Twitch of Izalith

Slightly worried about my Legends order as Morathi dropped from the available models on Wednesday last week after only 4 days of availability. The Facebook team were replying to people "We can't make any more of that model" without any explanation. They must have had a shedload of orders! Hopefully they will fulfil orders already placed before that. @Karol no offence, but your local gaming scene sounds really horrible. I'm not sure why anyone would even want to get involved in that! Can you not find anyone with a more relaxed attitude and just play games with them?

We would have found a way to make the queue last even longer by being polite but inefficient - its what we do. The best example - at the complete opposite end of the scale from toilet paper - is if you go to a ski resort in scotland (yes there are a couple of small ones) everyone queues for the lifts in a very orderly manner and when one line gets to long somebody starts a second line next to it so as not to get in the way of people who are actually skiing. If someone gets confused and joins the wrong line everyone looks at them disapprovingly and talks loudly to each other about it instead of just explaining to the person... particularly if they are a snowboarder. Its hilarious, annoying and takes a really long time. In France or Italy everyone just shuffles towards the lifts in a disorderly scrum and pushes children out of the way and stuff and everybody gets on the lift in no time - even the children Totally off topic, I know. I'll apologise because I'm British. And I suppose thats the bit thats on topic - Warhammer is a very British game. Its based on a social contract between 2 people - a gentlemans agreement if you like and if you play it with that in mind - that the point is that you both enjoy playing a game with some models you spent hundreds of £ buying and hundreds of hours building and painting, you will have a fun few hours whatever system you use to choose armies. In that context the release of the Warhammer legends warscrolls should make sense but basically they did it because lots of people asked for rules for their WFB armies in the community survey. The limited re-release of the models is simply a way to capitalise on the work financially as well as in a PR sense - and possibly a way to justify the use of resources to the management.

I don't get the really competitive people. The games have never really been designed to played competitively, and to be honest if you are THAT competitive why would you play warhammer to get your ego hit? Why wouldn't you play a truly competitive game? or do sports or something? I don't get what satisfaction there is to be gained from winning at something that is barely a real competition in the first place? You are just kidding yourself. So for example. The nerdy thing I love as much as warhammer is the Dark Souls series of video games - and Souls players tend to think of themselves as kinda hardcore gamers because the game (early editions anyway) is a little challenging to get into. I used to get really pleased with myself in online multiplayer until I met some gamers who describe Souls as "a combat game for people who aren't good enough to play a real fighting game" LOL i wasn't at all offended but it was a bit of an eye opener for my perspective on these things. I'm not saying I don't think skill is involved - its certainly possible to be a good player or a bad player - but their is enough imbalance and random elements that the results of a game can never be truly claimed as the sole responsibility of the players. To achieve that you would need unit types with identical rules and stat lines and combat results would have to be based on numerical absolutes - not dice. I always play to win - Its a battle afterall - but if I was interested in "Smashing peoples faces" (being a term I have heard tournament players use) I would get into boxing..

You could use that statement to invalidate every argument for GW doing anything rules or lore wise. We all have the option to make it up ourselves amongst our immediate gaming group. I already stated several times that I still play WFB and that I play AoS set in the old world as much as I play AoS set in the Mortal realms. What I'm excited about is that GW are doing something which expands and enriches a way that I like to enjoy the game. Official rules and supplements also make those types of games more accessible to a wider audience and open up opportunities for me to play a greater variety of gamers - not just people in my immediate group who are signed up to a set of house rules. I'm also really excited by what they are doing with standard matched play - the last 4 battletomes have been massively encouraging for the future of pick up and tournament games with a greater degree of flavour, balance and build options than ever before. However 2000 points matched play is not the only way to play even if its the easiest and least requiring of imagination - so forgive me for enjoying other aspects of the game. Its a bit disappointing to see comments around the internet which all basically boil down to "this is not interesting to me personally, therefore its a waste of GW's time" The fact they are investing resources into making legacy armies and settings more playable and accessible to everyone is surprising and much appreciated by many people.

Even if its just revised warscrolls for all the WFB army lists its enough to give everybody that wants it the opportunity to play games set in the warhammer world with the warhammer races - but using a modern and relevant rule set. Having multiple settings and multiple versions of armies available is a positive thing.

Its not dead, its just in the Matrix now . More people play Total War than play AoS.... and there are still some of us playing the tabletop version of WFB. I don't think anyone wants them to bring the game back - not the mechanics of it anyway, but the setting is still massively popular and since many of the current models are still compatible (having originated there) there could be a substantial benefit in bringing out a "Battles in the World that Was" supplement for AoS. I would buy it. So would a lot of people.

I really think the massive outcry over the lack of a points system when AoS came out was more of a failing of the community rather than GW. We criticised them for expecting US to be able to agree on a balanced army composition for 2 armies in a single game but we expect THEM to be able to balance all units in all armies in all battleplans for all games. Having said that I do enjoy the structure of a points system (or power levels or ranks or a force organisation chart or whatever) so that I can plan armies without having a conversation first. List writing (or army building as I usually call it) is an enjoyable part of the hobby on its own. I get why they have no AoS matched play points but I think it would be great to have Warhammer legends matched play points for evryone out there who is most comfortable with a points based system - which is probably the majority of gamers. The Warhammer Fantasy setting is still massively popular - as sales of the Total War video game will testify - and just because the story of the world came to an end it doesn't mean you still can't use it for games. As a comparison you don't hear Bolt Action players moaning that world war 2 is over. @The Golem I hear you on the Corsairs. There are some minor nerfs to a couple of other core units too but I think that's perfectly in keeping with writing AoS rules for an Old World Faction where the troops were more distinct from the elites (who all got better) Many factions in AoS are basically ALL elites so I really like this design. This is where having points would be great because you could be saying "ok they are not as good but they are cheap so I can take more of them" or similar. Also agreed on the spells a gameplay perspective - multiple casts of Word of Pain could be very powerful. I really hope they keep up the level of quality for the other factions - particularly the Tomb kings and Bretonians for the sake of all the fans of those armies. I guess it will depend on the level of sales and the feedback they get.

Forget Idoneth Deepkin has anyone checked out Battletome Dark Elves for Warhammer Legends yet? I couldn't be happier to see sets of official rules coming out for WFB armies and its a bonus that they started with the Druchii The rules are usual GW hit and miss but at first glance they look pretty good and I think the army will play like a Dark Elf Army again. The Rules for Malekith and Morathi are pretty good - Malekith has a spell which is actually scary (same rules at bloodwrack stare shooting attack but 18" range) and Hellebron gets unique rules instead of just copying over the Death Hag or Slaughter Queen from DoK. Malus Darkblade gets some fluffy rules for being possesed by Tz'arkan which is cool, Lokhir Fellheart is in there, All good stuff for dark elf fans My main dissapointment was the sorceresses. They all get a new ability - Hekarti's blessing - which allows them to slay a friendly model within 3" for +2 to cast but they all get the same spell!! word of pain. Even in the compendium the sorceress on cold one or pegasus got a different spell (though chillwind was a BAD spell at least it was variety!) Now they all have the same spell if they are on foot, riding a cold one, pegasus or black dragon. I was really hoping each Legends army would come with some AoS versions of the WFB spell lores and artifacts + some allegiance abilities but I guess that was asking a bit much. Quite a few of the units are subtley improved from their AoS counterparts in Darkling covens etc. Some are just flat out better! Some highlights for me are: Shadowblade - works how an assassin should work and actually has a good chance to take someone out when he reveals himself! Even the standard assassin is better than the shadowblade version - gaining -1 rend and D3 damage all the time not just against characters. Cold one Knights - actualy get rend when they charge as well as +1 to wound and +1 damage (a small change I know but they are so useless in Order Serpentis) Black Guard - Do 2 damage which makes them AWESOME and only get their re-rolls to hit if Malekith is on the table which is a nice narrative addition. Executioners - hit on 4+ instead of 3+ BUT get -2 rend and 2 damage instead of no rend and one damage - I know which I prefer! Its also fair to mention that some of the more core units are a little worse than the Mortal Realms equivalent - losing weapons, special abilities and unit size bonuses. Overall though all the units look like they will behave the way you would want them to on the tabletop - apart from the sorceresses who are a bit weak still but you have Malekith and Morathi for magical offence and can take a couple of others for Mystic shields etc - and word of pain is a good spell particularly in narrative when you can cast it multiple times. I can't wait to get a game with this army. I can honestly say i'm more excited about it than I have been for any of the recent battletomes which have all been excellent. I might have a go at putting some points values together for them because we all like points don't we? Even for friendly/narrative games I hope the community will come together to create resources for all the Warhammer Legends armies as they get released. So what's everyone else's thoughts? Did anyone pick up any legendary dark elves in the pre-order? I was stoked to see Mengils Manflayers so had to buy them even though I already blew my hobby budget on a Wraithknight this month. What do people think about Legends in general and will you be playing it going forward? Personally I will be playing these games more than I will play with Mortal Realms factions if I can.

@TheWildRide I'm currently running a unit of 20 and a unit of 10 - all with whips and bucklers. Thats more to do with what models I have to be honest - I have been playing DoK for about a year and they only came with bucklers and whips before the Battletome. Having said that, I think thats my preferred loadout anyway, the 2 inch reach on the whips is really versatile - you can usually hit with all 30 models if you are running 30's or you can pile in behind other combats and strike acsross 2 rows of other models on 25mm bases or 1 row of 40mm. I like the bucklers for giving a bit more defence - you can make them reasonably tough by stacking benefits from the Bloodshield, Mystic Shield, terrain etc if you need to. I also really enjoy game mechanics that allow you to reflect damage and although you need a 6 it still takes out a few models over the course of a game. Unit size is a bit tricky because they work in all unit sizes! I find 30's a bit unwieldy both from a game and practicality perspective (particularly with whips cos they stick out a lot and hook onto things) I think I will probably just stick with what I have for now but you can fit 2 x 30 and 2 x 30 witch elves in a Slaughter Troupe list at 2000 points and that's possibly one of the most competitive ways to build it - If you are confident moving 120 models that can retreat and charge!! Not a very interesting list for hobby and more casual games though! So yeah big fan of the sisters and I have some in every list - the 6" pile in is great and the more you play the more you will figure out things to do with it. You cant really go wrong with unit sizes and weapons - although if you want to play big units of 30 take whips. Otherwise I would base your choice on what your witches have. If you have a unit of witches with bucklers you can afford to take a unit of sisters with knives etc the point is don't take a whole army of bucklers or a whole army with daggers. DoK scales really well too so you can get a 1000 points on the table and work out tactics that will still play the same when you scale up to bigger units and 2000 points

+1 for that opinion. I have been doing really well with Draichi Ganeth /Slaughter Troupe. Its not easy to play quickly as you can end up moving large units multiple times as you retreat and charge to get the temple bonus or to engage a different unit but it gives you an amazing amount of flexibility coupled with devastating combat punch. Gaunt summoner is a bit of a challenge. The only game I have lost so far (played 7 games at this point with Draichi & 2 with Khailebron/Temple Nest) was against a list with 2 Gaunt Summoners backed up by a balewind, Treacherous Bond and Brimstone Horror bubble wrap.

Oh great, more dwarves that are impossible to kill. Because that was the one thing missing from the game....

@Kaleun Yeah I was just comparing them to other cavalry in general really. They are less points efficient than every other heavy cav unit I looked at. I really like the models too - though my drakespawn came out a bit too bright green. I need to dull them down with a couple more layers of wash. I do have a chariot but its still in the box so I haven't had a chance to try it out yet. This is true. They are quite a solid unit If you get mystic shield on them its really good! its their offensive capability that's lacking. Maybe i'm just playing them badly but I have never managed to achieve much with them.

I have definitely gone back to the drawing board with an Anvilguard army since the errata. Moving away from Darkilng Covens and more towards Order Serpentis + fulminators. are drakespawn knights overcosted or am I missing something? Dragon blades have better stats for 20 points less, Goregruntas have way better stats for 20 points less! I guess they made the boxes before they realised they were going to have to nerf it to GA Order !

I wonder if the idea behind the tiny subfactions was to give them lots more options for places to go in the future? Because at the moment it is certainly having an effect on the variety of armies out there. e.g. If warherds and brayherds were the same faction I can imagine we would be seeing a lot more brayherd armies - Ambushing ghorgons would be sweeeet

I think the iniative roll adds to the character of the game - whether you have positive opinions of it or not. If players are looking for accurate military/combat simulation then AoS is probably not a good place to look! @Auticus In the game you describe I would argue there was an opportunity to set up another unit to block you from the one with the artefact so in that respect i agree with @Andreas that the initiative roll does add another layer to the decisions you make and things you need to plan for. I also agree with you that the results of that roll can sometimes leave you feeling like a passenger - it feels disconnected from your units & characters but can have a massive impact on them. I don't think alternate activation would work in AoS. Many units - and whole armies - depend on effective use of multiple synergies and if you have to spend 4 activations setting up one unit to make it work it would massively swing the power balance to units that don't rely on synergies, and to characters (who would be able to move/fight/shoot in the same activation as applying a buff to themselves) then we would all just moan about that instead I hope that if any changes are made that they are minor and that they stay in the rules and out of war-scrolls so they apply evenly to everyone.

Its a new Lord of Change

Wow an opportunity for that ability to actually be useful!! I still think they messed that up in the GA Order book. I don't get why you would charge in your hero phase normally - not when you get to move closer and then charge. now, if it was your opponents hero phase... @Kaleun Really like your Serpentis Anvilguard list! I was keen to do something like that because I love those dark rider models. I would have also liked to do a Serpentis / Draconis one. Dragonblades look great converted and painted into dark elf heavy cav - some weapon and shield swaps is all it takes. I have a box waiting for an excuse In the end I am trying to do something with stormcast in it - they have some dragons. I will post it on here later.

Yeah implacable march is very situational but could throw up some opportunistic advantages. Its biggest benefit is being able to potentially get your missile troops out of combat for a game turn and for driving units off objectives.

I'm not generally one of those people that likes to moan about the commercial side of what GW do but it really hacks me off that more than 2 years into AoS they still supply models for use in that game with bases intended for use in a game they discontinued. I understand that it would not be practical for them to physically repack everything with round bases but throwing them in in a separate pack would be easy. Its annoying to add £3 to the cost of every kit - particularly when you know that these things must cost them a tiny fraction of a penny each in the volumes they are are having made. It would be a really positive gesture if they would just provide the appropriate base when you order from the webstore. On the + side thanks to all in TGA for making this resource - its really helpful!