Chikout Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 The points changes are too light a touch but most of the changes they did make are good. I have a feeling they just wanted to see if they could get away with just changing the amulet for Sons. The unleash hell change is a slight nerf to shooting generally. I think the light hand on the top end of the meta is good. It's the bottom end that has issues this edition and these minor changes are not enough to help gitz, Slaanesh, beasts, Khorne and Nighthaunt. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Neverchosen said: At 100 a pop I expect to see this more often! Gnoblars unite! Well maybe not you specifically but most Ogor player I follow or know hate Gnoblars and they will never put them in their army 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyadventurer Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) Well that looks like the final nail in my Khorne army. My poor Arbaal on Karkadrak kitbash... Edited December 21, 2021 by boyadventurer 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Let's also not ignore the fact that Flesh Eaters and Nighthaunt can now use Nagash. That's a pretty cool change in my books! Kragnos staying at 720 but getting a big glow-up was probably the right move. His 3D6 charge aura is miles better than any of the rules he lost, and he learned how to count as 30 models AND be immune to auto-kill effects from his Mega-Gargant buddies. The 6++ is nice too. Worth 720 or not is hard to say (I'm sure that 3D6 charge with 18" max range ability is probably a good enough reason now) but at least as a Sons of Behemat player I'm much more inclined to give him a look-in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chikout said: minor changes are not enough to help gitz, Slaanesh, beasts, Khorne and Nighthaunt. Even better they made big nerfs to beasts if you use the coalition rules that GW themselves invented. "Here's rules for a different way to play! But you shouldn't." 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosen_of_khaine Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 57 minutes ago, Zeblasky said: Archaon and Nagash now can be killed reasonably (aka without 60 Lumineth Archers) Sentinels are terrible against Archaon and Nagash due to their 4+ wards vs Mortal Wounds. Also, I haven't seen a single competitive lists that brings 60 sentinels. I'm going to pick on you for a sec here so I apologize, but comments like this are everywhere on AoS forums, completely exaggerating both the output and misinterpreting/misrepresenting the actual issues with the game right now - to the point that hating on certain armies/units is a complete meme lacking any actual constructive commentary. The increasing popularity of content creators like Vince Venturella (who is way overconfident in his often bad takes) leads to opinions about top level comptetive play trickling down to casual players who don't understand the game well enough to be criticizing balance. /rant Anyways, I think +20 points and the unleash hell nerf will bring Sentinels to a good place competitively. 6 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Top tier got almost 0 changes. Vampires got nagash deleted but had other lists without nagash at their level. Demons got archaon nerfed but had other list at his level as belakor as continue at top without nerf. Lumineths a slight nerf of 30\40 points in a 2000 list wont change nothing. Morathi alo a 30 nerf in the list wont change nothimg and got a buff in morathi Behemats 0 nerfs, and even a buff in points Ironjaws a sligth nerf to gruntas wont change nothing Only seraphons got a bigger nerf with the list of spam salamanders gettimg a big increase but the list with spam triceratops was close to his level. Stormcast,have units as fulminators heavily undercowted but 0 nerfs and other units as twin dragon useless that didnt get any buff But meanwhile middle tier list as any with gotrek or irondrakes got a big nerf. Makes sense. Seriously is the worst balance update never done,no changes in top tier meta but nerfs to middle tiers. I guess when gw hears the playtesters as tye famous youtuver that is a sc hater and got nerfed the dragons even if he never played with sc makes sense these balance update 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jaskier said: Let's also not ignore the fact that Flesh Eaters and Nighthaunt can now use Nagash. That's a pretty cool change in my books! I think Nagash in Nighthaunt has real potential. At least on the surface, he seems quite good in that army. Nighthaunt don't have any other WIZARD HERO MONSTER, so he definitely fills a niche there. Since he's the only model in the army able to benefit from All-Out Defense and Mystic Shield, he will be sitting on a 2+ ignore rend -1 a lot of the time. If you run Emerald Host, he can get a unit of Hexwraith bodyguards, too. The Nighthaunt spell lore also seems kinda nice. It will remain to be seen if the rest of what Nighthaunt bring to the table is good enough to make a Nagash list competitive, but it's at least a cool option in semi-competitive games, I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Jaskier said: You're massively overblowing the Irondrake change. It's 10 points. Some of the Cities' worst units (their non-Phoenix monster heroes) got chunky drops to offset it. lol GW ain't tricking me into bringing a griffon at those prices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doko said: Vampires got nagash deleted but had other lists without nagash at their level. What's the big nerf you are seeing for Nagash in Soulblight? Just the removal of his reroll 1s to save command? Because him not benefitting from allegiance abilites is not really a change in Soulblight. He only loses his 6+ ward for non-mortals and Locus of Shyish, as far as I can tell. Neither of those changes seem make-or-break to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, NauticalSoup said: lol GW ain't tricking me into bringing a griffon at those prices. With the White Dwarf mount trait (instead of dying, teleport out of combat on a 2+ and heal d3), I think the Freeguild General on Griffin is looking pretty good right now, actually. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyhedberg Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, zilberfrid said: I can't find much in the post because the site is a mess, did the Sentinels receive a huge nerf this FAQ or did GW make a mistake reducing their points? Sorry! Meant expensive, not cheaper! Sorry! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Doko said: Top tier got almost 0 changes. Vampires got nagash deleted but had other lists without nagash at their level. Demons got archaon nerfed but had other list at his level as belakor as continue at top without nerf. Lumineths a slight nerf of 30\40 points in a 2000 list wont change nothing. Morathi alo a 30 nerf in the list wont change nothimg and got a buff in morathi Behemats 0 nerfs, and even a buff in points Ironjaws a sligth nerf to gruntas wont change nothing Only seraphons got a bigger nerf with the list of spam salamanders gettimg a big increase but the list with spam triceratops was close to his level. Stormcast,have units as fulminators heavily undercowted but 0 nerfs and other units as twin dragon useless that didnt get any buff But meanwhile middle tier list as any with gotrek or irondrakes got a big nerf. Makes sense. Seriously is the worst balance update never done,no changes in top tier meta but nerfs to middle tiers. I guess when gw hears the playtesters as tye famous youtuver that is a sc hater and got nerfed the dragons even if he never played with sc makes sense these balance update Playing 40k at the same time as Sigmar it really is night and day the quality of developer attention the games see. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: With the White Dwarf mount trait (instead of dying, teleport out of combat on a 2+ and heal d3), I think the Freeguild General on Griffin is looking pretty good right now, actually. Or -and hear me out- you could pay the additional points to bring a phoenix which can't be killed in the first place 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: What's the big nerf you are seeing for Nagash in Soulblight? Just the removal of his reroll 1s to save command? Because him not benefitting from allegiance abilites is not really a change in Soulblight. He only loses his 6+ ward for non-mortals and Locus of Shyish, as far as I can tell. Neither of those changes seem make-or-break to me. He lost the 6++ that is huge together with reroll saves of 1. So only nagash got a HUGE nerf in survivality. Also the reason that he was in these list was due to give reroll 1 to hit,saves and inmune to moral to blood knigths and all this was lost. 1k points for only 8 spells(with very high chance to double 1) and 16 wounds is a garbagge,his stats are closer to 700, he was used in competitive due to be a huge strength multiplier to blood knigths while being almost unkillable. Now he is kilable and bring nothing to buff blood knigths so he is useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, NauticalSoup said: Or -and hear me out- you could pay the additional points to bring a phoenix which can't be killed in the first place 😛 Let's do a cost benefit analysis: + Frostheart Phoenix can't be killed - There's an elf on top Seems like a wash to me 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayul Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Nighthaunt don't have any other WIZARD HERO MONSTER Nighthaunt can already ally powerful Soulblight Gravelords heroes like Mannfred or Radukar + Dire Wolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, The Red King said: Well the rules change I so eagerly awaited instead guts my army. Khorne marked beasts as a coalition unit gain no benefit for being taken in blades of khorne. Thank god GW stopped the terrible rules abuse that was beasts of beasts Can you explain a bit why? Didn't read all the FAQs and I don't know how coalition work now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Let's do a cost benefit analysis: + Frostheart Phoenix can't be killed - There's an elf on top Seems like a wash to me Oh no- I have no retort. I humbly concede the point. Guess I have to buy a Griffin now... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsumy Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 i think someone in gw forgot only 1 solar basti in 1 faction spending 1cp can shot 2 times and pointed like that... 250p for 6dmg with 1rend in average????? that scrool would cost 160-200p max. but suure u get lot of buffs, cps,army traith only to buff him etc etc and u double that.... amy unit in any army could do that, and u dont balance them like that? same on salamanders, they do average 3,2 dmg with 2rend, for 140p???? i dont see that so impressive, sure they could be 2 doing 6,6 and even charging! doing others 6 or so. but even then 280p for that? too expensive math wise. problem is seraphons havent ANY 2rend in all tome so salamanders will be used even at 200p, where are the improved rend on trex. or drop points in every saurus unit or halve troglodon points?? at least they got what they wanted, tzench will go down, seraphon will drop down. and giants and orcs will free reign, with dok,stc,vampires etc going up 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Kragnos has just turned this meta on it’s head. Hes going to be in every destruction list slingshotting ogors/gargants/goregruntas at you from 18” away on 3d6. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said: Oh no- I have no retort. I humbly concede the point. Guess I have to buy a Griffin now... The griffin is a glorious model, and gives you a free Warmage and regular General with minimal kitbashing. Another concession would be to ebay the High elf Griffin, which dies quick and is an elf. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Kitsumy said: i think someone in gw forgot only 1 solar basti in 1 faction spending 1cp can shot 2 times and pointed like that... 250p for 6dmg with 1rend in average????? that scrool would cost 160-200p max. but suure u get lot of buffs, cps,army traith only to buff him etc etc and u double that.... amy unit in any army could do that, and u dont balance them like that? same on salamanders, they do average 3,2 dmg with 2rend, for 140p???? i dont see that so impressive, sure they could be 2 doing 6,6 and even charging! doing others 6 or so. but even then 280p for that? too expensive math wise. problem is seraphons havent ANY 2rend in all tome so salamanders will be used even at 200p, where are the improved rend on trex. or drop points in every saurus unit or halve troglodon points?? at least they got what they wanted, tzench will go down, seraphon will drop down. and giants and orcs will free reign, with dok,stc,vampires etc going up Play 6 salamanders and get back to us 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyhedberg Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 minute ago, zilberfrid said: The griffin is a glorious model, and gives you a free Warmage and regular General with minimal kitbashing. Another concession would be to ebay the High elf Griffin, which dies quick and is an elf. I like the griffin since you get Karl Franz! It also looks more stable as a miniature compared to the dark elf dragon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I'm out of the loop, but isn't Brokk a lot cheaper now? That awesome model deserves time on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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