The Rumour Thread

[EntMan]

58 minutes ago, Snarff said:

We have those in cities so far. I do think we need expansions first for FS and KO before we get another Duardin faction, just like Idoneth needs one before we get even more Aelves. FS and KO are both integral parts of the lore and really need some presence and impact.

I was saying this in response to the comments leaning towards not having Duardin in Cities any more. I was saying this is why we need top keep them in Cities.

And for what it's worth I think the new humies and old dwarves already look like they fit together in the same army.

In fact, of it turns out that Duardin are removed from Cities, then my Cities army is going to have to have a unit or two of Freeguild (or whatever they'll be called) who happen to be particularly short humans with beards.

Edited May 11, 2023 by EntMan

[zilberfrid]

8 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I genuinely don't understand why they can't communicate that "Heads up, these models are going out of production and by next edition, their rules will be Legends". I don't even think it would hurt sales, because there are probably people who would have picked up, let's say, a few extra Fimir or a Merwyrm if they had known they'd go out of production instead of being blindsided by it.

Yeah, I had been eyeing the Mournghul for a big bad monster in my rpg game, but I'll have to find something else.

[Vasshpit]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, I had been eyeing the Mournghul for a big bad monster in my rpg game, but I'll have to find something else.

Always thought that obr spell would be a good Proxy. 

[zilberfrid]

25 minutes ago, EntMan said:

I was saying this in response to the comments leaning towards not having Duardin in Cities any more. I was saying this is why we need top keep them in Cities.

And for what it's worth I think the new humies and old dwarves already look like they fir together in the same army.

In fact, of it turns out that Duardin are removed from Cities, then my Cities army is going to have to have a unit or two of Freeguild (or whatever they'll be called) who happen to be particularly short humans with beards.

I made some halflings from Bretonnisn Bowmen and a few other models to include in my Guard.

[zilberfrid]

20 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Always thought that obr spell would be a good Proxy. 

I don't think the spell looks very good, but there are options I can print. The party is still very far from ready for it anyway.

[Aeryenn]

2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

It is of course a matter of personal preferences and tastes, but I always found Cities of Sigmar to have a very strong theme: hope (at least, in an Order perspective). The very concept of the diverse set of cultures and lineages uniting, although in large part out of convenience and necessity, represented a vision for the "end game" for Order beyond mere survival.

Because of this, they are an important part of what makes AoS different from "40k but high fantasy". Personally, I find the idea of yet another spin on the "zealots" theme extremely boring so I hope it's not the whole picture of what we're getting.

And how is hope represented in minis? It isn't.

You refer to the theme desrcibed in the lore. When you look at the minis themselves however you just see a bunch of unrelated forces. Dwarfs with canons and helicopters, followed by some corsair dark elves with a war hydra and with a pinch of wood elves on deers. I can hardly think of more mismatching batch. I guess some space orkz in CoS wouldn't make much difference in terms of cohesiveness.

The lore might be great as many people review it, yet this hobby is 95% about minis and when I say "theme", I mean style of minis.

You look at Kharadron Overlords and you know straight away it's a techy faction. Idoneth Deepkin? Elves with sea creatures. Sylvaneth? Forces of nature. Maggotkin of Nurgle? Daemons and disease. I look at 5 random CoS models and I can't tell what keeps them together.

A friendly reminder: what today is CoS were actually several distinct armies 8 years ago. Bringing them under one banner was in order to not leaving people o who used to collect these armies without any support .

That's one of the things that changed between WFB and AoS. Strong theme.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Aeryenn

[RyantheFett]

1 hour ago, EntMan said:

In fact, of it turns out that Duardin are removed from Cities, then my Cities army is going to have to have a unit or two of Freeguild (or whatever they'll be called) who happen to be particularly short humans with beards.

That is my attitude to the Cities remake as well. Everything that gets cut will get a lot of kit bashing and mixing in with the new stuff. Hopefully the new stuff with come out a lot of extra pieces to help out lol. Also think having mixed units with dwarfs, elfs, and humans will also be a lot cooler then just a generic human army.

Just wish they would tell us if they did plan on pulling everything out over time. Last rumor/leak I saw it was around 50% getting removed (mostly humans tho).

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 hours ago, EntMan said:

I was saying this in response to the comments leaning towards not having Duardin in Cities any more. I was saying this is why we need top keep them in Cities.

And for what it's worth I think the new humies and old dwarves already look like they fit together in the same army.

In fact, of it turns out that Duardin are removed from Cities, then my Cities army is going to have to have a unit or two of Freeguild (or whatever they'll be called) who happen to be particularly short humans with beards.

Seeing them next to each other like that, mixing in a few dorfs with a unit of Freeguild Guard would actually look pretty good! Maybe with a shield swap?

[EntMan]

30 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

That is my attitude to the Cities remake as well. Everything that gets cut will get a lot of kit bashing and mixing in with the new stuff. Hopefully the new stuff with come out a lot of extra pieces to help out lol. Also think having mixed units with dwarfs, elfs, and humans will also be a lot cooler then just a generic human army.

Just wish they would tell us if they did plan on pulling everything out over time. Last rumor/leak I saw it was around 50% getting removed (mostly humans tho).

The more recent Old World news has given me a bit of increased confidence (hopium?) that the current Cities Aelves models will remain available as Elves again, even if they are no longer in the AoS Cities book.

[JackStreicher]

The Callis and Toll eipsode was super fun!

[Lord Veshnakar]

I’m just wondering if we are going to see Har Kuron rolled into the next COS book or if they plan to incorporate it into the next DOK book.

[EntMan]

1 hour ago, Lord Veshnakar said:

I’m just wondering if we are going to see Har Kuron rolled into the next COS book or if they plan to incorporate it into the next DOK book.

Ages ago at a preview, might have been Adepticon, might have been earlier, in the New Cities presentation we got a graphic of the emblems of the included cities. I think @Whitefang confirmed which was which.

But I'm sorry I can't recall if Har Kuron was in there. But hopefully this will prompt someone with better memory than me.

edit: I found the picture, but not the confirmation of which cities these represent.

Edit again:

From @Whitefang these are the Cities represented on the above picture:

So, based on this, no Har Kuron in new Cities.

Edited May 11, 2023 by EntMan

[KingBrodd]

8 hours ago, Snarff said:

I actually think we have quite a few of them (depending on the army of course), but they are just criminally underutilized in lore. Kharadron for example have Brokk who has been doing nothing since about 1e/2e, Idoneth have Volturnos who only really did something during Broken Realms, Sylvaneth have the Lady of the Vines who was absent since the realmgate wars, etc.

There are a ton of kits now which can build both unnamed and named heroes, but the named heroes don't really matter since their rules are usually not great and their characters do nothing in lore, are just invented for the kit and then left to rot, often in favour of old world characters or other completely new characters.

Brokk for example did nothing during broken realms, Grombrindal basically did everything that Brokk could have done. At least Drekki seems to be unique, but it remains to be seen how much he will actually contribute. As much as I like Gotrek as a character in the Mortal Realms, his story and GWs unwillingness to properly integrate him into Fyreslayers meant that the Fyreslayers lore was on near complete hold due to him being the Avatar of Grimnir. Sigvald largely stole Glutos' thunder. Gordrakk got his thunder stolen by Kragnos and has been largely in the background since. Skragrott hasn't had anything to do himself beside going along with Kragnos. King Brodd just has not done much as far as I know. And that's just a few of the examples.

And that's not even to mention characters like Maleneth who would be perfect candidates to get a model, but are completely overlooked. Large events are also basically only happening around Cities of Sigmar and the Eightpoints, while there are many more locations than just those.

I love the AoS lore, but it could really do with some more focus on the things that make it AoS and developing those.

Not to mention Ogor Mawtribes. They have 2 named characters, one for Gutbusters and BCR respectively and neither has a mini. In fact no characters or heroes exist in model form for Mawtribes.

[Twisted Firaun]

8 hours ago, Snarff said:

I actually think we have quite a few of them (depending on the army of course), but they are just criminally underutilized in lore. Kharadron for example have Brokk who has been doing nothing since about 1e/2e, Idoneth have Volturnos who only really did something during Broken Realms, Sylvaneth have the Lady of the Vines who was absent since the realmgate wars, etc.

There are a ton of kits now which can build both unnamed and named heroes, but the named heroes don't really matter since their rules are usually not great and their characters do nothing in lore, are just invented for the kit and then left to rot, often in favour of old world characters or other completely new characters.

Brokk for example did nothing during broken realms, Grombrindal basically did everything that Brokk could have done. At least Drekki seems to be unique, but it remains to be seen how much he will actually contribute. As much as I like Gotrek as a character in the Mortal Realms, his story and GWs unwillingness to properly integrate him into Fyreslayers meant that the Fyreslayers lore was on near complete hold due to him being the Avatar of Grimnir. Sigvald largely stole Glutos' thunder. Gordrakk got his thunder stolen by Kragnos and has been largely in the background since. Skragrott hasn't had anything to do himself beside going along with Kragnos. King Brodd just has not done much as far as I know. And that's just a few of the examples.

And that's not even to mention characters like Maleneth who would be perfect candidates to get a model, but are completely overlooked. Large events are also basically only happening around Cities of Sigmar and the Eightpoints, while there are many more locations than just those.

I love the AoS lore, but it could really do with some more focus on the things that make it AoS and developing those.

The saddest part of this paragraph from the great @Snarff is that all of these have awesome models!

For dwarfs as a whole I think they've been hijacked by whatever Grungni and Grombrindal have been cooking since late 2nd edition: Grombrindal's promoting excavations in old Karaks and introspections into certain parts of current dwarf cultures (abuses of The Code, Fyreslayer's stubbornness). They have some rather interesting characters, with at least three of them having actual models! But Gotrek Gurnisson, Brokk Grungsson, and Drekki Flynt (not to mention the one-off known as Jakob Bugmansson) aren't allowed to be the badasses they're meant to be until Grombrindal makes his appearance on the Grand-Stage. 

Glutos was one of the models I was most looking forward to for the Hedonites, he's essentially a Tyranid with a taste for the finer things in life and can cast magic too! unfortunately, he and every new Slaanesh champ besides Sigvald have been forced to only be their most basic selves for some reason, and it's infuriating... it's honestly the same for the other three gods and their favorite pets/lovers in the case of Valkia (except for Tzeentch but he doesn't really have any mortal champs to mess around with).

I can't complain about Grand Alliance Death because they're actually seeing movement! Neferata and Manfred have kicked off a civil war in the wake of Nagash's latest round of dementia and there's no Arkhan at the moment to mediate between the two so it's gonna get bloody (pun intended). Katakros has been infected with Chaos-Madness while besieging Archaon's crib, and it looks like the Ossiarch are marshaling for a rematch with Teclis. The Nighthaunt have inadvertently kicked off Be'lakor's ascension in the latest round of The Great Game, and The FEC seem to be rallying around someone if those new heralds are any indication..... 

Despite their lack of epic expansions in the so-called "Age of Beasts," Destruction has caused some serious damage this edition. The gargants are mobilized in a wave a rage and daddy-issues under @KingBrodd's namesake. The Gloomspite Gitz and their numerous sub-factions have called their god-aspect to greater focus and have expanded their territory across the realms. Kragnos, while controversial, has given the guys and gals of GorkaMorka someone to rally behind, and Gordrakk has been given cryptic advice from the big guy himself. All in all it's looking to be an interesting fourth edition....

PROVIDED GW ALLOWS HALF OF THIS MESS TO BE PROPERLY DEVELOPED!!!!

[Clan's Cynic]

I've less of an issue with GW dragging Fantasy characters kicking and screaming into AoS than a lot of others here, but I really wish Gotrek had stayed out of it. Regardless of whether his recent outings have been any good or not, his presence just massive dilutes the potential for the Fyreslayers to get anything resembling a headline act despite him... not being a Fyreslayer (and actively disliking them). I actually see a lot of people assuming he IS a Fyreslayer character, despite the only connection being that he's a Dwarf, has a Fyreslayer weapon and has -Slayer in his title somewhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he's sometimes viewed him the same way by GW.

Hopefully Bael-Grimnir gets his own unique model in the next Fyreslayer wave, seeing as he's the most likely candidate for Fyreslayers receiving a special character of their own. Although I wouldn't scoff at Grombrindal in a Fyreslayer 'disguise' either if it came to it.

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I've less of an issue with GW dragging Fantasy characters kicking and screaming into AoS than a lot of others here, but I really wish Gotrek had stayed out of it. Regardless of whether his recent outings have been any good or not, his presence just massive dilutes the potential for the Fyreslayers to get anything resembling a headline act despite him... not being a Fyreslayer (and actively disliking them). I actually see a lot of people assuming he IS a Fyreslayer character, despite the only connection being that he's a Dwarf, has a Fyreslayer weapon and has -Slayer in his title somewhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he's sometimes viewed him the same way by GW.

Hopefully Bael-Grimnir gets his own unique model in the next Fyreslayer wave, seeing as he's the most likely candidate for Fyreslayers receiving a special character of their own. Although I wouldn't scoff at Grombrindal in a Fyreslayer 'disguise' either if it came to it.

 

Narratively we need the Fyreslayers to have some spotlight. Tease this in Harbingers and bring us a massive Wave launch in 4.0.

Set up a character in Harbingers that is the 'Actual' spirit if Grimnir and release that model in 4.0 alongside the wave of 3-4 new units including Female Slayers.

[Twisted Firaun]

35 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Narratively we need the Fyreslayers to have some spotlight. Tease this in Harbingers and bring us a massive Wave launch in 4.0.

Set up a character in Harbingers that is the 'Actual' spirit if Grimnir and release that model in 4.0 alongside the wave of 3-4 new units including Female Slayers.

Give them a good enemy too, if Dwarfs take center stage next edition this might be the perfect time to update Skaven and possibly bring in the Dawi-Zhar as well.

[cofaxest]

4 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I've less of an issue with GW dragging Fantasy characters kicking and screaming into AoS than a lot of others here, but I really wish Gotrek had stayed out of it. Regardless of whether his recent outings have been any good or not, his presence just massive dilutes the potential for the Fyreslayers to get anything resembling a headline act despite him... not being a Fyreslayer (and actively disliking them). I actually see a lot of people assuming he IS a Fyreslayer character, despite the only connection being that he's a Dwarf, has a Fyreslayer weapon and has -Slayer in his title somewhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he's sometimes viewed him the same way by GW.

Hopefully Bael-Grimnir gets his own unique model in the next Fyreslayer wave, seeing as he's the most likely candidate for Fyreslayers receiving a special character of their own. Although I wouldn't scoff at Grombrindal in a Fyreslayer 'disguise' either if it came to it.

 

Gotrek is not a fyreslayer but he is duardin with ur-gold rune in him and avatar of Grimnir. So he could lead fyreslayers. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by cofaxest

[Grungnisson]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

Gotrek is not a fyreslayer but he is duardin with ur-gold rune in him and avatar of Grimnir. So he could lead fyreslayers. 

Live view of Gotrek leading Fyreslayers:

 

[KingBrodd]

Every finger and toe is crossed for Harbingers to be announced for Pre Order next weekend!!

[Ledgington]

Azyr coins are turning up on eBay. Maybe connected to CoS or maybe they’re just going to slowly put out coins of all the realms. Either way looks a little like a map

Edited May 12, 2023 by Ledgington

[Snarff]

9 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I've less of an issue with GW dragging Fantasy characters kicking and screaming into AoS than a lot of others here, but I really wish Gotrek had stayed out of it. Regardless of whether his recent outings have been any good or not, his presence just massive dilutes the potential for the Fyreslayers to get anything resembling a headline act despite him... not being a Fyreslayer (and actively disliking them). I actually see a lot of people assuming he IS a Fyreslayer character, despite the only connection being that he's a Dwarf, has a Fyreslayer weapon and has -Slayer in his title somewhere and I wouldn't be surprised if he's sometimes viewed him the same way by GW.

Hopefully Bael-Grimnir gets his own unique model in the next Fyreslayer wave, seeing as he's the most likely candidate for Fyreslayers receiving a special character of their own. Although I wouldn't scoff at Grombrindal in a Fyreslayer 'disguise' either if it came to it.

 

SPOILERS FOR GOTREK NOVELS:

Spoiler

Gotrek does not actively dislike Fyreslayers anymore. As of Soulslayer, he actually sees his old people in them, and is becoming more and more of one himself. He's got an immensely powerful Ur-Gold rune embedded in him (though it is currently broken/inactivated), wields a legendary Fyreslayer weapon, looks like a Fyreslayer and went to war alongside the lodge and even found a good friend in their Runefather. Also, since soulslayer he has accepted his place in the Mortal Realms, and does not want to die anymore. He wants to live a worthy life and improve life for the common man/aelf/duardin in the realms and ironically make them less reliant on the gods. I think he's shaping up to eventually accept that his kin in the realms is the Fyreslayers and properly join them. He basically is one already with Grimnir communicating with him and powering him up through his master Ur-Gold rune while wielding a fyresteel forge-axe, whether people (and Gotrek himself) like it or not. I think there is huge potential for a 'Gotrek, Avatar of Grimnir' model with only rules in Fyreslayers. GW is even already selling Gotrek under the Fyreslayers header on their website.

I would personally dislike a Grombrindal model for Fyreslayers. Especially since he's basically the avatar of Grungi now, I think he'd fit better in a new Grungi Duardin army (after KO and FS have been properly expanded), and wouldn't really add anything to Fyreslayers especially with him being yet another foot hero.

As for Bael-Grimnir, that would be a prime choice for a named model, but there's one I'd prefer. In the June 2019 White Dwarf, there was a story called 'Reignition' about how Bael-Grimnir went to war and came back to his a daughter of his already being born. Of course, this was just before Gotrek came back into the setting so it was put on hold. He's struggling to find any of his Runesons worthy of taking over the Vostargi, and wants to retake the Vosforge. He finally sees his daughter and while shocked, suddenly smiles and feels 'a bone-deep certainty about the child's destiny'. And that the Mortal Realms have changed, and that it is time for he and his lodge to change with them.

This HEAVILY implies that the Vostargi will be ruled next by said Runedaughter. I think we either need a model of her, or have some major Fyreslayer development happen with Bael-Grimnir launching a huge campaign and falling and his daughter following in his footsteps with a Runemother/Fyrequeen on foot and on Magmadroth kit, with an optional build for 'Bael-Grimnirs-Daughter'-Grimnir on Flamespitter, who she inherits or takes over from her dad.

Such a kit would FINALLY give us the first female Duardin model, and could come with a Fyreslayer range expansion with Demidroth cavalry, an upgrade/alt kit for Vulkites with female heads and bodies, and maybe even an Avatar of Grimnir centerpiece (depending on Gotrek's involvement and current state).

All that would be so much more exciting than Grombrindal to me. Yes, he's a beloved and established character, but he's also yet another old world character who would again hold back the development of some unique AoS Duardin who we heavily need in the Fyreslayer department.

[Snarff]

7 hours ago, Twisted Firaun said:

Give them a good enemy too, if Dwarfs take center stage next edition this might be the perfect time to update Skaven and possibly bring in the Dawi-Zhar as well.

I don't think Chaos Duardin would be a good enemy for Fyreslayers necessarily. It'd be double in that they're both fire-themed AND Duardin. I've always imagined them more as a dark parallel to the Kharadron.

Khorne and Fyreslayers would also probably be visually too similar, but the Vosforge is currently held by Khorne IIRC, so that would be an easy narrative setup especially if we shift the focus to Aqshy again.

Skaven always work as enemies for anyone, but personally I really like the Idoneth/Fyreslayer rivalry. Even though I know that's not going to be expanded on in major lore events, it works so well. Water versus Fire, Soul-seeking and abandoned by their god versus Carrying god-essence/spirit in their bodies, the contrast between their runes, etc.

[Snarff]

5 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Gotrek is not a fyreslayer but he is duardin with ur-gold rune in him and avatar of Grimnir. So he could lead fyreslayers. 

He basically is one. He's got the most powerful Ur-Gold rune embedded in his chest and Grimnir empowers him through it, wields a legendary Fyresteel Forge-Axe that he really likes, and fights alongside a lodge which he starts to see as his own people.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, Ledgington said:

Azyr coins are turning up on eBay. Maybe connected to CoS or maybe they’re just going to slowly put out coins of all the realms. Either way looks a little like a map

OUR FIRST LOOK AT AZYR!!

Do we think the new Cities Tome will have our first map of Azyr?