AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[MiniJunkie]

14 hours ago, Adamcbutton said:

Warscroll Builder’s been updated and is showing the Marshcrawla Sloggoth as a Kruleboyz unit, hopefully this means the keyword will be added to its warscroll soon. 

I feel like it surely must be. I was (finally) looking through the book, and in the Kruleboyz sections - even under the Kruleboyz warclan structure - the Marshcrawla is in there. 

[Boggler]

I am seeing a lot of lists that are taking the:

Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

even in multiples of two.

What are you thinking that this unit will do? What matchups will it do well against?

Why are you taking it?

[Kasper]

5 hours ago, Boggler said:

I am seeing a lot of lists that are taking the:

Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

even in multiples of two.

What are you thinking that this unit will do? What matchups will it do well against?

Why are you taking it?

I mean we are playing an edition where monsters are strong, but even against a 5 wound hero those guys are pretty good. You do 2 damage by default, roll 5 dice and theres a good chance you get at least one 5+. That means 3 damage + 3 MW.

[Icetea]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

I mean we are playing an edition where monsters are strong, but even against a 5 wound hero those guys are pretty good. You do 2 damage by default, roll 5 dice and theres a good chance you get at least one 5+. That means 3 damage + 3 MW.

wow, that's actually pretty nuts! I never really thought about and broke it down. 

[Kasper]

13 minutes ago, Icetea said:

wow, that's actually pretty nuts! I never really thought about and broke it down. 

Yep! I think everyone are being greedy thinking "omg 12 damage vs Mega gargants, so good!" but forgetting they can easily snipe smaller heroes. Honestly they seem bonkers and super undercosted for what they can do. They remind me a lot about Mortek Crawlers except they dont really do well against big sized units. 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

I mean we are playing an edition where monsters are strong, but even against a 5 wound hero those guys are pretty good. You do 2 damage by default, roll 5 dice and theres a good chance you get at least one 5+. That means 3 damage + 3 MW.

3 damage or 3 mortal wounds (On a 6).

@Icetea also worth noting that you have megagargants running around at the moment. 35 wounds means you should roll ~11 extra damage, with the 2 base extra your killbow is now at 12 damage.

Even big stuff like archaon or mawkrushas should get you some high damage numbers.

[Kasper]

8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

3 damage or 3 mortal wounds (On a 6).

@Icetea also worth noting that you have megagargants running around at the moment. 35 wounds means you should roll ~11 extra damage, with the 2 base extra your killbow is now at 12 damage.

Even big stuff like archaon or mawkrushas should get you some high damage numbers.

I thought the MW poison effect was in addition.

[Rachmani]

1 minute ago, Kasper said:

I thought the MW poison effect was in addition.

The Poison happens on the hit roll. So either you hit and roll for damage normally (round about 3 to maybe 4 dmg vs a 5 wound hero) or you roll poison on the hit roll, in which case it does MW straight away. Here I‘m honestly unsure how the damage is calculated. But is either-or, not both.

[Liquidsteel]

Plus you can take one as Artillery if you're going for 1 drop.

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

The Poison happens on the hit roll. So either you hit and roll for damage normally (round about 3 to maybe 4 dmg vs a 5 wound hero) or you roll poison on the hit roll, in which case it does MW straight away. Here I‘m honestly unsure how the damage is calculated. But is either-or, not both.

The mortal wounds it deals are based on it's damage, so you would roll up the damage for the shot when it triggers.

6 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Plus you can take one as Artillery if you're going for 1 drop.

One of the lists I wrote for Big Waaagh! used it over boltboyz for this reason. It's essentially a "sixth" unit slot for the battle regiment.

[Acrozatarim]

The Killbow is basically a very powerful hunting rifle. You want to fire it at tough targets where its higher Rend and high damage potential can make large holes in things.

The Killbow also has a range-based advantage. While it still has to target pretty high-Wound units to actually pull ahead of Boltboyz on damage, notably that's calculated against Boltboyz firing Hasty Shot - which they need to get within that shorter range for. The Killbow fires at maximum efficiency within its longer range.

There's also the psychological impact. I'm not convinced the Killbow is better than another unit of Boltboyz in a lot of situations, but the potential to reach out and tear massive chunks out of usually-resilient targets at considerable range is probably going to have an effect on how opponents react to its presence.

 

[Acrozatarim]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

Yep! I think everyone are being greedy thinking "omg 12 damage vs Mega gargants, so good!" but forgetting they can easily snipe smaller heroes. Honestly they seem bonkers and super undercosted for what they can do. They remind me a lot about Mortek Crawlers except they dont really do well against big sized units. 

Honestly, assuming a 4+ armour save, unless the smaller hero has a good number of Wounds - like, 10 or more - Killbows are worse at small hero sniping than Boltboyz. 9 Wounds or less, which is where most smaller heroes lie, the Boltboyz are going to do more damage on average, and have a higher potential spike damage for that kind of target.

However, the Killbow can do it by pointing and clicking from within 24" (or, let's face it, 27") range, whereas the Boltboyz need to close to their shorter range band to get that sort of killing power.

Edit: Got the calcs for Wounds when shooting a target with LOS wrong!

Edited September 23, 2021 by Acrozatarim

[Rachmani]

33 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The mortal wounds it deals are based on it's damage, so you would roll up the damage for the shot when it triggers.

One of the lists I wrote for Big Waaagh! used it over boltboyz for this reason. It's essentially a "sixth" unit slot for the battle regiment.

That‘s what I thought, thanks.

[Ganigumo]

12 hours ago, Boggler said:

I am seeing a lot of lists that are taking the:

Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

even in multiples of two.

What are you thinking that this unit will do? What matchups will it do well against?

Why are you taking it?

1 killbow is a bit inconsistent, but they're horrendously undercosted against armies bringing high wound monsters (like sons of behemat) and only a bit overcosted if all they can do is shoot at support heroes, so bringing a couple is generally worth it since the value it provides in good matchups far outweighs the lost efficiency in it's bad matchups.

[woolf]

On 9/21/2021 at 4:51 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's actually kinda tricky to calculate. I'll have to get back to you on that.

just skip close form solution and do a simulation, shouldn't be too hard and way easier to solve

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

50 minutes ago, woolf said:

just skip close form solution and do a simulation, shouldn't be too hard and way easier to solve

I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Monte Carlo 😡

Jokes aside, part of the enjoyment I get out of doing this math is seeing what components play into the final result and how. Running a simulation is just not very fun to me 🙂

[Jabbuk]

18 hours ago, SunStorm said:

I've got a Skumdrekk on order and was looking at the GW images and thinking about those empty cages:

Is anybody else going through ideas in their heads about models that could fit in there as unfortunate souls already captured?

Wilhelm, obviously. Or the guy with the turkey. They are two excellently ridiculous models in my eye.

[Rachmani]

7 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

1 killbow is a bit inconsistent, but they're horrendously undercosted against armies bringing high wound monsters (like sons of behemat) and only a bit overcosted if all they can do is shoot at support heroes, so bringing a couple is generally worth it since the value it provides in good matchups far outweighs the lost efficiency in it's bad matchups.

I think you nailed it. They pose such a threat to a lot of what‘s meta right now, that taking two isn‘t much of a risk.

[Sivyre]

So this is what I have in mind for a list I’ve been pondering but I’m torn between the shamans; to include or not to include that is the question.

they feel quite necessary but at the same time they also feel like a bait how do you folks feel about them because I tentatively have 2 in the list and I am back and forth on whether to keep them or drop them.

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)*
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky  
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Loud 'Un
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**

Battleline
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1945 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 136
Drops: 4
 

[Lord Krungharr]

Greetings from a safe distance, Kruleboyz!  I have read that there might be 2 Troggoth units in your army and one or both can grant my hungry Ogors +1 to hit somehow with an aura perhaps?  Anyone know which units these are?  No free warscrolls on the GW site anymore....wasn't wanting to buy a whole tome, but that Mirebrute sure looks pretty awesome, and only $50!

Please and thank youz!

[Tomplex]

1 hour ago, Sivyre said:

So this is what I have in mind for a list I’ve been pondering but I’m torn between the shamans; to include or not to include that is the question.

they feel quite necessary but at the same time they also feel like a bait how do you folks feel about them because I tentatively have 2 in the list and I am back and forth on whether to keep them or drop them.

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)*
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky  
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Loud 'Un
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**

Battleline
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1945 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 136
Drops: 4
 

I like this list a lot, pretty close to what I was thinking of. I do think you have too many mount traits though. 

 

As far as the shamans go you have just what you need to poison up but your boltboyz units, plus they're your needed subleaders. Seems good to me. 

[Arzalyn]

28 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Greetings from a safe distance, Kruleboyz!  I have read that there might be 2 Troggoth units in your army and one or both can grant my hungry Ogors +1 to hit somehow with an aura perhaps?  Anyone know which units these are?  No free warscrolls on the GW site anymore....wasn't wanting to buy a whole tome, but that Mirebrute sure looks pretty awesome, and only $50!

Please and thank youz!

The one that gives a 18" +1 to hit aura  to friendly units is the Marshcrawla Sloggoth, the Troggoth with the howdah. 150 points and should be+/- the same price of the Mirebrute. If you want to see its warscroll check the app, the warscrolls are free there (at least for now).

1 hour ago, Sivyre said:

So this is what I have in mind for a list I’ve been pondering but I’m torn between the shamans; to include or not to include that is the question.

they feel quite necessary but at the same time they also feel like a bait how do you folks feel about them because I tentatively have 2 in the list and I am back and forth on whether to keep them or drop them.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Killaboss on Corpse-Rippa Vulcha (240)*
- General
- Command Trait: Supa Sneaky  
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Loud 'Un
Breaka-Boss on Mirebrute Troggoth (180)**
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)**

Battleline
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)*
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1945 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 136
Drops: 4

 

The Shamans are really good for how much they cost, so if you have points for them two is probably the best option. If you change the second one on your list you would need a different hero with less than 10 wounds for the battalion. What would you put in his place? If you want to try this list with only one shaman I would suggest you change the Boltboyz to units of 9/3 and leave the shaman with the 9 unit for the poison.

[Sivyre]

20 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

The one that gives a 18" +1 to hit aura  to friendly units is the Marshcrawla Sloggoth, the Troggoth with the howdah. 150 points and should be+/- the same price of the Mirebrute. If you want to see its warscroll check the app, the warscrolls are free there (at least for now).

The Shamans are really good for how much they cost, so if you have points for them two is probably the best option. If you change the second one on your list you would need a different hero with less than 10 wounds for the battalion. What would you put in his place? If you want to try this list with only one shaman I would suggest you change the Boltboyz to units of 9/3 and leave the shaman with the 9 unit for the poison.

I’ve been thinking the list over quite a bit in my head, if I were to drop a shaman probably a belcher banner for the 5++ spell aura he provides for 95 pts but I unno if I’m even fond of that idea, my draft has this weird imbalance of points. 1945 is kinda yikes cause well triumphs are kinda not that good 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Sivyre

[Jabbuk]

I see Gutrippaz in units of 10s and I also see lists with units of 20. What's the main advantage of running MSU vs reinforced unit. In both cases, I would use units of Hobgrots to screen and I would have a Killaboss for battleshock.

[Slave2Chaos]

I’ve been really considering a unit of 6 Fellwater to ally in (possibly rock) just so I can have a unit to push forward and take’n hold objectives. Not sure which set is better at it honestly but fellwater fit the theme more better. Maybe even a gate breaker?

Otherwise in pure kruleboyz all u really have is the sludgeraker, maybe a killaboss on gnashtooth or mire brute. Gutrippaz and Hobgrots sure as hell arnt going to hold a point. Your boltboyz are already going to be a high priority target and too busy shooting. Castle tactics based on boltboyz honestly seem like a trap to me. Only looking to run 2 units of 6 at most myself.

can you really rely on low drop plus casino dice / magic to pen an opponent in their territory? That’s 3 sludgerakers? Plus a shaman or 2. At least sneaky miasma is only a 6 to cast.