Matched Play guides to get some balance, I think the impact of Command Points is going to be negligible. It'll make things a bit more interesting, but it's not going to invalidate your army because you have no battalions, or your battalions are ******. Many people have said so already, and are correct - most people play one battalion, two at most. It's not going to be that big a deal. Even less so if they introduce some generic battalions for each faction made up of keywords you can slot units into.

On the Matched Play front, it's going to be a bit tasty. If there is indeed a shift to chargers fight first (which I think there needs to be, personally) then the whole way armies are constructed is going to change. Couple that with no shooting out of combat, you're going to have to screen your ranged units. Bummer, that sounds awfully akin to actual warfare, time to burn all my GW products!

[Gotrek]

3 hours ago, Nikobot said:

So summoning no longer requires reinforcement points.. seems like it could have a huge impact. 

The new legions of nagash allegiance abilities allow for the summoning of an entire unit that was previously destroyed in the battle.

Bringing back an entire unit seems quite impactful.

Wonder if there is another balancing factor?

 do people think this could be tricky to get right?

For death the balancing factor is that:

1) its a command ability usable only by the general

2) you have to be within 9" of a gravesite

3) unit has to be summonable (so no hard hitters, just volume of attacks)

4) i may be wrong on this but if i remember right the unit that got resurrected still has to be wholly within 9" of the site and 9" from the enemy so zoning will be relatively easy (you know, with a whole 4 places on the board we can do this from)