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Gareth 🍄

Warhammer - The Old World

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I started in the Old World and have carried on into the Mortal Realms.  To me, the Lore of both is one continuum - an unbroken history.  How they differ is in gameplay and I have enjoyed playing AOS (and have played it much more frequently) far more than I ever did WFB.  

Also, AOS has proved very successful, whereas WFB towards the end was not.  I believe that without AOS, we would likely have no Warhammer Fantasy World at all.  I believe that it is due to this success that GW now feel that they can reinvest in the Old World.  Whatever game system they decide upon, I only hope that it has the ease of use that AOS offers.

The Old World lore has much to offer and I think that the two can compliment each other quite nicely to the enhancement of both.

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22 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

That's the thing isn't it, it's years away and we have so little information, yet we have multiple people absolutely losing their minds that GW is releasing a game that isn't specifically for them and/or earnestly proclaiming that AoS is being cancelled/squatted because of it. It's a replication of the worst behaviours of the end times and AoS launch.

Yeah, it just prooves that it's not the evil WHFB players but people in the community in general.

Heck we don't even know if this will be a game in 28mm scale like AoS. Could easily be in epic or AT scale too.

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I applaud GW's unusual transparency in announcing the existence of this so far in advance, but: imagine if they'd just stayed quiet then randomly posted an image of a new Actual High Elf mini without comment on Warhammer Community lol

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So this is the end of Warhammer Legends right? Why we haven't heard a peep about it since Cities of Sigmar was announced.

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13 minutes ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

I applaud GW's unusual transparency in announcing the existence of this so far in advance, but: imagine if they'd just stayed quiet then randomly posted an image of a new Actual High Elf mini without comment on Warhammer Community lol

I hope that they keep this transparency up and continue giving us information as the development progress of this project goes on.

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What I’m really hoping for is that they build up to a huge campaign in AoS while the old world release is approaching. In the end, Sigmar himself takes down Archaon and rips out his heart. This sacrifice gives him the power to accomplish what has been his plan all along ; the 9 realms turn into a maelstrom of magic energy, then collapse into a single planet. Years pass as the various gods wake up and their people develop their civilizations.

Then they reveal that all support for AoS is dropped: there’s a new edition, warhammer Old World. With that classic rank and file, square bases vibe that everyone loves, and no more new factions...

let’s do it. Let’s go full circle.

😂

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If this does end up being more of a specialist game, meaning they can make it a bit more complex, I wonder of they're going to treat it how many historical games cover large periods of history, but some units are only available to armies of specific time period(i.e. late roman armies vs early or mid might have a different unit selection with some shared) and designed to have armies of certain time periods fight. Obviously it's GW, so there'd be some kind of open play for so anybody can fight any body, but I'd love to see it approached as a historical with lots of campaign books.

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I genuinely do not know what to think of this. I am not an old school WHFB player, and only got into AoS fairly recently after loving Vermintide and TW:W2. 

On the one hand I am curious and would love to get into it, but also it doesn't make the most sense to me compared to something like Age of Myth or something.  For me 30k to 40k has a natural progression "this lead to that" sort of thing, and whilst that is kinda true for fantasy, the "blowing up" of the old world has more real life symbolism with how it relates to GWs attitude to fantasy post AoS announcement. It's always "The world that was" like it was some mysterious and almost taboo thing to mention, like mentioning Voldemort by name or something. That and all the legal and financial stuff around WHFB makes it seem that the blowing up of the old world is such a cataclysmic event, that it was done and over and nothing more than a slight reference when needed. Basically I see WHFB and AoS as two games (narratively and literally), rather than one. Whereas I see 30k and 40k as one game narratively, seperated by rule variations. 

At the end of the day (AND MOST IMPORTANTLY) I am happy people get to play what they want and how they want. I don't fault that at all. People should get to have it if they want it. I am just a little perplexed as to the reasoning, as it seems counter to GWs whole thinking since they end times. 

Also: SETTRA'S BACK BABY! 

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As a long time WHF fan I'm...not excited by this. But maybe I will.
The thing is, I moved on. Or better put, I nevel felt the Old World was gone. 30+ years of novels, the rpg, the videogames...the Old World was pretty much alive and kicking, there for those who want adventures in it, and I know many people still settles their KoW or 9th age battle sin that setting.

  Although I'm not a fan of AoS rulesett the game is hands down more accesible than WHF was, and I'm always interested to see the new factions and concepts GW brings to the game. I'f they just bring back WHF as it was, I'd be happy for other old fans like me, but uninterested myself. As I said, the lore is already there for me to enjoy, and other rulesets (and IMO, better) are there too.

 That being said, this thread has some interesting ideas:

- Setting being an specific, iconic time from the Old World. Or more than one. Sort of MEBSG: One year we have "armies of black skull pass" with rules and miniatures, then next year we'll have "war of the beard", and so on...of course with all these armies being compatible to batle against each other.

- Leaving room for AoS to focus on AoSified factions. Bear in mind that soem factions fit both settings really wel, as FEc and Gloomspite/Night goblins, but many others could be shoved into the Old World and leave space for all the new high-famtasy stuff.

So I am actually getting a bit excited about this, but the (comprehensible) lack of information turns me off. Which also rise the questions of why this now and why this way?



 

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9 minutes ago, Ashendant said:

So this is the end of Warhammer Legends right? Why we haven't heard a peep about it since Cities of Sigmar was announced.

maybe not.

We don't know how any of this will pan out, It may be legends on steroids, legends being the old world armies but with AoS rules.

It might well be the same, nut now you have a dedicated team cranking out stuff with a very serious attitude to it because the resources are there to do it right.

If that's the case, great, but again, WHFB longbeards will rage that it's still round bases and AoS rules so "not fantasy"

A good friend of mine is one such person - he's tried legends but to him its still not, and never will be fantasy.  He wants trays, ranks and flanks. end of.

 

Or it could get the 30K treatment.

Warhammer 9th edition had already been written. There's still so much love for the tomb kings and Bretonnians, but perhaps the mothership just can't bring itself to see how they will slot into the new AoS universe.   The moulds are all sat doing nothing, and it would be no hardship to bring them back to life if there is demand.

If they reinvigorate 9th edition then you have two very separate systems that don't tread on each others toes, and very obviously different as is the case with 30k and 40k.  Albeit this was slightly different in so far that FW had invested so much in the 30k universe and books that for them it would have been suicide to ask customers to cough up again for their sacred black books once again.  It was just easier taking the existing 7th edition rules set and massaging it to fully suit the age of darkness.

 

It's the ideal pickup for FW to run with because ultimately it will be specialist and niche whichever way you look at it.

It wouldn't take a lot to tidy up either, and that's by using lessons learn't from AoS of all things.

Army composition for example- (for all you new guys),  your army had to have 25% core troops.  in 2000 points that was 500 points.

Great if you were a chaos warrior army as 20 warriors smashed that, so the spend was a couple of boxes.

But orc and goblins and skaven players were stuffed - 500 points of slaves or goblins was literally 100 pounds, five boxes or more to meet minimal legality.

I'd change that to the AoS / 40k model where you have minimum unit sizes to meet minimum requirements.

 

But I'm digressing - we don't know what it is, or when it is.  But there's a hype train already left the station and gaining weight with every hour that passes!

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Just now, Jator said:

So I am actually getting a bit excited about this, but the (comprehensible) lack of information turns me off. Which also rise the questions of why this now and why this way?

It's a major project for GW so news now means

1) They can get an idea of the markets appeal for the product. If everyone was screaming hate and bile and loathing it then GW might have considered shelving it or adjusting it to overcome the issues people would be screaming about. 

2) At the same time if they get lots of positive feedback that's a good thing to show investors and the management that this a project worth investing into and that there is active and actual market interest

3) GW knows that its a long way off and every day since the end of Old World meant more of that fanbase either drifts away from GW or even model making. So this news is designed to engage them before more are lost. Remember in 2 or 3 yeares time the idea of GW bringing the whole game back (let alone any removed factions) is likely to be near impossible without this bit of news

4) It's a warning to GW's competitors in the rank and file market; they've now got a few years to either shift tactics or really solidify themselves. GW is basically throwing down a gauntlet at them. It also might help discourage some 3rd parties even starting up the idea if they think that GW is going to muscle back in (of course at the same time others are going to rub their hands with glee at being able to 3rd party supply GW fanswith a fresh wave of model types

 

In general this is GW testing the waters as well as likely part of a broader long term marketing campaign designed to build interest LONG before the product launch. Remember back to AoS's "surprise" launch and how terribly that went. GW is basically aiming to avoid that by starting marketing much earlier than normal for a much bigger than normal project. It makes full sense to tease info out and be up front about the time it will take to bring to market. 

Plus any leaks that might make it out at least now have a dated reference point rather than people guessing that "OMG I've heard old world is back it could be tomorrow" rumours doing the rounds over and over again. 

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29 minutes ago, Ashendant said:

So this is the end of Warhammer Legends right? Why we haven't heard a peep about it since Cities of Sigmar was announced.

They did say that points for Legends would be rolled out in the new year, so I'd assume any Empire, Dwarfs or High Elf Legends would wait until then as well.

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Yeah...don't know what to make about this annoucement. It's too early ( like 3-4 years maybe more) to be hyped up. Don't know what it'll look like, what we can expect (lore and miniatures wise)

So... yeah ? I guess ? I mean i love fantasy lore more than AoS (to be fair Josh Reynold's run on Death / Sigmar was just perfect) in lore but the game mechanic of Aos is just perfect for me...so without much more info...I'll be waiting to see where it lead before being happy or disappointed.

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It'll be like sisters of battle - there's going to be a brets vs tombkings starter set that will get everyone frothing, sell out within 2 minutes and cement the profits for the next decade .

Then someone will complain that there's no AoS warscrolls for them.

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I hope they make it in such a way that it covers players of 9th Age and KoW (mutlibasers) so that those previously alienated can hop back in.

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Is it possible that it is also they intend to have a whole swath of novels to cover this period of Old World history.

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10 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

They did say that points for Legends would be rolled out in the new year, so I'd assume any Empire, Dwarfs or High Elf Legends would wait until then as well.

Did they specifically said new year? I just remember them mentioning it after Cities of Sigmar and later this year.

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3 minutes ago, Ashendant said:

Did they specifically said new year? I just remember them mentioning it after Cities of Sigmar and later this year.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

Quote

What’s more, in the near future, we’ll be giving all Warhammer Age of Sigmar Legends the same treatment, meaning they too will be getting matched play points for your battles. You’ll see these rolled out in the new year. 

That's for points. I'm just speculating that Empire, Dwarfs, and High Elves are waiting until then too.

Edited by bsharitt

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I wonder how, psychologically speaking, players are effected by now knowing that eventually the world ends and all these little battles and rivalries are pointless from a fatalistic perspective.

I guess players play historical games when the real-world end result is known, so maybe it's not a big deal.

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6 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

Ah right I remember that. I don't remember that specific date but it's still nice to hear. I mostly just want to see the made to order stuff so I can upload their old miniatures with round bases on the Lexicanum. 😜

Edited by Ashendant

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15 minutes ago, Nostok said:

Is it possible that it is also they intend to have a whole swath of novels to cover this period of Old World history.

I wonder if all the Warhammer Chronicles and Omnibuses they've been releasing lately have been selling well and that played a part in the decision to do this. It seems like this might be a perfect storm of rank-n-flank games like KoW, ASOIAF, etc doing well and the old lore gaining a whole new audience thanks to TotalWarhammer(which I sure is driving sales of those Warhammer Chronicles books to a decent degree) and GW is going to try to capitalize.

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1 hour ago, Panzer said:

Heck we don't even know if this will be a game in 28mm scale like AoS. Could easily be in epic or AT scale too.

I’d really love this, a 28mm mass battle game like the old Warmaster, written with the elegance of AT. I’d actually pick that up, unlike a new WHFB, especially if new WHFB is just a slightly tidied up version of the dreadful 8th ed ruleset. Sticking with that over, say, the cleaner 6th edition rules seems to have hit 9th Age hard from the get go.

That said it feels unlikely, just in a preliminary sense. They’re talking about square bases and using the old branding so I would suspect whatever they go with will be closer to WHFB. 

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4 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

I’d really love this, a 28mm mass battle game like the old Warmaster, written with the elegance of AT. I’d actually pick that up, unlike a new WHFB, especially if new WHFB is just a slightly tidied up version of the dreadful 8th ed ruleset. Sticking with that over, say, the cleaner 6th edition rules seems to have hit 9th Age hard from the get go.

That said it feels unlikely, just in a preliminary sense. They’re talking about square bases and using the old branding so I would suspect whatever they go with will be closer to WHFB. 

Considering new GW loves giving everything a new awesome twist I'd say chances that this one is going to be WHFB just slightly tidied up is about zero. ;) 

That being said, my favourite was actually the 7th edition. It had it's issues of course, but no edition was ever perfect and most of my problems were more due me playing Tomb Kings who only had a 6th edition armybook that didn't translate very well into 7th edition. :D

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