Tomplex

Life, Death and Orruks? Clearly we are getting an Orruk priest.

I don't know. I feel like GW missed the mark with Kruleboyz not just with the rules but with the lore as well. The Swamp lurkers background on troops that use complicated and powerful mechanisms like crossbows and ballistae, that would rust quickly and gunk up immediately in a swamp just doesn't jive. As orruks who prefer a Mork approach to war, they should have better armor, weapons and discipline than the Ironjawz who seem to have fully abandoned their roots (if not the miniatures) of the Black Orcs of the old world in favor of krumping things with pig iron. We already have Gitz to be sneaky, the Kruleboyz should have shown their Morkishness with martial discipline and tactics. Using ensorcelled weapons and armor crafted by the Chaos Dwarfs instead of sticks dipped in toxins. But that's just my opinion. And speaking of gitz why are there any the book? Why make units for Kruleboyz that don't get to use the allegiance abilities? Would it have been so bad to have Orruks on the Sloggoth? Just an overall missed opportunity if you ask me. And don't get me started on how badly the soup was implemented in this soup book. There's no soup just less options.

I'm a bit late catching up, so I apologize if the subject of soup tomes has moved on but I wanted to throw in my two cents. Soup tomes should go away altogether but Grand Alliance armies should make a comeback with their own subfactions for what would qualify for a soup tome. Grand Alliance Destruction, subfaction Big Waaagh. Grand Alliance Order, subfaction Duardin Restoration With more than just an afterthought of Allegiance abilities, Artefacts, Spells and Command Traits.

Wow. I never realized the fellwaters look so bad in profile. They look great head on but wow, there's gotta be a way to trim them to get their head closer in to their bodies.

That's a solid selection and a nice, hearty list you've got. Are you running Ironsunz? I too have loads of ard boyz and while I love them, I personally prefer to keep them in 5's. They don't take buffs as well but it saves me on command points to keep them from safe from battleshock, which has proven to be a problem for my boyz. I think a megaboss on foot would be a great addition for your collection, especially in this new GHB. One note would be the weapon and artefact choice on the Mawcrusha. I personally would either take the Destroyer with the hacka and choppa, or switch to the Armor of Gork with the riptoof fist. Splitting the difference between choppy and tanky seems off to me.

Yes! I have no advice other than it looks like you know what you're doing and have a good start, but I did want to pop in with some appreciation. I love army blogs and I'm looking forward to seeing your project grow!

I'm not going to consider Gutrippaz as anything other than a tax or a screen unless our shamans can give them potions and elixirs in combat.

I got a chance to test the list out against Std, I took the Breakaboss to fill out the points. Weirdly my dice rolled way too hot to be able to guage the list's measure appropriately. I took the arcane tome, touched by the Waaagh megaboss with the foot of Gork. An unlikely gambit that went off spectacularly, killing a sorcerer lord on manticore in one go. That and a great charge roll let me get behind his lines to lift the demon prince of khorne. Meanwhile the Boltboyz rolled 4 6's and lifted a foot sorcerer. Both units of maniaks made their charges and pinned his front line after Gobsprakk choking misted a bunch of enemy units which just completely gutted the enemy counterpunch. The chaos lord on karkadrak lifted a unit of maniaks, but that put him in range of the Wurrgog stare in my turn, which basically sealed the game after some even more hot dice. So I can't say the list did well as much as my dice were burning a hole in the fabric of the universe. But I can say that I think I'm onto something in this ghb season. I hope I get to play again soon.

Hmm. Looking at the FEC roster it looks like we're missing Peasant archers Mounted yeoman Damsels Trebuchet Foot squires Battle pilgrims Grail relaque Knight variants Now obviously using tools beyond simple bone is against the FEC ethos, so creating approximates of the above is difficult. Unless you lean into the reality warping effects of the delusion. Imagine instead of ghouls using bone bows or throwing spears we create ghouls who are so deluded into their belief that they are archers they can manifest and hurl bolts of necrotic energy, something like kairic acolytes of Tzeentch. Instead of uparmored crypt horrors with bone plate as grail knights we create horrors so convinced of their station they clad themselves in smoking and or dripping armor of pure shadow and wield swords of congealed death magic. I honestly think FEC is the best faction in death to place some actual priests. Their power and curse is pure, twisted faith. Damsels, pilgrims, whatever. A ghoul borne grail relaque that's a hideous trophy of bone and rotten meat as a buff or debuff support unit would be ace. And I'd love to see FEC share wolves and bats with soulblight as the mounted yeoman equivalents. Or a subfaction that can affect them as allies. Just gotta print some new boxes for those kits and job's a good un. I have no idea how to hammer the concept of a Trebuchet into the FEC. Might have to let that one go, or maybe a dual kit with the relaque that lobs death bolts. Some special characters would be nice, especially the big guy himself.

The Breakaboss is at the top of my list to try out. I primed him last night and started working on his base. I'm more than a little worried about his speed but maybe his presence will deter some folks from making melee assassination runs at my foot heroes. I'm reluctant to supa sneaky him since he'd have to be the general to do it. And I want those waaagh points from the general to keep rolling in.

I'm kinda reluctant to include gitz. Ironically, of all the warclans big waaagh takes the biggest hit from including allies. Not only do they not get allegiance abilities but they don't generate waaagh points either. But Rippas Snarlfangs is a good call regardless. Cheap enough to throw away and allow another hero or even another unit of Boltboyz. I think the Swampcalla might not be worth it with such small units. Man I really wish the Murknob banner protected all orruks instead of just Kruleboyz...

Been thinking about big waaagh lately. I want to do something that includes the better parts of all 3 clans and can try to make semi competitive use of it. I know I want to include the following Mawcrusha - because it's a force of nature Gobsprakk- for all the great spells Warchanter - autoinclude Wurrgog - autoinclude 3x5 ard boyz - best, cheapest battleline 2x3 boltboyz - to snipe and chip wounds 2x5 boarboy maniaks - give the Wurrgog something to buff turn 1 and to make early charges to pin and earn waaagh points. That leaves me 190 points to play around with. Some interesting options include Breakaboss - to clap cheeks Weirdnob Shaman and Wardokk - for a second Warlord and to leverage casting Gnashtoof Killaboss - slippery scumbag for additional pinning and a tanky general A unit of Gore-gruntas - to clap cheeks I imagine I'll try all these variants out, but it's there something I haven't considered for those 190 points?

I'm really trying to hold out for chorfs as my chaos faction. It's helped that khorne and slaanesh have been sloshing around at the bottom of the barrel, but the recent updates have me wavering. I know I'm only going to collect one... can I wait a few more years?

Goading Arrogance

My gut says it should affect bonereapers because of 1.6.3. The allegiance ability is granted first and the contradictory ability only applies later when entering 12 inches of the terrain, but I'm not a rules guy.

Ghoulish Landmark While an enemy unit is within 12" of any terrain features with this scenery rule, it cannot be affected by any abilities that allow units to ignore battleshock tests.

The FEC white dwarf update will replace the BoK update as the least impactful WD update to date. The throne gains an inhibit battleshock immunity within 12. there's a heroic action to muster on a die roll in 10 inches. 6 dice, 2+ for serfs, 5+ fur knights a grand strategy that needs 3 summoned units alive at the end 3 battle tactics, scream something to death kill a monster that has had less than 5 wounds allocated to it (bonus point for doing it with an abhorrent) conquer an objective with a serf, knight and courier all together. It is no feast, only famine.

With nurgle and now nighthaunt and daughters able to prevent you from using Inspiring Presence i wonder if it might be worth taking another look at Gutrippaz and a Killaboss to keep them around with All Part of da Plan. I really hope they get a points drop...

I agree with all your takeaways, except maybe how fast the points add up. Wish I had your luck with that, heh. The Killbow is definitely the fat in the list. I could very well be wrong about this, but don't you need a commander and 2 subs per warlord? I'm only seeing 5 heroes? If I'm right, another character should replace the bow. Another Warchanter is never bad, maybe a Weirdnob or hey what about a Fungoid Cave Shaman for the cp? I actually like the Murknob for the spell defense. If I'm wrong then a small unit of Man-skewers for more range poke or Big Stabbaz for more poke over the head of the ard boyz.

Welp, after a few games it's starting to look like big packs of ard boyz aren't for me. 10 is probably enough to soak a charge from a reasonably punchy unit but a proper powerhouse will atomize 15 as easily as 10 or 5. They definitely don't hit like aos2 ardboyz, which is fine. I appreciate the more clearly defined roles between them and brutes... I don't know. The list feels like it needs some more combat punch from somewhere. The gnashtoof can't do all the heavy lifting. Not really ready to give up on them yet, but I'll certainly be following the advice to move those reinforcement slots over to consolidating the Boltboyz. Maybe try to upgrade the gnashtoof to a sludgeraker. I'd miss that slippery mobility though.

*double post*

I agree wholeheartedly. Some kind of non hero monster would give skullbugz a reason to exist. A cav unit, or even an elite Infantry unit that was battleline in grinning blades would add some necessary diversity to that subfaction. Also Allegiance abilities that only work on a dice roll are not good. Warscroll abilities that only work on a dice roll, only against certain units or in certain situations aren't worth paying points for. Please let shamans buff units in combat or give kruleboyz units an allegiance ability to retreat or redeploy out of combat after the battleshock phase or something. Please let the gnashtoof count as a subcommander, even if you have to drop a wound from it. I love that model, I love its rules, but it has such an opportunity cost attached to it.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: IndomitableLeadersWurrgog Prophet (150)**- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry- Universal Spell Lore: LevitateOrruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)**- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork- Lore of the Weird: Foot of GorkOrruk Warchanter (115)***- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatOrruk Warchanter (115)***- Warbeat: Killa BeatKillaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)***- General- Command Trait: Slippery Skumbag- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming WeaponSwampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex- Lore of the Swamp: Choking MistBattleline15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*- Reinforced x 215 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*- Reinforced x 25 x Orruk Brutes (160)****- Jagged Gore-hackas- 1x Gore ChoppasUnits3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)****- Jagged Gore-hackas3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)****- Jagged Gore-hackas3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)**3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)***Core Battalions*Hunters of the Heartlands**Warlord***Warlord****Ironjawz FistAdditional EnhancementsSpellArtefactTotal: 1995 / 2000Reinforced Units: 4 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 158Drops: 13 Been thinking of mostly jawz lists thanks to broche and came up with the above. I'm excited to give this a go at my earliest opportunity.

Yeah, that's kinda my point. If your big waaagh has an ironjawz core, what are you doing with your units for those first turns? Running serpentine? Jawz have below average magic and non existent shooting. If you're charging units in to get those sweet big waaagh points, well, we don't have cheap, fast orruks so you're kind of making an aggressive commitment there. If you're not then you're putting your foot on the brakes which you have to ask yourself if you can afford to do that with whatever you're up against. Dipping into Kruleboyz doesn't make enough of an impact to warrant a defensive playstyle. Their units require a steep investment to get a return out of them. On the other hand dipping into Ironjawz gets you cheap battleline and fast, quality goregruntaz that can play cagey around that Kruleboyz core until the points can reach the 16 to 20 mark. Hopefully.

That's a fair point, I see where you're coming from. The only thing stopping me from agreeing with you is how long I have to wait to get that +1/+1. I can't really expect it until turn 3, and if I'm playing pure jawz with hunt and crush or alright, get em! I've got my most important combats already decided by then. Then again other players seem to have better luck racking up waaagh points than I do. As far as that list I'd bump up the shooting with more manskewers and think about a unit of goregruntaz to bully weaker objective holders. The gruntaz fill a hole that kruleboyz have in their native roster so that feels good to me. I do think one unit of Gutrippaz as core is a good idea with a snatchaboss on the table.