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HollowHills

Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

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8 minutes ago, Tommay89 said:

The rules are very impressive, looking forward to seeing more over the next week or two!

After reading the article I am less convinced there will be a Tyrion model released with the Lumineth, they mentioned about all the models been wizards as they are students of Teclis, unless they follow two paths or something like that, but I would suggest that Tyrion may have his own faction that follow the warriors path?

More than another faction, I think that Tyrion will probably come as an "expansion" for the Lumineth, like the chambers of the Stormcast.

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15 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I am really liking how these champions seem to play. I mocked up a quick list for lolz. (Based on the leaked point values a while back).

Leaders
- Eltharion 220pts
- Stonemage 140pts

Behemoth
- Battlecattle 300(maybe)

Battleline
- 20x Spears 240pts
- 20x Spears 240pts
- 10x Archers 140pts
- 10x Archers 140pts
- 5x Cavalry 130pts
- 5x Cavalry 130pts

Other
- 10x Hammers 200pts

Total: 1880 roughly

I'd prefer something like this also rather than Teclis as he is a huge point since but 18inch fnp bubble is pretty great. Looking forward to nerding out with the book 

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5 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

I'd prefer something like this also rather than Teclis as he is a huge point since but 18inch fnp bubble is pretty great. Looking forward to nerding out with the book 

Depending on their range and number of attacks, archers seem pretty interesting too. Supposing 2 attacks each, and getting off their self-buff spell, a unit of ten deals 6.66 MW before resolving the rest of the attacks and without any need for support pieces

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So thinking about my stat preduction:

Aelves will be 3+ to hit for combat and shooting 

Spears/arrows 4+ to wound with 3+ for hammers (with MW bonus)

Recon the spearmen , 4+ AS with -1 to hit when using the ability

Hammers will be 5+ but immune to rend 1 ability

For the cav I think they will have a 4+ with a 6" pile in mechanic (and maybe bonus to wound/MW on the charge)

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I thought in the leaked batrep the hammer dudes had a 3+ and able to ignore rend -2 ? Factor in a 5+ FNP and those boys aren’t going anywhere

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Posted (edited)

Guys anyone understood how shining company rules work? Thx a lot:)

Edited by Tizianolol

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So looking at the fact that all the vanari units can cast power of hysh, I would image that all the vanari weapons will have the sunmetal ability. meaning that all our units can pack quite a punch in melee with mortal wounds left and right. 

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1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys anyone understood how shining company rules work? Thx a lot:)

going of how I understand the rule, as long as all the models are in base contact of at least 2 other models in the unit, then all units that try to strike them get -1 to hit. in exchange however that unit in base to base formation cannot run or charge and may only pile in 1".

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Ok ty, so basically when you finish your movement, if you wanna charge, just put your models separate so you can do it. If yku are grabbing an objective just stay in formation right?

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1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:

Ok ty, so basically when you finish your movement, if you wanna charge, just put your models separate so you can do it. If yku are grabbing an objective just stay in formation right?

yes. the whole army seems built around the idea of absorbing and blunting charges in a wall of Wardens whilst flanking with Alartih stoneguard and dawnriders.

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23 minutes ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

yes. the whole army seems built around the idea of absorbing and blunting charges in a wall of Wardens whilst flanking with Alartih stoneguard and dawnriders.

The only strange thing I can see is that it only begins after setting up and you cannot reform it at any time? it doesn't say that you can reform the shining company again after you break it up, so it seems you have to be extra careful of your positioning. it also creates the problem real life phalanxes had, where you cannot travel over terrain or around buildings without breaking the formation. 

It seems like a lot of hoops to jump throough for a -1 to hit!

Shining company rules.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

The only strange thing I can see is that it only begins after setting up and you cannot reform it at any time? it doesn't say that you can reform the shining company again after you break it up, so it seems you have to be extra careful of your positioning. it also creates the problem real life phalanxes had, where you cannot travel over terrain or around buildings without breaking the formation. 

It seems like a lot of hoops to jump throough for a -1 to hit!

Shining company rules.jpg

yes, your right, once the formation is broken it cannot be reformed, so all anvil and no hammer.

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3 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

The only strange thing I can see is that it only begins after setting up and you cannot reform it at any time? it doesn't say that you can reform the shining company again after you break it up, so it seems you have to be extra careful of your positioning. it also creates the problem real life phalanxes had, where you cannot travel over terrain or around buildings without breaking the formation. 

It seems like a lot of hoops to jump throough for a -1 to hit!

Shining company rules.jpg

Agreed it is a little ambiguous, but it seems like RAW you cannot reform the shining company which honestly makes no sense logically.

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I'd say it's probably intentional as a thematic rule. They deploy to battle as a glittering host, they hold formation against the initial onslaught then break ranks to attack and pursue the battered foe. At that point in all the chaos and fighting, returning to formation probably wouldn't be feasible or preferable. That's just my guess as to how they envisioned the rule. 

Overall, those rules are VERY strong, especially when you remember one of the army rules is fighting with two units when it's your turn to pick one. It's hard to comment on just how strong the army is yet, but I'd say they've done a great job of creating an army that matches the visual of an incredibly disciplined and skilled battle line. 

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I love that those are really thematic rules, you can see that they tried to make them fun for people who liked the High Elves, and on top of that some Teclis magic. Cool stuff. 

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I like the Shining Company rule.  I think it is the last little bit that has pushed me to start an Lumineth army.  I was already doing that kind of thing with my Chaos Warriors at the start of my games as I do like the look of rank and file formations even if I don't technically have to place them that way.  Heck, I oftened formed square around static objectives (mostly to protect my hero character a bit).  Even a staggered row of two keeps them within in two of each other as I far as I can tell.  With a 3" reach a fighting column might be needed sometimes, but I think a standard phalanx will hold up pretty well for holding ground from opposing Battleline infantry.

For me, the more traditional battle formations/units, hammer elves, largely based around earth/mountain elements and the idea I can have an army diametrically opposed to my current one (Darkness vs. Light) is enough of for me to start another army.  I even like the idea of the battle cattle and saying bad cow-related puns to annoy my opponent a bit.

I am just coming off painting a 200+ Death Guard commission army.  I was kinda hoping to get caught up with my current projects or at least slow the amount of painting I am doing some, but 9th 40k already kinda ruined that anyways... So why not pour gasoline on the fire?  I am sure I will find the time to paint these guys at some point.

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Regarding the Shining Company rule in my opinion its main use is as a protection against alphastrikes, especially the shooty ones..

You deploy in shining company formation and get some form of protection against armies that can hurt you first turn.

Also it can help if you face speedy close combat armies who will get the charge on you first..

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Posted (edited)

Don't get me wrong, I think it is a really cool rule. A great nod to classic rank and file. It is also interesting that the archers are gonna benefit from the rule too (makes the least thematic sense of all the Vanari but I guess they are claiming this is due to some blinding light instead of a shield wall effect).  They might be the real winners here since they're the least likely to need to run or charge.

Edited by Nighthaunt Noob
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Guys I figured it out..

they mentioned ally’s in the article today.. our mounted melee hero is the anointed flamspyre and frostheart phoenix from CoS. I’d also bet we can take Phoenix guard, anointed on foot, shadow warriors and maybe the assassin? The keywords are a bit all over the place, it’s possible we only get Phoenix temple units, but I would love some shadow warriors to go along with my army so I’m saying they are in! 😂

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All of them are wizards? That sounds amazing. I might just reconsider starting a Lumineth army after all... Personally, I also love the Shining Company rule. It's very thematic and it seems like a fun thing to play around - even if it isn't too strong, I like armies that offer interesting gameplay. Also, how would you guys paint Ghyran Lumineth? A pristine White with green accents? A light green, as if glowing with life energy? Would an all-natural, druidic stone grey theme work?

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I could be wrong, but I read the shining company rule to mean as long as each model in the unit are touching 2 bases minimum in the unit it is a shining company. Even after you move the first turn. I think it just means that any time you break rank and file formation, you lose the shining company buff, but it lasts as long as you move and reform into essentially rank and file again. 

Example: I deploy my unit of 10 spears in 2 rows of 5. They'll all be touching 2 bases. Once I move, if I stay in the formation they are all still touching 2 bases and remain a shining company. However, if I surround a big monster unit with 10 spearman and a couple die and the ring of spearman doesnt reach all they way around, making the guys on each end only come in contact with one guy next to them, the buff is lost. Or if the surrounding "ring" of spearman doesn't reach all the way around to begin with it would be lost as well. 

This would make that 3" range a massive deal, because you wouldn't have to go for a full surround or spread your models in any given unit too thin to get attacks off. 

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Posted (edited)

I still feel like it is a lot of work for that buff, but we’ll see how it works in play.  Pulling models from one edge or another is going to be the safe bet I think, and pray that we take even numbers of casualties.

 

i think that rather than rank and file, we have a ‘honeycombed’ approach that would be the best deployment to guarantee that there is as few gaps as possible. In the standard rank and file, you can have moments where you can have guys stranded without a buddy, whereas a honeycombed approach would help reduce that (I think)

 

also, I think we would have to be careful how we use the push ability, as a savvy opponent could use it to their advantage. It never says the enemy has to move directly away, and it doesnt day the back rank of the opponent can’t get closer while staying outside of 1 inch... I admit I may be paranoid, but I imagine some situations where it could happen.

Edited by Acid_Nine

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Posted (edited)

It seems like you need to have them in 2 ranks to gain the benefit as, in order to have each model within base to base of 2 other models at a time, you need even the guy o the end to have 2 dudes within base to base of him. Is this correct?

Edited by Tiberius501

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1 hour ago, Acid_Nine said:

I still feel like it is a lot of work for that buff, but we’ll see how it works in play.  Pulling models from one edge or another is going to be the safe bet I think, and pray that we take even numbers of casualties.

 

i think that rather than rank and file, we have a ‘honeycombed’ approach that would be the best deployment to guarantee that there is as few gaps as possible. In the standard rank and file, you can have moments where you can have guys stranded without a buddy, whereas a honeycombed approach would help reduce that (I think)

 

also, I think we would have to be careful how we use the push ability, as a savvy opponent could use it to their advantage. It never says the enemy has to move directly away, and it doesnt day the back rank of the opponent can’t get closer while staying outside of 1 inch... I admit I may be paranoid, but I imagine some situations where it could happen.

Yeah when I read that rule it does seem to imply that it does the exact opposite of what they are saying, and it only helps the opponent basically achieve an additional 2” pile in :/

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