Ben Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 The Age Of Sigmar Batlescroll is here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/introducing-battlescroll-the-first-regular-rules-update-for-warhammer-age-of-sigmar What do we think to the winter balance update? Highlights are: New war scrolls for some of the Gods of AoS Points adjustments on various scrolls Rules changes to the Heroic Recovery and Unleash Hell abilities and the Amulet of Destiny item. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyhedberg Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) When they wrote "Gods" I thought they would also include the Elven gods. I like that they made eltharion cheaper. And I totally understand that sentinels got more expensive! Edited December 21, 2021 by Howdyhedberg Wrote cheaper sentinels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Worst balance never done by gw ever. Top armys: Gargants 0 changes or nerf Dok 0 changes or nerf,even some buffs Tzenth no nerf for kairos or lord of change Seraphons a sligth nerf to salamdres Sc dont get any nerf even broken units as fulminators or raptors(and useless units as twin dragons domt get any buff) Ironjaws that are the top army didnt get even close to any nerf,only a sligth nerf to gruntas But middle tier armys as citys got a huge nerf to irondrakes,gotrek got a 50!!!! Nerf when teclis or morathi didnt get any change 4 3 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Howdyhedberg said: When they wrote "Gods" I thought they would also include the Elven gods. I like that they made eltharion cheaper. And I totally understand that sentinels got cheaper! I can't find much in the post because the site is a mess, did the Sentinels receive a huge nerf this FAQ or did GW make a mistake reducing their points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Doko said: Worst balance never done by gw ever. Top armys: Gargants 0 changes or nerf Dok 0 changes or nerf,even some buffs Tzenth no nerf for kairos or lord of change Seraphons a sligth nerf to salamdres Sc dont get any nerf even broken units as fulminators or raptors(and useless units as twin dragons domt get any buff) Ironjaws that are the top army didnt get even close to any nerf,only a sligth nerf to gruntas But middle tier armys as citys got a huge nerf to irondrakes,gotrek got a 50!!!! Nerf when teclis or morathi didnt get any change The Amulet change is actually a pretty notable nerf for Megas, as anything that makes them easier to kill helps solve the problem of beating them, and the 5++ even just for one of them was a big deterrent to that. The Heroic Recovery change doesn't hurt them so much as their low Bravery meant it was always pretty unreliable if they got to heal at all, but given how Megas spend most of their time, it's not necessarily an insignificant change for them either. Daughters got a 10 point increase on their Blood Stalkers, actually, and the Unleash Hell change affects them just as much as any shooting unit. I am surprised Morathi didn't get an increase, though. The biggest nerf that needed to happen for Tzeentch was very obviously Archaon, and Tzeentch Archaon got nerfed into the ground. That's going to hurt a lot of the top-performing Tzeentch lists. Will it solve the Legion of the First Prince problems? No, but this is a good step nonetheless. Gotrek was more popular than ever at 435, I think the 50 point increase might have been a tad too far given the Heroic Recovery change - I still think the big issue is him being usable in Hunters of the Heartlands - but most top players I know agreed he needed to be reigned in. You're massively overblowing the Irondrake change. It's 10 points. Some of the Cities' worst units (their non-Phoenix monster heroes) got chunky drops to offset it. This balance update did what GW said it would; it was aimed mostly at helping struggling units, and it reigned in some (not all) of the over-performing stuff. I think you'll find most would agree all or most of the changes are good, but it definitely would've been nice to get more of them. As a Slaanesh player especially, it's sad that we didn't get any drops on our Daemon units who need it more than the mortals, but I guess the GHB will solve that problem. Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 minute ago, zilberfrid said: I can't find much in the post because the site is a mess, did the Sentinels receive a huge nerf this FAQ or did GW make a mistake reducing their points? They got 20 points more expensive, I think the poster maybe confused them with the Alarith mountain-spirits (they and Avalenor both dropped significantly.) 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeblasky Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Quick summary: Archaon and Nagash now can be killed reasonably (aka without 60 Lumineth Archers), Nagash especially lost most of his usual heals. Heroic Recovery, Amulet and Unleash Hell nerfed pretty hard, Fulminators flew right under the radar and will continue to terrorize everything in SCE and Living City lists, while new big dragons sadly got nothing. Oh, and Kragnos has 6+ ward, hurrray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitionercity Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Doko said: Worst balance never done by gw ever. Top armys: Gargants 0 changes or nerf Dok 0 changes or nerf,even some buffs Tzenth no nerf for kairos or lord of change Seraphons a sligth nerf to salamdres Sc dont get any nerf even broken units as fulminators or raptors(and useless units as twin dragons domt get any buff) Ironjaws that are the top army didnt get even close to any nerf,only a sligth nerf to gruntas But middle tier armys as citys got a huge nerf to irondrakes,gotrek got a 50!!!! Nerf when teclis or morathi didnt get any change Write to them and tell them this - I think they need as much feedback as possible. Also if on twitter, talk to the lead designers (eg Phil Kelly, Ben Johnson, etc), and chat - politely - with them about it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 The kragnos, AoD, unleash hell, and heroic recoveru changes were good. I think the archaon and nagash ones are fine at first glance? The point changes are just disappointing. Gutrippaz unchanged All of bonesplitterz unchanged Despite being the weakest faction gitz didn't get a single meaningful point drop. There just don't seem to be many changes that are actually meaningful. The only two that jumped out at me were dragin ogors down 25, and tzeentch tzaangors down 20 (but thats what they costed in BoC) 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitionercity Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, zilberfrid said: I can't find much in the post because the site is a mess, did the Sentinels receive a huge nerf this FAQ or did GW make a mistake reducing their points? www.warhammer-community.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F12%2FXTPR7PzBSVcNAAOd.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Well the rules change I so eagerly awaited instead guts my army. Khorne marked beasts as a coalition unit gain no benefit for being taken in blades of khorne. Thank god GW stopped the terrible rules abuse that was beasts of chaos... 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jaskier said: Gotrek was more popular than ever at 435, I think the 50 point increase might have been a tad too far given the Heroic Recovery change - I still think the big issue is him being usable in Hunters of the Heartlands - but most top players I know agreed he needed to be reigned in. did someone (those top players or others) ever won a tournament with a list featuring Gotrek? +50pts seems more of a reaction to people commenting on twitter than to actual results or even meta presence 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Marcvs said: did someone (those top players or others) ever won a tournament with a list featuring Gotrek? +50pts seems more of a reaction to people commenting on twitter than to actual results or even meta presence I dunno about GT-winning lists necessarily but the consensus was that his interactions with Heroic Recovery and Hunters of the Heartland made him extremely strong, especially given his anti-meta potential in 3.0. He's definitely been popping up a lot more than he used to in the hands of good players. I think the Heroic Recovery change and removing the Hunters thing would've been enough without needing a points increase, personally. Mind you, reigning units like Gotrek in is well and good, but it also makes it even more unusual that similarly or more powerful units like Morathi didn't get any changes (in her case, she got a buff 😅) Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doko Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Yes,we have as 2000+ tournaments datas showing that gotrek isnt used in 5\0 lists,but he got a huge overner. Same data show how teclis, morathi have 90+% of playrate in top tier armys and got 0 nerfs even a buff! Or maw krusha is broken and a top tierarmy is even bringing two but got 0 nerfs.make sense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 So what did the skaven need: -a huge points decrease, across the whole faction -a increase in size for stormvermins and plague monks And what has gw to show for it, well basically nothing. the units that almost never saw the game, and are still to expensive, even for their now decreased cost, have gotten a miserable update, from all of those updated units I’m at least happy to say that 1 of them might see the table now. for the rest of the units, I guess they are just a lost call. as for a positive side, the amulet seems to have gotten a lot less attractive, which I personally do appreciate, Yes-yes 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boots468 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 How does Heroic Recovery change affect Gotrek? In my experience nothing survives within 3" of him... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Just now, boots468 said: How does Heroic Recovery change affect Gotrek? In my experience nothing survives within 3" of him... Definitely true for the most part; unfortunately, mine can be a bit...err...swingy 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NauticalSoup Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, boots468 said: How does Heroic Recovery change affect Gotrek? In my experience nothing survives within 3" of him... That was my first thought also lol. Where are people finding these units that can tarpit him? And why are they wasting such a good tarpit on Gotrek of all things? So many questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) I like the changes overall but I am not a competitive player but the ones we did get work well for my group. My favourite changes are the Amulet and Unleash Hell as I think it makes Amulet less of an auto include and Unleash Hell more about placement rather than arbitrarily measuring all nearby ranged units to see who can get a shot off. Personal gripe is that the change in points for Slaves to Darkness means I have to adjust my lists. But Gnoblars are cheaper and I am on a Gnoblar kick after building Hrothgorn’s Mantrappers... The biggest draw back for me is that I was thinking of picking up a copy of Wrath and Rapture but with the change to Coalition rules for Slaves to Darkness my idea of running a Legion of the First Prince, HoS and BoK armies are still doable only significantly worse. I still might go this direction but I am much less excited about the prospect as I will really need to rely on my Slaves to Darkness units to fill points. Well with the increase in Warshrine and sorcerror points maybe I will need less Slaves to Darkness to fill the ranks. I am also interested in the "Multiple Factions" designation. I wonder if we will see more units and characters fall under this banner, I feel like it should be kept to a small pool but it also feels oddly imbalanced with only order having a decently costed infantry model and lacking a big centre piece. If they expanded the concept I would like if each grand alliance had a Gotrek scale model and a centre piece. Also do the meage Gargants fit in this designation? A fun little off hand category that opens up a lot of possibilities while also maybe causing future headaches. Edited December 21, 2021 by Neverchosen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Kragnos seems interesting now though still kind of expensive, 3D6 charge for the army that uses him sounds pretty fun. they seem to ignore any direct change to the strong MW range units and went with point increase while it does have some impact they still at do their stick ( 30 inch range and Morathi shoot twice ability.) it may not be as bad though with the increase cost but amulet going to a 6 + probably makes them stronger again. The core game mechanic change all seems good. Point changes seems conservative, I can’t say many of my armies benefit from it. Seems like any army really struggling are just basically waiting for their new tomes and hope is not too experimental 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormblood Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jaskier said: Definitely true for the most part; unfortunately, mine can be a bit...err...swingy 😅 I believe you but I wish I could see video evidence of this. that must be SOME rolling. Ive only seen the little guy melt anything he catches as well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) I was hoping there would be clarification on summoning Awakened Wildwoods in non Sylvaneth armies (see my question below) - but alas no. Edited December 21, 2021 by EntMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaskier Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Stormblood said: I believe you but I wish I could see video evidence of this. that must be SOME rolling. Ive only seen the little guy melt anything he catches as well. Back in 5th Edition 40k, I once rolled ten 1s out of ten dice for my Grey Knight Paladins' 2+ armour saves, exactly killing the entire unit...from hurricane bolter shots. For reference, that's like killing a save-stacked Archaon at max health with 20 Gnoblars. I think that best sums up my Gotrek pain 🥴 Derail aside, I agree Gotrek shouldn't have been slapped with +50 points (I think maybe +20/30) especially considering what else didn't change (Morathi is probably the most confusing one to me) but I think nerfing him even a bit was still a good idea, but again, it just feels peculiar because there's a lot of other changes that didn't happen. I don't mind them being selective with their changes for these Battleslates and reserving the army-wide changes for the GHB, but my main complaint is their selection of what to change probably wasn't the best - it's nice they boosted a lot of unpopular units and reigned in some top dogs, but it might have been better for the game to reign in all the top stuff then focus on underperforming units later? I dunno. I just don't agree with the claim that this update is "terrible". The core rule changes are very good and much needed. Nerfing Petrifex Nagash, Tzeentch Archaon, Sentinels and Stormdrake Guard (this one we've known for a while, obviously, but this is its' "official" drop) are all good changes, and they didn't lie about a lot of the drops being targeted to under-performing/unpopular units. Overall, I would've liked a lot more points changes (especially for Slaanesh) but for our first Battleslate, I rate it just fine. Edited December 21, 2021 by Jaskier 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 The nerf to unleash hell is a further nerf to Sisters of the Watch and Freeguild Handgunners 😞 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Jaskier said: Back in 5th Edition 40k, I once rolled ten 1s out of ten dice for my Grey Knight Paladins' 2+ armour saves, exactly killing the entire unit...from hurricane bolter shots. For reference, that's like killing a save-stacked Archaon at max health with 20 Gnoblars. I think that best sums up my Gotrek pain 🥴 At 100 a pop I expect to see this more often! Gnoblars unite! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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