The Rumour Thread

[Overread]

At the same time udpating Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cults and Necrons (to come) will also show that big updates work too. Thing is players are only going to buy so many armies. Most will have one or two over time. So adding more and more eventually runs you out of people to buy into them. 

 

As a result you do reach a point where instead of going for more and more new armies you have to diversity the current ones. That person with a DoK army and Seraphon isn't going to jump on the next 4 new armies. In fact if their core armies go without updates for a long while they might not keep buying at all. However release a few new units for their DoK army and they'll get a revitalised interest which might even prompt them to engage with a new army as well. If its a massive update then a second-wave is just the same in volume sales potential as a new army - with an added guarantee that most of the current customers will be buying into it. 

 

I think what we are seeing with AoS is instead of GW going deep with armies they are going broad with range first. I think there's also a big push by them to have more races and factions instead of what happened with 40K - having one race/faction that dominates. Don't forget whilst 40K looks like it has fewer armies, it makes up for it a lot with multiple space marine sub-factions There's 13 Spacemarine subfactions and whilst they do share many of the same core units, that's 13 "different" armies under one bracket. That's pretty much a full grand alliance right there. The only reason it looks less on the outside is because those 13 factions do share the same core block of models each - ontop of upgrade packs and unique heroes/sculpts in each one. 

[Chikout]

A lot of what gw has done recently has been pretty popular. The only products that I can think of which didn’t sell are the massively overpriced blood of the Phoenix box and the Khorne Slaanesh demon box. A lot of the newer armies feel like they have been partially designed to bring in old warhammer fans. The Lumineth are directly targeted at old high elf fans. The gloomspite is largely just better sculpts if old models. OBR is pretty new but it definitely nods towards the tomb kings. The only armies that really feel different are the KO and the Idk. 

All this is just saying that they don’t have much else to bring over from the old world. Maybe dark elves, vampires and an empire equivalent. While we are all very impatient gw has at least a ten year plan for AOS. I will be surprised if there is more than a maximum of three new armies in a given year. In fact before this year gw has been doing just one all new army each year. 2015 Stormcast, 2016 fyreslayers, 2017 ko,  2018 idk and obr in 2019. The other waves of miniatures: DoK, gloomspite, StD, sylvaneth, ironjawz, nighthaunt, and the 4 chaos god releases are all expansions of existing ranges. So that’s 20 major waves of minis in 5 years (3 waves of Stormcast) with an average of One all new faction and 3 expansions a year. I see no reason why gw won’t continue in more or less that fashion for the foreseeable future. 

[Nighthaunt Noob]

28 minutes ago, Chikout said:

A lot of what gw has done recently has been pretty popular. The only products that I can think of which didn’t sell are the massively overpriced blood of the Phoenix box and the Khorne Slaanesh demon box. A lot of the newer armies feel like they have been partially designed to bring in old warhammer fans. The Lumineth are directly targeted at old high elf fans. The gloomspite is largely just better sculpts if old models. OBR is pretty new but it definitely nods towards the tomb kings. The only armies that really feel different are the KO and the Idk. 

All this is just saying that they don’t have much else to bring over from the old world. Maybe dark elves, vampires and an empire equivalent. While we are all very impatient gw has at least a ten year plan for AOS. I will be surprised if there is more than a maximum of three new armies in a given year. In fact before this year gw has been doing just one all new army each year. 2015 Stormcast, 2016 fyreslayers, 2017 ko,  2018 idk and obr in 2019. The other waves of miniatures: DoK, gloomspite, StD, sylvaneth, ironjawz, nighthaunt, and the 4 chaos god releases are all expansions of existing ranges. So that’s 20 major waves of minis in 5 years (3 waves of Stormcast) with an average of One all new faction and 3 expansions a year. I see no reason why gw won’t continue in more or less that fashion for the foreseeable future. 

I'd consider Nighthaunt an all new army too. It is basically the same new to old ratio as OBR.

[Icegoat]

The fastest and best selling army in the game is human led cities of sigmar this is always obvious when visiting the online store. It is high time the new aos human faction is released I'm tired of using freeguild warriors that are half the height of grots and chaos marauders let alone the 9 foot tall elves. All the new armies so far have been distractions. Its  kear GW still sells so many of the old empire kits that they cant change the aesthetic too much but they need to release new humans asap. Like it should have happened in 2016 and we are still waiting now. 

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

At the same time udpating Sisters of Battle and Genestealer Cults and Necrons (to come) will also show that big updates work too. Thing is players are only going to buy so many armies. Most will have one or two over time. So adding more and more eventually runs you out of people to buy into them. 

 

As a result you do reach a point where instead of going for more and more new armies you have to diversity the current ones. That person with a DoK army and Seraphon isn't going to jump on the next 4 new armies. In fact if their core armies go without updates for a long while they might not keep buying at all. However release a few new units for their DoK army and they'll get a revitalised interest which might even prompt them to engage with a new army as well. If its a massive update then a second-wave is just the same in volume sales potential as a new army - with an added guarantee that most of the current customers will be buying into it. 

 

I think what we are seeing with AoS is instead of GW going deep with armies they are going broad with range first. I think there's also a big push by them to have more races and factions instead of what happened with 40K - having one race/faction that dominates. Don't forget whilst 40K looks like it has fewer armies, it makes up for it a lot with multiple space marine sub-factions There's 13 Spacemarine subfactions and whilst they do share many of the same core units, that's 13 "different" armies under one bracket. That's pretty much a full grand alliance right there. The only reason it looks less on the outside is because those 13 factions do share the same core block of models each - ontop of upgrade packs and unique heroes/sculpts in each one. 

I agree and hope you are correct. I think their branching out and getting in the foundations of every Race and Faction as they can and then going back and bulking each up over time. If that's the case I applaud GW for this as 40K has been pretty damn stagnant in terms of new Races outside of Mechanicus and Knights.

[michu]

To all people afraid of GW not updating their older armies. Look at the Necrons.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

The only armies that really feel different are the KO and the Idk. 

KO is a nod to the engineers guilds of the old world (of which the engineer and gyro's remain), and the name "Overlord" is also the name of the armoured zeppelin of the Squats. The armament of infantry also fits Squats.

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, Icegoat said:

The fastest and best selling army in the game is human led cities of sigmar this is always obvious when visiting the online store. It is high time the new aos human faction is released I'm tired of using freeguild warriors that are half the height of grots and chaos marauders let alone the 9 foot tall elves. All the new armies so far have been distractions. Its  kear GW still sells so many of the old empire kits that they cant change the aesthetic too much but they need to release new humans asap. Like it should have happened in 2016 and we are still waiting now. 

Hey you’re back! 
your claims of cities being the best selling army I never found confirmed not anecdotally nor through numbers. 
any proof of it now? 

[Nezzhil]

Sorry for the Chaos players, but 2019 was a big year for the Chaos Faction. Chaos can wait one or two years been a minor faction before the rest of the factions receives the same love from Workshop. More Chaos things will be becoming a "Space Marine love" that makes 40k so boring for a lot of us.

[Overread]

Chaos did get new warriors and knights in their start collecting set. I'm still of the opinion that multi-part regular versions of those should be appearing "at some stage". That GW didn't pull the original models suggests its a good way off yet, but I expect it to happen. GW did say in an interview that the last releases have been very Death focused and that they were now moving onto Destruction in a bigger way. We already have the Giants coming and perhaps more for Destruction - perhaps an update to Orruks or a totally new faction or two

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Hey you’re back! 
your claims of cities being the best selling army I never found confirmed not anecdotally nor through numbers. 
any proof of it now? 

Aren’t all those fantasy players back in the days with their 20’000points or more of empire, Dwarfs, or dark elves not enough proof for you😂😜 

[KingBrodd]

10 minutes ago, Overread said:

Chaos did get new warriors and knights in their start collecting set. I'm still of the opinion that multi-part regular versions of those should be appearing "at some stage". That GW didn't pull the original models suggests its a good way off yet, but I expect it to happen. GW did say in an interview that the last releases have been very Death focused and that they were now moving onto Destruction in a bigger way. We already have the Giants coming and perhaps more for Destruction - perhaps an update to Orruks or a totally new faction or two

Destruction is the Alliance that definitely needs the most love. Sons of Behemat are a perfect addition and I cannot wait to see what they will add, wether that be another new Faction (Sun Grots, Grottbag Scutlers) or adding new units to Orruk Warclans and Ogor Mawtribes. Another Faction of Orruks would be awesome, simply the Classic Orc Warrior with updated sculpts. Weaker than Ironjawz but in far greater number with Chariots and War Machines.

[Overread]

Personally I'd really love to see GW do one of two things with Destruction.

1) Give Orruks some love - they need it and if they got the Gloomspite Gitz attention it would be fantastic for them! 

2) Give us something that is NOT an ork, ogor or giant. Ergo something that is an utterly new destruction concept from the ground up. Perhaps even a new race. Something that is just really unique and plays with the themes. 

[EccentricCircle]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Hey you’re back! 
your claims of cities being the best selling army I never found confirmed not anecdotally nor through numbers. 
any proof of it now? 

If I'm reading it correctly they seem to be arguing that freeguild are popular because they are often out of stock. The assumption being that GW must produce the same volume of any kit, so things thatgo out of stock must sell well. Personally I think that's a false assumption, as they are unlikely to make the same amount of things that don't sell as well, but for purposes of the benefit of the doubt, I guess we don't actually have any hard numbers on what gets made.

 

on another note, I wouldn't expect Slaanesh mortals any time soon, when everyone was sad* that the tome didn't come with mortal cultists they seemed to be a bit blindsided by the criticism and just kept saying "but... Warcry!" I don't think that they recognised a demand existed. Just speculation, but that was my read of the situation.

 

 * i guess there may in fact have been people who weren't sad.

Edited June 27, 2020 by EccentricCircle

[Overread]

GW community reps are mostly stuck repeating the company line; if something people want isn't out the community repss can't change much, so they can note it and pass it along, but otherwise directing people are things like warcry was the right and only choice they've got. And lets be fair some of those warbands - like the Unmade - SCREAM SLAANESH from every oozing wound on them.

 

That said I fully expect to see Slaanesh get a chunky update at some stage - esp considering the other 3 gods have already got a good display of mortal followers. Then again I'd love them to revise depravity to make the tome more than "just take loads of those awesome keeper models" 

[novakai]

10 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Aren’t all those fantasy players back in the days with their 20’000points or more of empire, Dwarfs, or dark elves not enough proof for you😂😜 

You mean the ones bought when things where affordable and price gouging wasn’t a thing 

[EccentricCircle]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

GW community reps are mostly stuck repeating the company line; if something people want isn't out the community repss can't change much, so they can note it and pass it along, but otherwise directing people are things like warcry was the right and only choice they've got. And lets be fair some of those warbands - like the Unmade - SCREAM SLAANESH from every oozing wound on them.

 

That said I fully expect to see Slaanesh get a chunky update at some stage - esp considering the other 3 gods have already got a good display of mortal followers. Then again I'd love them to revise depravity to make the tome more than "just take loads of those awesome keeper models" 

Oh I'm sure they'll come, just maybe not for a couple of years. It really felt more like a 40k release, which also served AoS, endless spells not withstanding.

[novakai]

Haven’t been on this forum in awhile but AoS 3.0 my guess is Stormcast vs Ironjawz

[Icegoat]

Well the cities of sigmar forces are far more out of stock than most of the new order factions so unless they purposefully only make one unit of freeguild for every 10 fyreslayers I think it's safe to assume what gets purchased more. Also I know about of many cities of sigmar collectors. The vast array of units make it very attractive. All the new factions are two or three infantry one monster one cavalry armies. It gets old. Gw are mad to still not have a human faction out and it can only because of how well the current ones sell otherwise they would for sure try something new.  See every aos army released. Elves dead? Idoneth and lumineth. Dwarves old hat? Fyrelsayers and khatadeon. Skeletons clogging the shelves? Ossiarchs and nighthaunt. Its clear the old empire models dont have this problem.

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

 

2) Give us something that is NOT an ork, ogor or giant. Ergo something that is an utterly new destruction concept from the ground up. Perhaps even a new race. Something that is just really unique and plays with the themes. 

Elemental Bug Men!

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Overread said:

Personally I'd really love to see GW do one of two things with Destruction.

1) Give Orruks some love - they need it and if they got the Gloomspite Gitz attention it would be fantastic for them! 

2) Give us something that is NOT an ork, ogor or giant. Ergo something that is an utterly new destruction concept from the ground up. Perhaps even a new race. Something that is just really unique and plays with the themes. 

I've always thought of a Beastmen like army would do well for Destruction and I dont mean Beasts of Chaos Beastmen like Gors but more so different Bipedal Animals such as Rhinos and Hippos, Elephants and such but taken up to an 11 in an AOS style.

11 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Elemental Bug Men!

An Insect race would be awesome, make them different to Tyranids in theme though so perhaps they're not all consuming but just territorial of their Hives when enemies encroach on them.

[Baron Klatz]

6 hours ago, Icegoat said:

Gw are mad to still not have a human faction out and it can only because of how well the current ones sell otherwise they would for sure try something new. 

Nah, they talked about their plans for humans back 2017 Warhammer World. They want to theme them all around the realms as true natives instead of Azyr colonists (the older models). You can see the new human designs in the Corebook for each realm.

Productions take them 3-4 years though and with a project that big we likely won't see anything until next year with a possible Excelsis campaign so at most we only got Warcry realm chaos human prototypes for now.

Probably a reason why you see Freeguild off the shelves. Clearing stock for the change like with what happened to last year's greenskinz and Asur before the big model-line purge. CoS serving as a model push.

6 hours ago, novakai said:

Haven’t been on this forum in awhile but AoS 3.0 my guess is Stormcast vs Ironjawz

Same. Feels a big build up to it and both lines are due more models(especially since the Orruk Tribes got nothing for their update besides cool new rules).

Also, people were talking about possible chaos future factions and my vote goes to the Ogroid and Fomoroids races. They have interesting histories tespectively as realm native creatures that were Destruction outcasts or enslaved empire builders which would make cool story arcs for both races to make a comeback under chaos.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Baron Klatz

[FFJump]

6 hours ago, Overread said:

2) Give us something that is NOT an ork, ogor or giant. Ergo something that is an utterly new destruction concept from the ground up. Perhaps even a new race. Something that is just really unique and plays with the themes. 

Honestly, just continue the Fimir range in plastic since FW has stopped selling them and release those Meargh, Dirach, and Shearl models shown several years ago. There's enough  wiggle room to basically expand upon their lore in AoS which right now is just a few sentences from their warscrolls. Introduce more units and expand upon the idea they were disowned by the Chaos gods. Would be interesting to have a fully-fledged Destruction race that has ties to Chaos without being Chaos.

Also, has this already been posted (please delete if not allowed)? Shipping manifest for Warhammer Underworlds Arena Mortis.

Quote

Arena Mortis is also the name of a mini-game from the July White Dwarf last year. It was basically Warhammer Underworlds with only one board and one character per player. Probably a boxed version of that in a board-game style like the Warhammer Underworlds: Dreadfane?

Quote

  

Edited June 28, 2020 by FFJump

[Indecisive]

It's not a race with new factions, they might end up with 30+ or not. Better to pace it out a bit.
Too many one-and-done factions doesn't encourage me to buy anything. I don't want to buy something intended to be forgotten.

[Grudgebearer]

Any news on the GHB release  ?