Squatting Watch: Alerts for Discontinued Models

[Ollie Grimwood]

@Dr Ben top post.  Great list of options 

[Ashendant]

Lexicanum

I've checked the list and most shop images are already there. I've updated a few with images of higher quality. All that needs to be done is check the 360º images for the War Altar and the Skycutter.

I think after the split I'll need someone to check the Fantasy Battle miniature images so we can give them the correct labelling and remove the repeats.

[Kyriakin]

I never really liked High Elves but, as an aside, has any WHFB player base been screwed over any harder? 

Assuming they had models, TK players have had a solid faction for years - albeit with a Sword of Damocles over them the whole time - as they were wiped out together as one whole thing with a large roster of options. 

Unlike, say, Darkling Covens, Wanderers, Dispossessed, Free People's, (etc.) - which had GHB allegiances and an OK range of options - High Elves got split into a million barely playable micro factions for years, and have now suddenly been almost fully wiped out.

In addition they remain as one of the few WHFB armies with no spiritual successor faction, with just sporadic hints of "angelic aelves" at some unknown point in the future. 

That's not even mentioning the Spire of Dawn fiasco...

Edited August 4, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Overread]

Well one can argue that TK and Brets got it worse than high elves - because both those armies were removed in their entirety. Orks also got shattered into subfactions; lost the original most orky core ork models (Greenskins) and lost most of their goblin content (yes its technically there in Gloomspite, but its fragmented off and really its own whole army now - so gobbos did well).

 

Meanwhile orks have been left with 2 armies (once 3) which are actually pretty similar in dynamics. The only difference is one lot wears thick stormcast style armour and the other doesn't. Otherwise they've lost a lot of their flavour and both the remaining forces lack a unique feel to them. 

[Ashendant]

5 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

As an aside, has any WHFB player base been screwed over any harder than High Elves? 

Assuming they had models, TK players have had a solid faction for years - albeit with a Sword of Damocles over them the whole time - as they were wiped out together as one whole thing with a large roster of options. 

High Elves got split into a million barely playable micro factions (unlike, say Darkling Covens, Wanderers, Dispossessed, Free People's, etc., which had GHB allegiances, and a solid roster)  for years, and have now been almost fully wiped out.

In addition they remain as one of the few WHFB armies with no spiritual successor faction, with just sporadic hints of "angelic aelves" at some unknown point in the future. 

High Elves definitely got shafted and I agree that there were too many microfactions made out of the Dark Elves and High Elves.

I hope this is not the last we hear of these factions. The Lion Rangers with new units could make a great support for the Wanderers + Kurnothi faction as they are also nomadic like the Wanderers. 

[Kamose]

7 hours ago, Luke82 said:

(I know, I know, legends is available, but playing AoS without the latest filth list is generally an exercise in futility so telling people they can still use them in legends is bunk).

This is extremely hyperbolic. This is only true if you play at the top tables in Matched Play at the biggest tournaments. In other words it is true for a small fraction of games played by an even smaller fraction of players globally.  It's not even true at most tournaments or else every game at every tournament would be FEC, DoK, Skaven, and LoN fighting each other. If the stats show anything it's that there are a huge variety of armies at every event. I don't think all the Beastclaw, Slaves to Darkness, Stormcast, Seraphon, etc. players are masochists that just enjoy losing every game...which is good since they don't lose every game. They even 'gasp' win some tournaments!

Of course legends is not available in Matched Play and for those of you whose armies have lost warscrolls, you have my sympathies. Just think of this as a chance to explore new army lists and play styles.

As for models being invalidated, that's simply not true. At the end of the day every Freeguild Guard, Elf Spearman, and Dwarf Warrior are just humanoids with a melee weapon on a 25mm base. The only parts of that description that ultimately matters are "melee weapon" and "on a 25mm base". I can use my entire high elf army in the new book. The warscrolls that represent the model's rule might have changed; maybe my Reavers are now called Pistoliers but that's what Sharpies are for. Just cross out Pistoliers and write in Reavers...or just tell your opponent you're using your Reavers as Pistoliers. I'm sure that between all of use here we could find warscrolls to represent every discontinued model.

If the problem is that you weren't able to buy the model you wanted before it was discontinued, again you have my sympathies. It's unfortunate but others on here have already explained why discontinued models are necessary and inevitable.

PS: I know many people think this wasn't handled well and you are right. However, I would argue that there is no way to handle this well. If GW discontinued any model and emailed everyone personally with their exact amount of remaining stock, updated hourly, and predicted sell out date months in advance, this thread would look pretty much the same.

[Luke82]

They could have been upfront with what was getting the chop long before it went out of stock, instead of increasing their visibility with community articles and new GHB rules for mercs and duping people into buying them, and let those of us who like the models for other stuff snap em up. To say this is how it has to be is beyond daft. 

Yes you can ‘counts as’ till your hearts content, just the same as I could glue Peppa Pig toys to a base and sharpie a name on it... to each there own I guess.

AoS is a tournament led game now, despite how it may have started, so yeah I stand by saying that ‘legends’ is a useless place to find yourself playing from. You will get trounced, regardless of what tournament stats say (as you say they aren’t matched legal so wouldn’t even feature in tournament stats, so I don’t really get your point here.)

 

[Sartxac]

Hello, now i'm building a army of beastclaw raiders more gutbusters. Any idea of the continuity of all of this models?

I want a army with suport from games-workshop (i needn't a ultra competitive tier 1-2 army but this must be playable).

For this moment, i purchase te battle starter of beastclaw raiders and 9 ogors. In this week i want purchase 1 x Ironblaster,
6 x Ironguts , 3 x Leadbelchers, Thundertusk Beastriders.

In Spain this is  huge spend of money and i am very worried for the continuity of this models after read this topic (i only have a LoN and FEC army and iron warriors in 40k). This would be my last AoS army. And if workshop not join this batteltomes or canceled the models i will sell the soldiers that i have already bought.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Sartxac

[Overread]

4 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

Hello, now i'm building a army of beastclaw raiders more gutbusters. Any idea of the continuity of all of this models?

I want a army with suport from games-workshop (i needn't a ultra competitive tier 1-2 army but this must be playable).

For this moment, i purchase te battle starter of beastclaw raiders and 9 ogors. In this week i want purchase 1 x Ironblaster,
6 x Ironguts , 3 x Leadbelchers, Thundertusk Beastriders.

In Spain this is  huge spend of money and i am very worried for the continuity of this models after read this topic (i only have a LoN and FEC army and iron warriors in 40k). This would be my last AoS army. And if workshop not join this batteltomes or canceled the models i will sell the soldiers that i have already bought.

Gutbusters are getting a new leader model which means 100% certain they'll get a new battletome. Also its very likely that GW is rolling beastclaw and Gutbusters into a single Ogres army. It's impossible to say if any of the models will be lost, but most should likely be replaced or kept or useable as counts-as for other gutbuster models.

[Luke82]

5 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

Hello, now i'm building a army of beastclaw raiders more gutbusters. Any idea of the continuity of all of this models?

I want a army with suport from games-workshop (i needn't a ultra competitive tier 1-2 army but this must be playable).

For this moment, i purchase te battle starter of beastclaw raiders and 9 ogors. In this week i want purchase 1 x Ironblaster,
6 x Ironguts , 3 x Leadbelchers, Thundertusk Beastriders.

In Spain this is  huge spend of money and i am very worried for the continuity of this models after read this topic (i only have a LoN and FEC army and iron warriors in 40k). This would be my last AoS army. And if workshop not join this batteltomes or canceled the models i will sell the soldiers that i have already bought.

In all honestly it’s best to wait, like Overread said Ogres are coming, but who knows in what form.

[Kyriakin]

9 minutes ago, Sartxac said:

Hello, now i'm building a army of beastclaw raiders more gutbusters. Any idea of the continuity of all of this models?

I want a army with suport from games-workshop (i needn't a ultra competitive tier 1-2 army but this must be playable).

For this moment, i purchase te battle starter of beastclaw raiders and 9 ogors. In this week i want purchase 1 x Ironblaster,
6 x Ironguts , 3 x Leadbelchers, Thundertusk Beastriders.

In Spain this is  huge spend of money and i am very worried for the continuity of this models after read this topic (i only have a LoN and FEC army and iron warriors in 40k). This would be my last AoS army. And if workshop not join this batteltomes or canceled the models i will sell the soldiers that i have already bought.

Smart money is on an ogre tome that allows mono gutbusters, mono BCR or a combination of both. 

Your models look about as safe as is possible, while I would be most worried about Gorgers, Knoblar Grots, Firebelly and the various Maneaters.

Butcher could get a new model of unknown base size, but the concept is likely safe at least. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Sartxac]

Thank's for reassuring me to Kyraikin, Luke82 and Overread. I buy the Thundertruk and wait for the complete batteltome. I want a pretty army of ogors in "mammoths" and heavy cannons. And bases decorated with snow and blue clothing.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Sartxac

[Overread]

Just now, Sartxac said:

Thank's for reassuring me to Kyraikin, Luke82 and Overread. I buy the Thundertruk and wait for the complete batteltome. I want a pretty army of ogors in "mammoths" and heavy cannons. 

The new tome isn't confirmed yet so it means that you're likely looking at least 2 months before we hear confirmed news and it could be longer; but the new duel box approaching and new leader might give some hints. 

[SentinelGuy]

18 hours ago, Greyshadow said:

Not saying you are a new player but this sort of thing hits new players the hardest.

As a grognard, I knew that when Age of Sigmar hit anything that wasn’t Khorne or Stormcast could disappear at any moment. I had the cash to buy up all the things to finish off my armies and I did. GW don’t tell you this but you have anywhere between about 4-15 years to complete your collection from the time the models are released.

New players don’t know this and they see this beautiful Swifthawk agents boxed set and decide this is the force for them. They might save up for ages with plans to expand then this happens. Not good at all.

Last Chance to Buy has not been that great as you have to be keeping a very close eye on things to ninja a popular model. It has been better than what we had though. I’d encourage all new players to do a bit of research beforehand to get a feel for how long your chosen force might be available for.

I've been playing Fantasy and then AoS for 25 years, so not really new to the game. I agree that it does punish newbies the worst, as well as those that don't follow the AoS news religiously (like me). 

[SentinelGuy]

1 hour ago, Kamose said:

This is extremely hyperbolic. This is only true if you play at the top tables in Matched Play at the biggest tournaments. In other words it is true for a small fraction of games played by an even smaller fraction of players globally.  It's not even true at most tournaments or else every game at every tournament would be FEC, DoK, Skaven, and LoN fighting each other. If the stats show anything it's that there are a huge variety of armies at every event. I don't think all the Beastclaw, Slaves to Darkness, Stormcast, Seraphon, etc. players are masochists that just enjoy losing every game...which is good since they don't lose every game. They even 'gasp' win some tournaments!

Of course legends is not available in Matched Play and for those of you whose armies have lost warscrolls, you have my sympathies. Just think of this as a chance to explore new army lists and play styles.

As for models being invalidated, that's simply not true. At the end of the day every Freeguild Guard, Elf Spearman, and Dwarf Warrior are just humanoids with a melee weapon on a 25mm base. The only parts of that description that ultimately matters are "melee weapon" and "on a 25mm base". I can use my entire high elf army in the new book. The warscrolls that represent the model's rule might have changed; maybe my Reavers are now called Pistoliers but that's what Sharpies are for. Just cross out Pistoliers and write in Reavers...or just tell your opponent you're using your Reavers as Pistoliers. I'm sure that between all of use here we could find warscrolls to represent every discontinued model.

If the problem is that you weren't able to buy the model you wanted before it was discontinued, again you have my sympathies. It's unfortunate but others on here have already explained why discontinued models are necessary and inevitable.

PS: I know many people think this wasn't handled well and you are right. However, I would argue that there is no way to handle this well. If GW discontinued any model and emailed everyone personally with their exact amount of remaining stock, updated hourly, and predicted sell out date months in advance, this thread would look pretty much the same.

A stormcast with a crossbow is a stormcast with a crossbow. Why do they need 4/5 separate unit entries? Same with the shield and hammer guys, the numerous stormcast cavalry etc.

[SentinelGuy]

4 hours ago, 123lac said:

For now. Can't have greywater fastness without cannons.

The Tempest's Eye fluff is all about how they are guarded by the Spireguard. They just killed them, so I wouldn't assume that cannons are safe...

[Charleston]

I look forward for the "Sylvaneth killed the Radio Star Greywater Fastness" Lore.

Btw, I have 2 Boxes full of "Assault on Skull Pass" Dworfs. Any Idea how to use them now? Terrain? Basing Material? Tought about some Stoned Dworfs, like in Guild Wars Lore, that are statues now.

[Skreech Verminking]

15 minutes ago, Charleston said:

I look forward for the "Sylvaneth killed the Radio Star Greywater Fastness" Lore.

Btw, I have 2 Boxes full of "Assault on Skull Pass" Dworfs. Any Idea how to use them now? Terrain? Basing Material? Tought about some Stoned Dworfs, like in Guild Wars Lore, that are statues now.

Well, I’d probably use the miners and dwarf warriors as longbeards, since they basically have more or less the same option and are duardins.

the cannon is although a very good questions, since I have literally no idea what is basically staying anymore.

Im just hoping that the cannon will be staying in some way, but have literally lost hope.

[Charleston]

Ouh, sorry, I´d ve better clarified this: I look for alternate uses, not 'count as'. Cities of Sigmar is Dead for me now, therefore I really look how to (mis?)use the minis in another way if I don´t find anyone to buy them

[Aelfric]

43 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:

The Tempest's Eye fluff is all about how they are guarded by the Spireguard. They just killed them, so I wouldn't assume that cannons are safe...

The Spireguard could still exist as a force, just with different units that make it up.  At the end of the day, Aelves made up the Spireguard and there will still be Aelves.  I'm beginning to wonder whether we will just have 3 faction keywords, Aelf, Free people and Duardin, in the Cities book and then a keyword for each city allegiance.   Then just mix and match to your taste of city, depending on its bonuses and limitations.

Also, ironically, it will be easier to use, say, Glade Guard as Shadow warriors when GG no longer exist as a warscroll, because there is nothing for the models to be confused with by an opponent.  The difficulty will be having 2 units of the same warscroll being represented by 2 different types of model,  such as having official Shadow Warriors and GG models on the table at the same time both representing the same thing, which may be a step too far.

[Kamose]

1 hour ago, SentinelGuy said:

A stormcast with a crossbow is a stormcast with a crossbow. Why do they need 4/5 separate unit entries? Same with the shield and hammer guys, the numerous stormcast cavalry etc.

This is agree with.  I think the Stormcast Battletome is rather bloated with redundant unit entries.  Its more like 2-3 armies in one Battletome than one unified force. This is why GW had to cut production of so many different model lines while designing Cities of Sigmar.  There were nearly 90 units that could have been in the Cities of Sigmar book.  With the cuts, we're down to 50ish.  That's still too many I think, but the situation before would've been ridiculous.  Every unit in the book would've had 2-3 other units that were functionally identical and redundant.

Why did Greatswords make the cut and not Swordmasters?  For GW the decision prolly came down to which molds are newer and which models sell better?  Rules(and lore)-wise the two units are pretty much two different flavors of the same thing.

[Kamose]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

I look forward for the "Sylvaneth killed the Radio Star Greywater Fastness" Lore.

Btw, I have 2 Boxes full of "Assault on Skull Pass" Dworfs. Any Idea how to use them now? Terrain? Basing Material? Tought about some Stoned Dworfs, like in Guild Wars Lore, that are statues now.

As others have said, look for pretty much any duardin infantry with a melee weapon and just use them as those.  The model really doesn't matter that much as long as you are clear with your opponent about what they are armed with and the rules you are using.  Or use them as statues in terrain, that'd be cool too.

[madmac]

10 minutes ago, Kamose said:

This is agree with.  I think the Stormcast Battletome is rather bloated with redundant unit entries.  Its more like 2-3 armies in one Battletome than one unified force. This is why GW had to cut production of so many different model lines while designing Cities of Sigmar.  There were nearly 90 units that could have been in the Cities of Sigmar book.  With the cuts, we're down to 50ish.  That's still too many I think, but the situation before would've been ridiculous.  Every unit in the book would've had 2-3 other units that were functionally identical and redundant.

Why did Greatswords make the cut and not Swordmasters?  For GW the decision prolly came down to which molds are newer and which models sell better?  Rules(and lore)-wise the two units are pretty much two different flavors of the same thing. 

Greatswords made the cut because they were Free Guild, Swordmasters didn't because they were High Aelves.

Executioners, Hammerers, and Wild Wood Rangers also fill the same role as Greatswords and are newer kits and they're still in. Guard with Halberds, Phoenix Guard, and Black Guard are all still in.  While a 90 warscroll battletome would have indeed been too much, removing redundant units was not the focus of the cuts.

It was a two-part culling, with only two consistent measures:

1. Get rid of old models, especially finecast/metal, unless they're a core unit for Free Peoples they need to function. 

2. Get rid of High Aelves.

2.5. Get rid of a couple Free People models that love Karl Franz a little too much.

Simple as that, done.

I'm not even complaining at this point, I just don't understand how people are reading the grand designs of the cunningly crafted CoS battletome in the mix. The point was to remove models they didn't want to support anymore, and they did.

Edited August 4, 2019 by madmac

[dekay]

7 minutes ago, madmac said:

Get rid of a couple Free People models that love Karl Franz a little too much.

This one is a bit baffling, given that they left the kit that allows you to build *actual Karl Franz*

[Ollie Grimwood]

20 minutes ago, Kamose said:

This is agree with.  I think the Stormcast Battletome is rather bloated with redundant unit entries.  Its more like 2-3 armies in one Battletome than one unified force. This is why GW had to cut production of so many different model lines while designing Cities of Sigmar.  There were nearly 90 units that could have been in the Cities of Sigmar book.  With the cuts, we're down to 50ish.  That's still too many I think, but the situation before would've been ridiculous.  Every unit in the book would've had 2-3 other units that were functionally identical and redundant.

Why did Greatswords make the cut and not Swordmasters?  For GW the decision prolly came down to which molds are newer and which models sell better?  Rules(and lore)-wise the two units are pretty much two different flavors of the same thing.

Yeah Greatswords over swordmasters is fairly easy nice newish plastic kit over very old 2d looking metal/resin but wasn’t just greatswords there’s also Executioners and Wildwood Rangers. Massive redundancy in  the old elf ranges they all had a spear unit, they all had an archer unit, a double handed weapon unit etc even more so with Dark/High Elves. At least shield Stormcast (Liberators) only have one kit and Warscroll for example.