Warhammer+ discussion

[stratigo]

A dude in australia with a scanner makes better digital versions of GW's rules than GW can with all the millions behind it, and this is very frustrating

[amysrevenge]

None of the poll options fit me.  I suppose "Yes, with doubts" is the closest.

I'll probably subscribe, but not a day before there's a working AoS army builder included.

There are some digital battletomes in my Azyr app that aren't nostalgic looks back - they are current in-use battletomes (unless all battletomes are trashed with 3rd? I haven't heard that...).  I'd sure like to have those in the new app...

[stratigo]

A dude in Russia with a wiki makes a more usable rules only digital version of GW's rules than GW does. Like, at this point GW should hire him.

[Angela]

3 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

None of the poll options fit me.  I suppose "Yes, with doubts" is the closest.

I'll probably subscribe, but not a day before there's a working AoS army builder included.

There are some digital battletomes in my Azyr app that aren't nostalgic looks back - they are current in-use battletomes (unless all battletomes are trashed with 3rd? I haven't heard that...).  I'd sure like to have those in the new app...

I agree. "Nostalgic look back"?!  I feel like I just bought the Soulblight Gravelords Battletome last month!  And since everyone says it was designed for 3.0, I'm assuming a new battletome isn't coming anytime soon.  Am I going to have to buy it again?

 

[Sleboda]

I'm already a 40K app subscriber, and new models are cool, so I'm pretty much in automatically at this price. If they increase much more, not so much.

A few key factors for me:

- The painting videos must end the "lies" (exaggerating/tongue in cheek) of the paint guides in books, in articles, and on boxes. I mean, really, listing a few colors and following the methods of the underpants gnomes just doesn't cut it. I want hyper-detailed, multiple camera, no-excuses-or-short-cuts videos. That red on that guy is no freakin' way just "mephiston, wash crimson, edge orange." It's 17 layers, several techniques, drying times, brush sizes, etc. Give me the real story. I'm an accomplished painter (losing my skills as I age, but won my share of awards and got published enough in my younger days), but I've always believed that there is more to learn. Teach me.

- Battle reports must offer more than YouTubers in terms of not only production quality and listenability of on screen talent (for example, don't use slang and don't use abbreviations like "CP" without establishing what that means first, ala AP style - each viewer could be new to the hobby!), but also in terms of accurate application if rules. Further, they have got to use them to teach the rules. Each game could take a rule or two to highlight. As it's played, have breakouts with highly detailed explanations of why a choice was made based on the rules, and how that rule works. In other words, get the rules right and teach players to do so as well.

- Lastly, "access" to old lore and magazines. If "access" means I can pay more on top of my subscription for these things, hard pass. I'm not buying the equivalent of a Personal Seat License for products that don't have scarcity.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Sleboda

[Laststand]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

the good channels EDIT their battle reports to cut down on irrelevant banter so it's not too long. they'll use 'cinematic' shots and provide multiple angles where you can see how the battle is progressing. the good batreps also lay out each turn phase + the rules being used so you know what's going on.

I've seen batreps go from 1.5hrs to ~3hrs. I don't personally watch the 3hr ones but from my understanding the longer ones are usually because of edition or battletome changes so there are more explanations going on.

Miniwargaming batreps are the easiest for me to watch because those guys have a really good groove that keeps the game flowing while still giving you the info needed to think about your own tactics.

on a closing note I will say that I don't watch batreps often, but if you're doing menial tasks that don't require too much brainpower they are good background watching.

Try a few of the Log Cabin Gaming ones. They average just over an hour. We have beer, a log cabin and just started narrative intros too. 

[yukishiro1]

Really disappointed about what feels like an extremely craven attempt to force people into subscribing by making it inconvenient not to. Retiring the old app is a terrible, very customer unfriendly decision - even before you realize how much better it works than the 40k app that they've been struggling for a year to make something other than terrible. The 40k model for digital rules (if you can even call that) is a complete disaster and seeing them move in that direction for AOS too is a major bummer. 

As long as W+ was just an animation service for people who wanted it I literally couldn't have cared less, now I feel like I am being nudged into spending 6 bucks a month instead of 1 for a product that is likely to be worse, not better. 

And that's just at launch. We all know how these things work, they start out comparatively innocuous and then start to make it harder and harder not to subscribe as time goes on. 

GW needs to stop trying to nudge people into doing things they don't want to do, and just offer a subscription service that gives full digital access to all the rules for a reasonable price per month. It's 2021, it's a joke that they make you buy physical copies in order to input a code to unlock access in the app. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by yukishiro1

[Sleboda]

17 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

What do people like about battle reports?

Assuming the hosts don't put me off with bad attitudes, rules mistakes, or assumptions that every viewer is a long-term player, I like having them on in the background when I hobby. 

I can pick up a new tactic or idea here and there, learn an application of a rule I didn't know, or just get inspired to paint more terrain.

That's about it for me.

If the GW versions lean into the teaching of rules more than the indies do, I'll pay much, much closer attention.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Sleboda

[SentinelGuy]

4 hours ago, EccentricCircle said:

So this is a genuine question, not trying to be sarcastic...

What do people like about battle reports? Warhammer is a slow game to start with, I can think of few things more tedious than spending three hours watching someone else I don't know play a game. I'm not even that fussed about watching my friends play games, and there I can join in with the joking and discussion.

But clearly there is a major appeal? Is it a way to get your gaming fix if you don't play often? Do you follow certain player's careers as though its sports and want to see how their armies are doing? Is there somehow enough of a story in there that its worth wading through hours of dice rolling and minis being moved to get too?

I don't get it?

For me it's about seeing how an army plays without having to buy the GW products first. I work part time (for health reasons), have a mortgage and live on my own, so I don't have the disposable income required to commit like I used to. It wasn't so bad a decade or two ago, but the price hikes really have made me question staying in the hobby.  In the old days a hero mini was about £5, now many are pushing £20. I just don't want to waste big bucks on a unit only to find out it's rubbish and will sit on a shelf gathering dust.

I usually watch battle reports when I'm preparing food, multitasking makes them go faster

Edited June 24, 2021 by SentinelGuy

[Zappgrot]

You know almost any service is an economically bad deal.  Basically your spending money for just an moment of value not for an product of value. (as in when you buys something you then own something but when you pay to use something you don't have anything afterwards) Some services generate value in the long run cause they give you something useful. ( like an education or  medical treatment)   Obviously war hammer plus is not one of those.  So economically warhammer plus is a bad deal.  That leaves convenience and entertainment.  And to be honest.  There are ppl out there that do what warhammer plus does better for less.  Warhapedia is better then gw's apps and youtube creators are better then gw's inhouse productions.  (at least for now) So unless gw really steps up it's game i doubt i will get warhammer plus. Even tough  that megaboss is hella sweet, but then there are e-bay scalpers so if those can stay below 60 bucks warhammer plus has no chance)  

[Christopher Rowe]

2 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

You know almost any service is an economically bad deal.  Basically your spending money for just an moment of value not for an product of value. (as in when you buys something you then own something but when you pay to use something you don't have anything afterwards) Some services generate value in the long run cause they give you something useful. ( like an education or  medical treatment)   Obviously war hammer plus is not one of those.  So economically warhammer plus is a bad deal.  That leaves convenience and entertainment.  And to be honest.  There are ppl out there that do what warhammer plus does better for less.  Warhapedia is better then gw's apps and youtube creators are better then gw's inhouse productions.  (at least for now) So unless gw really steps up it's game i doubt i will get warhammer plus. Even tough  that megaboss is hella sweet, but then there are e-bay scalpers so if those can stay below 60 bucks warhammer plus has no chance)  

Your definition of value seems a bit dated. Like, Adam Smith dated. In any case, I'm worried about the product (if you'll forgive my usage of the term) for various reasons but you can bet your sweet non fungible that GW will turn a profit on it.

[yukishiro1]

He wasn't saying it was a bad deal for Games Workshop...

[stratigo]

56 minutes ago, Christopher Rowe said:

Your definition of value seems a bit dated. Like, Adam Smith dated. In any case, I'm worried about the product (if you'll forgive my usage of the term) for various reasons but you can bet your sweet non fungible that GW will turn a profit on it.

I mean, Adam Smith really is far too leftist and we shouldn't be mentioning such a left wing thinker.

 

 

[CommissarRotke]

50 minutes ago, Zappgrot said:

You know almost any service is an economically bad deal.  Basically your spending money for just an moment of value not for an product of value. (as in when you buys something you then own something but when you pay to use something you don't have anything afterwards) Some services generate value in the long run cause they give you something useful. ( like an education or  medical treatment)   Obviously war hammer plus is not one of those.  So economically warhammer plus is a bad deal.  That leaves convenience and entertainment.  And to be honest.  There are ppl out there that do what warhammer plus does better for less.  Warhapedia is better then gw's apps and youtube creators are better then gw's inhouse productions.  (at least for now) So unless gw really steps up it's game i doubt i will get warhammer plus. Even tough  that megaboss is hella sweet, but then there are e-bay scalpers so if those can stay below 60 bucks warhammer plus has no chance)  

Will preface this by saying I do agree with you. However for systems/games that require regular updates a subscription *can* be a decent value. BUT, the company needs to a- have proper funding for the service and most importantly b- have a well-staffed support&development team for it.

While I buy most Warhammer books for the lore, it absolutely sucks spending 40$ on something that has typos, has rules that immediately need to be FAQ'd, has points that get outdated every year, and generally are part of a larger system that would do best with semi-constant updates. If a live service prevents those issues, saves me space, and offers a full digital version of the same book? I'm listening.

That being said, here's where we agree: there sounds like a clear consensus that the new 40k app is still terrible after a year--which means GW failed point B, probably because they think they can get away with skirting point A. This is a pretty good indicator that the new AOS app will have the same level of issues. Not having your Azyr books transferred to the new app is also terrible customer service. Hosting batreps and lore feels like they might try to push out indie creators, especially after buying out animators and making them take down youtube videos.

There's a lot of uncertainty, and I'll say again that GW teasing this like it's a new book or new model feels extremely icky. If I do end up subscribing, it will not be until they get a whole year under the WH+ belt.

[Baron Klatz]

Well I'm gonna echo most others that on the whole the Warhammer+ sounds fantastic. Up until the new apps that is.

On a personal note i'm just happy they're letting the AoS 2.0 app stick around for a good while longer. I'm downloading it to all my devices for the excellent service it is and to use it for the far future in being a fast and efficient warscroll and rules finder.

When 3rd edition got announced and I saw the size of the core rules I feared we'd get a overhaul update that replaced everything on top of a possible paywall. That would've been much worse than letting our noble app retire honorably.

That all said I am hopeful for the new app. Yes I'm worried about their handling of it and how they're likely not carrying purchases over but IF they do factor in that Age of Sigmar needs more quality than 40k to pull players in and do everything right then this could be amazing!

A well priced subscription service that opens tons of extras to a player along with an app army builder and Path to Glory system with all the in-app purchases available does a lot to make that paywall look pretty thin for all the good things you're getting.

I'm also hopeful the app and it's new warscrolls and rules aren't behind a paywall either. The way they worded it did make it sound like your subscription unlocks the pay stuff (tomes, builder, PtG) while the free beta stuff remained opened.

As always, hope for the best and prepare for the worst with fingers crossed as it is with both company decisions and rolls of the dice.

[Gareth 🍄]

Sounds worth the asking price to me, I'm pleasantly surprised.

[Chikout]

As well as AoS, I'm a pretty big halo fan. They just put up a post on their community site detailing the new app and the difference could not be bigger. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/inside-infinite-june-2021

It really is shocking how bad that article from yesterday was. It didn't answer any of the concerns players have and didn't provide a single factual detail about the contents of the new AoS app. 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Chikout said:

As well as AoS, I'm a pretty big halo fan. They just put up a post on their community site detailing the new app and the difference could not be bigger. https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/community/blog-posts/inside-infinite-june-2021

It really is shocking how bad that article from yesterday was. It didn't answer any of the concerns players have and didn't provide a single factual detail about the contents of the new AoS app. 

Im a huge halo fan too but havent been keeping up with the new stuff. I clicked that link and now im going down that rabbit hole lol

Yeah that article was straight trash.

GW: hey we are making a new companion app. oh btw we are retiring the old one. good luck!

[AaronWilson]

I won't be investing into this my self, but on the face of it £6 a month seems incredibly good value for what you do get and seems value for money. 

[Malakithe]

31 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

I won't be investing into this my self, but on the face of it £6 a month seems incredibly good value for what you do get and seems value for money. 

The low by in is the only reason im even considering it right now. Its just low enough that it will probably draw in a lot of people who are curious at first. 

[AaronWilson]

14 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

The low by in is the only reason im even considering it right now. Its just low enough that it will probably draw in a lot of people who are curious at first. 

100%, it's very good value and it's a very low buy in. Even if you just wanted one of the 5-6 services on offer, £6 a month is enough to say yes and not really worry about it y'know. 

[Malakithe]

16 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

100%, it's very good value and it's a very low buy in. Even if you just wanted one of the 5-6 services on offer, £6 a month is enough to say yes and not really worry about it y'know. 

I play both AoS and 40k and use both apps when im not at home so that alone pays for itself. Everything else is icing

[Urauloth]

I gotta reiterate how much I like getting access to the lore sections of old campaign books like the Realmgate Wars. I wouldn't want to buy a book like that at full price, but I snapped up the ebooks of Gathering Storm when they bundled those at a steep discount just to get the art/lore. What I'm hoping with this WH+ vault is that these books will be easy to access and read on a variety of devices, and also that the format will be preserved. If this is the case, the vault and the painting videos will be worth the subscription price for me.

On the subject of digital publications, which is all I talk about lately, that Warcry pdf for Soulblight is very good. I'd like to see more of that. It does make me sad that the ToC and the grand alliance books were print-only though, because clearly all Warcry material could have been like this.

GW: I just want to be able to pack my wee orruks in a little case in a bag with my tablet and have everything I need to get on a train and go to a game somewhere. You can do it. You can make that possible. (in a future where it's safe to do this, obviously)

[Malakithe]

13 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

I gotta reiterate how much I like getting access to the lore sections of old campaign books like the Realmgate Wars. I wouldn't want to buy a book like that at full price, but I snapped up the ebooks of Gathering Storm when they bundled those at a steep discount just to get the art/lore. What I'm hoping with this WH+ vault is that these books will be easy to access and read on a variety of devices, and also that the format will be preserved. If this is the case, the vault and the painting videos will be worth the subscription price for me.

On the subject of digital publications, which is all I talk about lately, that Warcry pdf for Soulblight is very good. I'd like to see more of that. It does make me sad that the ToC and the grand alliance books were print-only though, because clearly all Warcry material could have been like this.

GW: I just want to be able to pack my wee orruks in a little case in a bag with my tablet and have everything I need to get on a train and go to a game somewhere. You can do it. You can make that possible. (in a future where it's safe to do this, obviously)

Honestly all I want is digital rules books for both AoS and 40k

[Zappgrot]

15 hours ago, Christopher Rowe said:

Your definition of value seems a bit dated. Like, Adam Smith dated. In any case, I'm worried about the product (if you'll forgive my usage of the term) for various reasons but you can bet your sweet non fungible that GW will turn a profit on it.

Well value is subjective.  But it's hard to argue that a service has lasting value.