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Why are so many players hostile?


Shadowcortax

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I'm fairly new to aos, only really played a few games with friends.  But why whenever I try to look up the answer to a question I have in the forums, most of what I see is just people ranting about, "this faction needs to be nerfed", "this army should never have been made", "ability is too overpowered", "that character needs to be nerfed". And then a few threads later I see, "why did they need this", "my army can't beat that army because I got nerfed", "if this is how GW is gonna do things then I'm out". And most of the time the reason that I see people complaining is because they are having a bit of trouble winning against a certain army, but the reason they are having trouble is because their army got nerfed, so now they want to nerf another army.  I was told when I started this hobby that the community was supportive, but more than half of what I see and find is people complaining, and when someone offers advice most people either ignore it or respond with something like "well have YOU ever face them", or "you have no idea what you're talking about". And then there are the things I see and here about people being bullied away from certain armies because the community decided that if you play that armies your either a noob or a 'meta-chaser' or a bad person in general. 

Why? What happened? And why do I feel like everyone has it out for the death faction, and by extension me a death player?

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Just now, Beastmaster said:

It’s the Internet. 😎

Even then it shouldn't be about trying to get GW to nerf every army you play against that is even the smallest bit frustrating or that you haven't been able to beat in your first few game against them. Also it's more about why are so many people in the community bitter and hostile? The community is advertised as welcoming and supportive, but if say a new player picks up and plays NH, OBR, or HOS then they get bullied or discriminated against for their choice. I personally had someone threaten to burn my book and smash my models when I beat them (I got lucky and managed to kill their general, but that was mainly good rolls on my part and bad on theirs, but they didn't see it that way, they just saw it as my faction was too OP and needed to be nerfed). 

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Ok, now that you say it I remember last time I was in a miniature shop I heard a conversation between the shop owner and a customer. The owner asked if he would be interested in playing. And the customer said he wouldn’t play because he hated losing so much and he would be afraid of losing control over himself if he lost. A normal middle-aged man. I find this attitude self-crippling.

In RPGS, there is also this kind of gamers who are only interested in being the strongest. Maybe that’s comparable.

Seems there is a streak in nerdism using fantasy games mainly for self-empowering. I don’t know how many they are and honestly I find it sad. But for the sake of enjoyable playing experiences I’d advise to stay away from them.

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13 minutes ago, Beastmaster said:

Ok, now that you say it I remember last time I was in a miniature shop I heard a conversation between the shop owner and a customer. The owner asked if he would be interested in playing. And the customer said he wouldn’t play because he hated losing so much and he would be afraid of losing control over himself if he lost. A normal middle-aged man. I find this attitude self-crippling.

In RPGS, there is also this kind of gamers who are only interested in being the strongest. Maybe that’s comparable.

Seems there is a streak in nerdism using fantasy games mainly for self-empowering. I don’t know how many they are and honestly I find it sad. But for the sake of enjoyable playing experiences I’d advise to stay away from them.

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to. I'm just worried that I won't be able to tell which is which before starting a game with them.

Also there is still the other problem of people discriminating against certain armies, like "if you play that army you're a *blank*". Any advise for that? I don't really like talking to some one and I mention I play OBR, NH, and LoN and being promptly assailed with nasty comments about why those armies are bad, OP and need to be nerfed or I'm bad player for playing them. It really gets depressing. 

I also come across a similar problem in 40k.

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I have to say, I experienced it a bit in the same way. It feels like for a part of the community everything that isn’t Khorne vs Khorne (without prayers) is a NPE and shouldn’t be in the game. There is probably not much you can do about this, besides avoiding them if you can play with other people. They might also avoid you if they think your faction is OP or just genuinely not fun to play against. Which also can be true sometimes, because things can be OP or not fun. But if it gets personal like in the example you gave, that person anyway has some issues. 

If you stay a bit longer and venture into other parts of the community, you can easily experience the supportive side of it. If you talk about the hobby for example, or you venture into the lore part or things like that. 

And here on TGA I think all in all it’s pretty good. Usually if you ask list building questions etc., in the faction specific threads people will reply with good information. 

 

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Have to echo LuminethMage. By and large the community is fantastic. There are some Troggoths here but they are very few (and let's face it, you can find them anywhere), and most people vent because they are passionate about their hobby.

With any hobby thats expensive, addictive and not entirely balanced, you'll get the odd rant. Its natural.

But you'll also get plenty of empathy and encouragement too. Sure, if you can't tolerate losing (and for those people you have my sympathy) then this isn't the game for you. Playing for the joy of AoS is an important part of the hobby in my book. Its toy soldiers, not life and death 😉

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9 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I have to say, I experienced it a bit in the same way. It feels like for a part of the community everything that isn’t Khorne vs Khorne (without prayers) is a NPE and shouldn’t be in the game. There is probably not much you can do about this, besides avoiding them if you can play with other people. They might also avoid you if they think your faction is OP or just genuinely not fun to play against. Which also can be true sometimes, because things can be OP or not fun. But if it gets personal like in the example you gave, that person anyway has some issues. 

If you stay a bit longer and venture into other parts of the community, you can easily experience the supportive side of it. If you talk about the hobby for example, or you venture into the lore part or things like that. 

And here on TGA I think all in all it’s pretty good. Usually if you ask list building questions etc., in the faction specific threads people will reply with good information. 

 

Thanks. The specific player I mentioned plays: Stormcast Eternals, Fyreslayers, and Cities of Sigmar in Age of Sigmar and Grey Knights, Ultramarines, and Tau in 40k, they hate the monolith (I play necrons) because they played against it in 5th edition and still are of the opinion that it is undefeatable, they also played against death during end times and hold a grudge against nagash, which is one reason (other than price) I haven't gotten him yet (they said they would smash him). Yes I realize that I should probably avoid this person but they are one of the only 5 people in my play group, and they don't act like that with any other army so most of the rest of group don't believe it. Although they do say all chaos should die but that's more their opinion on lore.  They brought a thunderbird cannon to my first 40k game and used it against me. So not that great of an experience.

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@Shadowcortax the hobby is what you get out of it. If you only play with negative players, you'll have a negative experience.

Look for local players in your area, local clubs or events, and expand your pool of opponents.

Also, there is often negative players who have no idea how egregious they are being, because this hobby is full of shy people who won't ever confront bad behaviour. If you explain to this negative players that they create a negative play experience, being constructive as you do so, you'll often see radical change to their behaviour because no one has ever called them out on it before. 

It's also important to not mistake passion for negativity. Often when something horrendous happens in a game, and I get tabled on turn 1 or something, it's a difficult and frustrating situation to manage, knowing that your choices lead to a complete and utter failure of a game. It takes a few minutes to process before you can return to normal. I'm not saying that this justifies bad behaviour, but sometimes a little empathy to how your opponent may be feeling during the game, as no one likes taking their toys off the table 😂

But this is all the physical gaming stuff. As for the Internet, it's the Internet, people moan and vent. You don't have to engage with it. I'm part of fifty million hobby related facesmack groups, but they aren't the be all and end all of the hobby, they're just a forum, and like any Internet forum you often have to wade through the 💩 to find the 🌟

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10 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Shadowcortax the hobby is what you get out of it. If you only play with negative players, you'll have a negative experience.

Look for local players in your area, local clubs or events, and expand your pool of opponents.

Also, there is often negative players who have no idea how egregious they are being, because this hobby is full of shy people who won't ever confront bad behaviour. If you explain to this negative players that they create a negative play experience, being constructive as you do so, you'll often see radical change to their behaviour because no one has ever called them out on it before. 

It's also important to not mistake passion for negativity. Often when something horrendous happens in a game, and I get tabled on turn 1 or something, it's a difficult and frustrating situation to manage, knowing that your choices lead to a complete and utter failure of a game. It takes a few minutes to process before you can return to normal. I'm not saying that this justifies bad behaviour, but sometimes a little empathy to how your opponent may be feeling during the game, as no one likes taking their toys off the table 😂

But this is all the physical gaming stuff. As for the Internet, it's the Internet, people moan and vent. You don't have to engage with it. I'm part of fifty million hobby related facesmack groups, but they aren't the be all and end all of the hobby, they're just a forum, and like any Internet forum you often have to wade through the 💩 to find the 🌟

Thanks. I have spoken to the person about their behavior. They say they are just joking afterwards, but their tone at the time is not joking it's very aggressive, and they are a very large and intimidating person.

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Interesting. I don‘t get that feeling though. Most comments on this forum are positive and they rarely devolve into the nerf debate (they usually are „pls buff my army“ debates like S2D) or they‘re purely competetive 🤔

I also never got a bad reply if I needed help with an army build .

In what Threads of the forum do you linger, if I may ask?

 

Edit: And that is coming from me, a salty Lord of Saltiness 😅

 

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13 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Interesting. I don‘t get that feeling though. Most comments on this forum are positive and they rarely devolve into the nerf debate (they usually are „pls buff my army“ debates like S2D) or they‘re purely competetive 🤔

I also never got a bad reply if I needed help with an army build .

In what Threads of the forum do you linger, if I may ask?

 

Edit: And that is coming from me, a salty Lord of Saltiness 😅

 

I don't remember the exact name but there were 5 different threads where people were bashing respectively each: OBR,  NH, LoN, HoS, and Seraphon.

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3 minutes ago, Shadowcortax said:

I don't remember the exact name but there were 5 different threads where people were bashing respectively each: OBR,  NH, LoN, HoS, and Seraphon.

The usual „this army is too strong cry“ I guess. It might be warranted for some of them though ^^. Yet as long as you play the army as you want without abusing the most broken builds I don‘t think anyone will cry about the army :)

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2 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

The usual „this army is too strong cry“ I guess. It might be warranted for some of them though ^^. Yet as long as you play the army as you want without abusing the most broken builds I don‘t think anyone will cry about the army :)

Mostly yes, but I noticed a trend of a lot of people complaining about certain things because they didn't want to play against it, even though the solution was easy-ish they just wanted it nerfed. And then the things got over nerfed and when the next big army came out the people who played the nerfed armies complained about not being able to compete because their armies were nerfed and not up to snuff unless they play a very very specific list, so their army now sorta sucks and the people who wanted it nerfed basically say "get good" because they are playing the new army. 

Hence causing an endless cycle of people pressuring GW to need certain armies, GW over doing it and then releasing another army or book that brings another army up to the level of the previous one so it can compete, but the nerfed one isn't at that standard anymore, and so now there is a new round of people want an army nerfed, so it all begins again.   

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Try not to take things too personally when people talk about armies needing a nerf etc... Sometimes hostility isn't intended its simply a rather passionate/short clipped expression. 

 

Also don't forget that people pressuring GW for change doesn't mean GW will agree or even listen to that change. GW in general isn't reading forums and reacting instantly to user feedback. The whole cycle repeats, but that is more because GW aren't great at balancing their own game. It's an issue they've had for years and relates to their attitude and style of writing game rules. Even the language they use in battletomes could be improved to help be clearer in what they are conveying. Another trick is them creating an all encompassing core rule; then making an army that breaks that rule one way then another army that breaks it another way - so when the two meet up you're left rather unsure which one takes precedence over the other. They have improved over the years, but GW are not top in the balancing department.

 

 

Again don't take things too much to heart, enjoy the game and play and don't worry if someone wants something nerfed or boosted or whatever. By and large most forum chatter is just geeks chatting, it has no impact on GW. (if it did you'd bet I'd be running 20 threads campaigning for more dragons!)

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3 minutes ago, Shadowcortax said:

I don't remember the exact name but there were 5 different threads where people were bashing respectively each: OBR,  NH, LoN, HoS, and Seraphon.

I think in general the armies like Seraphon now, Slaanesh before, that seem to be overpowered and ‘sure fire’ armies do draw more competitive people. There are plenty of tournament players that chase the white whale if balance shifts and they will jump to those army threads. Now without any judgement, from that mindset it’s somewhat understandable if things get emotional. You choose your army to give yourself the best chance to win, now the balance shifts again and all effort and money is ‘wasted’. so I just try to ignore those comments most of the time. 
 

but while writing this I’m kinda switching my opinion  

I played hockey at a high enough level where everything was about winning. To win we focussed on the proces but winning was the goal. Every game, competition games, friendlies and during practice. 
emotion do run high. Frustration happens. But within sports you have two things that doesn’t happen in tabletop. 1. Is during games you have referees. If I’m unsportsmanlike, I’m sent off. 
2. My team would, i later for younger players, check me if I crossed a line. And if I wouldn’t have learned I would’ve been dropped. But not only they checked me if became too emotional. But they would also help me learn to deal with being competitive, physical, dealing with winning and losing etc. 

and the big lesson there was always 100% accountability. Something that was close to smacked into me by older players, but still serves me well in daily life. It’s why you hear managers talk about the process after a loss. You can control the proces and take accountability. You can’t control the ref, opponent etc but they do influence if you win or not. 

thats how you build a culture where people are sportsmanlike and helped/coached/checked if they are not. Maybe a store manager could kinda act like a referee but that’s a hard spot to be in as a store manager I imagine. 
so maybe on forums and in games we should coach and help our opponents a bit more to make sure it’s a sportsmanlike culture. 

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2 minutes ago, Overread said:

Try not to take things too personally when people talk about armies needing a nerf etc... Sometimes hostility isn't intended its simply a rather passionate/short clipped expression. 

 

Also don't forget that people pressuring GW for change doesn't mean GW will agree or even listen to that change. GW in general isn't reading forums and reacting instantly to user feedback. The whole cycle repeats, but that is more because GW aren't great at balancing their own game. It's an issue they've had for years and relates to their attitude and style of writing game rules. Even the language they use in battletomes could be improved to help be clearer in what they are conveying. Another trick is them creating an all encompassing core rule; then making an army that breaks that rule one way then another army that breaks it another way - so when the two meet up you're left rather unsure which one takes precedence over the other. They have improved over the years, but GW are not top in the balancing department.

 

 

Again don't take things too much to heart, enjoy the game and play and don't worry if someone wants something nerfed or boosted or whatever. By and large most forum chatter is just geeks chatting, it has no impact on GW. (if it did you'd bet I'd be running 20 threads campaigning for more dragons!)

You can never go wrong with more DRAGONS😁

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5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I think in general the armies like Seraphon now, Slaanesh before, that seem to be overpowered and ‘sure fire’ armies do draw more competitive people. There are plenty of tournament players that chase the white whale if balance shifts and they will jump to those army threads. Now without any judgement, from that mindset it’s somewhat understandable if things get emotional. You choose your army to give yourself the best chance to win, now the balance shifts again and all effort and money is ‘wasted’. so I just try to ignore those comments most of the time. 
 

but while writing this I’m kinda switching my opinion  

I played hockey at a high enough level where everything was about winning. To win we focussed on the proces but winning was the goal. Every game, competition games, friendlies and during practice. 
emotion do run high. Frustration happens. But within sports you have two things that doesn’t happen in tabletop. 1. Is during games you have referees. If I’m unsportsmanlike, I’m sent off. 
2. My team would, i later for younger players, check me if I crossed a line. And if I wouldn’t have learned I would’ve been dropped. But not only they checked me if became too emotional. But they would also help me learn to deal with being competitive, physical, dealing with winning and losing etc. 

and the big lesson there was always 100% accountability. Something that was close to smacked into me by older players, but still serves me well in daily life. It’s why you hear managers talk about the process after a loss. You can control the proces and take accountability. You can’t control the ref, opponent etc but they do influence if you win or not. 

thats how you build a culture where people are sportsmanlike and helped/coached/checked if they are not. Maybe a store manager could kinda act like a referee but that’s a hard spot to be in as a store manager I imagine. 
so maybe on forums and in games we should coach and help our opponents a bit more to make sure it’s a sportsmanlike culture. 

That's the kinda thing I'm talking/asking about. But most of the time I've seen someone try to do that in the treads and forum that need it most people respond 1 of 4 ways: 

Ignore them and keep driving their point.

Say something like "you don't know what you're talking about".

Immediately verbally abuse/assault them. 

Accept the advice either willingly or grudgingly, but this happen so very little it's disappointing.

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Just my theory: it's not about being hostile to you (or any other poster) personally I believe, it's about sending a message to GW so to speak. Many things that get criticized get spat on because they are objectively bad; hence people repeat their dissatisfaction so that someone from GW stumbles upon it and will share the "feedback".

If a whole faction is seriously lagging behind after a recent update, people are especially frustrated. Those poor Slaves to Darkness Weakness*.

*© JackStreicher

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1 minute ago, MitGas said:

Just my theory: it's not about being hostile to you (or any other poster) personally I believe, it's about sending a message to GW so to speak. Many things that get criticized get spat on because they are objectively bad; hence people repeat their dissatisfaction so that someone from GW stumbles upon it and will share the "feedback".

If a whole faction is seriously lagging behind after a recent update, people are especially frustrated. Those poor Slaves to Darkness Weakness*.

*© JackStreicher

I understand that's what some people are doing but others are actually actively saying that "you should stop playing this faction because it's unfair" or "this faction shouldn't be in the game" and as a death player it's really depressing to try finding a answer to a question I have about my rules and the only threads I find about it are that everyone seems to hate death armies more than anything but maybe slaneesh summoning.

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16 minutes ago, Shadowcortax said:

I understand that's what some people are doing but others are actually actively saying that "you should stop playing this faction because it's unfair" or "this faction shouldn't be in the game" and as a death player it's really depressing to try finding a answer to a question I have about my rules and the only threads I find about it are that everyone seems to hate death armies more than anything but maybe slaneesh summoning.

Unfortunately, they're always going to. Where there is something to complain about, people will complain. And they can get quite vitriolic about it.

There's a statistic in business that people are 3 times more likely to complain about something than they are to speak well of it. This is true everywhere you go. You're never going to find a place where people don't complain. 

The trick is not to hyper-focus on it, or internalize it. You obviously have some investment in the armies that are being complained about. You've gotta step away from the negativity and not let it rule your head. 

This forum has great resources for players looking to learn about armies, and great people willing to help. 

I own several armies, including Ossiarch Bonereapers and Stormcast, and I'm currently collecting Lumineth Realmlords. Look elsewhere and you'll find no end of hate for each of those armies. I stick to this forum because - while there are those who complain about each of them - there's also a lot of people who are enthusiastic about them, and immersing yourself in that enthusiasm is good for the soul.

 

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3 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

May I alsorecommend the Age of Sigmar subreddit? I am myself not active there, but I always enjoy looking at Peoples first ever painted Models and the generally welcoming attitude and encouraging comments, it can be pretty wholesome. 😀
 

Thats where I started before I found this page. Most people are supportive there and even when I ask noob questions that I haven't found answers to. 

-

I like to win when I play, but I don't nice losing, because I like the part of rolling dices. 

But playing with someone that complains about rules and such, like your units are op, but then doesn't think they have some op units, that is something I don't find joy in. 

Also, I don't like when people complain about the rolls, sometimes the dice God will bless you and other times it won't. But like someone said earlier, that's the way some people are.

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Others have offered plenty- the internet can show up a lot of hyperbole, folks can be more abrupt online than they would in real life and I guess that attitude can spill into real life.  

On the opponents hating on your army - people can have bad experiences against a certain army - nothing you can do about their past experience but you can ensure that when they play you, they have a better experience. I think by being a considerate, generous opponent and showing that you play the army out of love of the faction rather than pure competitiveness you can, if not win them round, give them a good playing experience. Winning I great but a great game doesn't reply on winning, I'd rather have a fun game were my opponent enjoys it as much as I do than win with them sweating and cursing. So that could be an approach to any players who get wound up at your army- play with warmth and humour, play relaxed [trying to win obviously] and that might allow them to relax and enjoy the game too [giving you a better experience]. With the loud, big guy thats threatening your models but saying he is joking- maybe just say to him you appreciate he is joking but it can be a bit much- if he could emphasise the humour but during the game you'd appreciate it. Also give him the benefit of the doubt and try an condition yourself to think he's just joking [wether he is or not]- laugh along with him [not at him] and you'll probably have a better experence. 

I learned this through getting my ass kicked repeatedly by my mates army and whenever I went too hard at hm he'd get wound up so I realised I'd have a better time if we both enjoyed the game, I relaxed a bit more, still lost but we both had a good time. 

On the forum experience - TGA is pretty cool, I also find if you get more into the hobby discussions it gets even better.. nice bunch here.

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