The Rumour Thread

[Bosskelot]

13 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think something to keep in mind with Skaven is that a lot of the online fanfare for them has been relatively recent.

While Skaven have always been an iconic Warhammer faction, I never remember them being especially popular in the tabletop - not underplayed, but hardly 'up there' with Warriors of Chaos and High Elves  - which is likely why they've had such limited updates over the years, but also weren't taken out to pasture like Bretonnians and Tomb Kings.

They were always one of those "I'd love a Skaven collection... BUT" armies, where people admired them from a distance but shirked away due to the cost. Horde armies are expensive in an expensive hobby, and we know what GW is like about marketing - if they weren't seeing sales figures for Skaven, they weren't going to put much effort into updating them. It's only recently they've had their finger on the pulse about anything other than raw sales data. 

It certainly wasn't until Warhammer: Total War II that the internet's fascination with them really exploded in my view and that was only five or so years ago - coincidentally not much younger than Age of Sigmar. 

Also they're a horde army that is actually kind of difficult to paint.

Lots of fiddly metallic parts and two-toned exposed areas that are both fur and skin. Comparing that to painting Night Goblins and people will go towards Night Goblins in the majority of cases.

Also doesn't help that the original multipart plastic clanrats looked dated even when they came out. That was a very awkward time as GW was still in the early days of doing multipart plastic kits; some like the original Empire state troops and Orc Boyz nailed it (Perry Twins and Brian Nelson taking big W's for that), but then you had the original Chaos Warrior kit from end of 5th ed and said Clanrats which looked uhhhh not great, even for the late 90's/early 2000's.

Of course modern clanrats look a lot better but they also came out at a time when WHFB as a whole was basically collapsing.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Bosskelot

[KingBrodd]

4 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

King Brodd abandoning Destruction.......

 

[MothmanDraws]

6 hours ago, RileyArlic said:

Moving to Ulgu, the Realm of Shadow, would set up for some sweet stuff. Eshin Skaven, expansions for the Daughters of Khaine, and finally seeing Malerion's elves. Thematically it'd be really cool, especially if we see other armies get units that focus on misinformation, assassination, etc. 

We'll see what happens. We're a long ways out from hearing any rumors about that sort of stuff. 

I would kind of like slaanesh's twins to be involved in ulgu story line, there is probably a wierd dynamic between them Morathi and Malerion. I would find it funny if the twins restart up morathis old cult of pleasure in ulgu (I have been tempted to convert up a cult of pleasure army for old world+aos)

[Warboss Gorbolg]

During the Island of Blood era you couldn’t throw a rock without hitting a rat. My anecdote is that Skaven were plenty popular and IoB was pretty close to the End Times, so not that long ago and during a great time for early AOS planning.

[JerekKruger]

4 hours ago, Bosskelot said:

... the original Chaos Warrior kit from end of 5th ed

Do you mean these dudes?

 

They did indeed look... not great at the time. If I remember correctly they were the first of GW's multipart plastic kits (ignoring the old skeletons which go way back), though thinking about it there was a newer multipart plastic skeleton kit which might have come out before them.

I actually had a whole bunch of them. Getting them to rank up was not fun.

[MitGas]

15 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Do you mean these dudes?

 

They did indeed look... not great at the time. If I remember correctly they were the first of GW's multipart plastic kits (ignoring the old skeletons which go way back), though thinking about it there was a newer multipart plastic skeleton kit which might have come out before them.

I actually had a whole bunch of them. Getting them to rank up was not fun.

It was even less fun for them - Kyphosis is a serious problem!

Perhaps they were the most accurate depiction of Chaos warriors though, those helmets are bound to cause long-term problems. 

although, looking at their monkey arms… I guess they weren‘t that realistic after all.

I can still remember myself following the WD article to paint them (drybrush them silver basically) and thinking that‘s good enough as the models sucked anyways.

 

the old skeletons were amazing in conparison. I think it took a few years to get another plastic kit as crappy as this one (thinking of the Catachans).

 

[tkt32583]

22 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

If in 4th Edition both these Factions get updated the amount of money that GW will make will be astonishing. Look how many people are hyped for Seraphon being updated, their sales are going to be insane. How many of us here will jump on BOC or Skaven if theyre updated? 

I stopped playing AoS completely, because to me (even though I sit more on the modelling / painting side than playing), even though the rules for BoC are solid, I cannot justify using models that I bought when I was a child (at the price point that GW wants). If GW were to create more thematic, dynamic models (like Blood Bowl), and not static WFB models, I would be right back again (regardless of how they played on the table top). Ultimately I want to enjoy looking at the creations I have made. When you compare that to the vast majority of other lines in AoS, it really puts things into perspective.

Same for Skaven. I have always wanted to collect them, but the 50/50 mix of very cool modern models, and badly aged metal/finecast models puts me off completely.

(I also get why they might not have updated, priorities, COVID etc. Just my two cents on IF they were updated, would I come back).

[KingBrodd]

51 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Do you mean these dudes?

 

They did indeed look... not great at the time. If I remember correctly they were the first of GW's multipart plastic kits (ignoring the old skeletons which go way back), though thinking about it there was a newer multipart plastic skeleton kit which might have come out before them.

I actually had a whole bunch of them. Getting them to rank up was not fun.

I remember thinking that kit looked really cool at the time but looking at it now...woof.

[Neverchosen]

55 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Do you mean these dudes?

 

They did indeed look... not great at the time. If I remember correctly they were the first of GW's multipart plastic kits (ignoring the old skeletons which go way back), though thinking about it there was a newer multipart plastic skeleton kit which might have come out before them.

I actually had a whole bunch of them. Getting them to rank up was not fun.

I remeber my models had to be specifically placed and I even numbered their bases... So derpy but I still love these models. I think I was 14 or so when I painted them...

[JerekKruger]

35 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I remember thinking that kit looked really cool at the time but looking at it now...woof.

I mean, I loved them too when they came out, but that might have been because they offered an economical way for 12 year old me to get a bunch of those cool WS 6 Chaos Warriors on the table.

I also numbered them to ensure they'd rank up. To be fair I did this with everything because I hated poorly ranked up units.

[StarFyreXXX]

To be fair, at least within the context of mutations and magic etc,  the hunched chaos warriors still fit within believability.  Chaos csn cause mutations, deformities etc. 

 

There is no excuse, for example, of the saurus Knights (released with the Lustria release thst are currently in use).  They barely look like models, let alone dinosaurs. 

Sf

[Merlyn]

Much as I would love a refresh of the Skaven line, the fact they are a relatively unique concept could be what's delaying it. GW have been prioritising moving away from generic fantasy with LRL replacing High Elves, KO and Fireslayers expanding on the Dwarves concept, etc in order to have IP they can call their own and protect. With the Dawnbringer crusades completing the human element of this movement, perhaps we can hope for some Skaven love to come...

[LordSolarMach]

Tangentially related rumour: YouTuber CMValrak has said that there is going to be a new Beastmen warband... for Kill Team. (Likely in the next season, not in the upcoming Gallowfall box.)

[Draznak]

20 minutes ago, LordSolarMach said:

Tangentially related rumour: YouTuber CMValrak has said that there is going to be a new Beastmen warband... for Kill Team. (Likely in the next season, not in the upcoming Gallowfall box.)

Hmmm...

 

[Vasshpit]

If they're like the blackstone fortress ones then hell yeah!! Those are a cool design imo and a box, if not too teched out, would make great conversion fodder. 

 

40k getting new beasts before BoC...

CoS getting new ogors before mawtribes...

Both will be $100 a pop by 2025...

Actually getting funny at this point 🤣

[Skreech Verminking]

18 hours ago, tkt32583 said:

Same for Skaven. I have always wanted to collect them, but the 50/50 mix of very cool modern models, and badly aged metal/finecast models puts me off completely.

I mean the skaven, do have a pretty great range.

just gw doesn’t produce it.

skaven is a 3d printing army😂 

[Asbestress]

10 hours ago, Draznak said:

Hmmm...

 

I still live in the hope that the second one is a Dawnbringer, although the BSF Beastmen have similar bandaged arms.

[Koala]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I mean the skaven, do have a pretty great range.

just gw doesn’t produce it.

skaven is a 3d printing army😂 

I agree. If GW does not deliver top models the law of the free market demands we get them somewhere else

 

This is obviously a tinfoil hat theory but: 

It seems to me that GW is closely monitoring which lines get a lot of alternative 3d designs and adjust their plans accordingly.

E.g there were a lot of alternative Imperial Guard (esp. Death Korps) and Seraphon sculpts. So it makes sense for GW to update those ranges with new and different models. (Market demand)

This is not a 1:1 of course: i do not think there were many chaos warriors sculpts out there since the old ones were pretty okay themselves...

 

 

[Overread]

Eh I doubt GW watches to see trends in 3D printing. 

GW has the raw sales data from their own sales, they 100% know which lines are selling, at what rate, down to what model kits are and aren't selling. Plus they are engaging with their community far more than in the past. So not only do they understand the numerical aspect of sales, they've also a good handle on the reasoning behind sales (which was something the Kirby era system lacked)

 

It's FAR more likely that 3D printing demand is driven the other way around - that popular GW lines spark more demand for 3D print firms to make models to support them. Which is why even though armies like Marines have a lot of GW support (heck you want alternate models there's a whole 3D line to choose from); there's still a lot of demand for them in 3D printing as well. 

 

 

The only thing GW keeps an eye on 3D printing for is in case the market explodes (its still super niche) and in case of any copyright infringements that they can shut down. 

 

Plus you are vastly under-estimating GW's lead times. 3D printing has trends that last a month or two. GW's looks at years. IT takes time for them to concept, sculpt, part, product design, test, develop moulds, produce box art, get packaging and product produced, shipped from china, packed and distributed. 

[KingKull]

1 hour ago, Koala said:

I agree. If GW does not deliver top models the law of the free market demands we get them somewhere else

 

This is obviously a tinfoil hat theory but: 

It seems to me that GW is closely monitoring which lines get a lot of alternative 3d designs and adjust their plans accordingly.

E.g there were a lot of alternative Imperial Guard (esp. Death Korps) and Seraphon sculpts. So it makes sense for GW to update those ranges with new and different models. (Market demand)

This is not a 1:1 of course: i do not think there were many chaos warriors sculpts out there since the old ones were pretty okay themselves...

 

 

I was about to type the same thing yesterday. 

Last Sword, Lost Kingdom, Raven Twin, and (as of relatively recently) Onepagerules all have breathtaking Lizardmen ranges I've been resisting to buy in for the past couple of years in hopes that GW might redo their range, which they eventually did.

I'm not sure how many people reasoned the same way I did, but the logic seems sound from GW's perspective - observe market trends, let other companies create demand with their products, and then come up with your own product, knowing that customers in this market have an illogical preference for your (GW's) models even when the competition has a better product (in some or several ways).

The only caveat is that we know GW has a 3-5 year cycle from when a project is first greenlit to when it finally hits the market, and I don't know which of these ranges were around 3-5 years ago, and for how long they were available at that point (i.e. if they had time enough to kickstart a consumer trend that GW realized was worth exploiting).

I suppose we could theorize more once we see the dates on new Lizardmen sprues.

I thought the same thing with Artel W's orks for 40k, but I'm not sure of the timeline for that one.

However, that's about the only other example I can remember (but ToW might be an effort to compete with Bretonian, TK, and Empire ranges out there), so aside from lizzies and maybe 40k orks, there isn't enough examples to draw a conclusion from (that I know of, at least).

Still, I suppose there could be some kind of correlation, although to which extent it's hard to say.

 

[Vasshpit]

57 minutes ago, KingKull said:

3-5 year cycle from when a project is first greenlit to when it finally hits the market

I may be wrong but I just cant see this being true. Its 2023 and Multi million dollar movies are made in less time. 

For example the snarlfang riders have a sprue date of 23. 

Again I may be wrong but that just logically seems odd. 

(Edit) perhaps for things like an entire new game system but I just can't see that amount of time for some plastic miniatures. 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Vasshpit

[KingBrodd]

9 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

If they're like the blackstone fortress ones then hell yeah!! Those are a cool design imo and a box, if not too teched out, would make great conversion fodder. 

 

40k getting new beasts before BoC...

CoS getting new ogors before mawtribes...

Both will be $100 a pop by 2025...

Actually getting funny at this point 🤣

Im still so conflicted on COS getting new Ogors!! I want the minis and Merc Ogors have always been a thing but updating them outside of their own Faction is a bit like salt in the wound.

Imagine they updated Skaven Clan Eshins but they were for Daughters of Khaine as a hired Assassins unit.

[Ogregut]

55 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

I may be wrong but I just cant see this being true. Its 2023 and Multi million dollar movies are made in less time. 

For example the snarlfang riders have a sprue date of 23. 

Again I may be wrong but that just logically seems odd. 

(Edit) perhaps for things like an entire new game system but I just can't see that amount of time for some plastic miniatures. 

I think we'll see things move a lot faster now as everything from design to production is done in house on one site, coupled with more machinery to produce product as well. 

They also seem to be always expanding their design teams as well. 

[Matrindur]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

I may be wrong but I just cant see this being true. Its 2023 and Multi million dollar movies are made in less time. 

For example the snarlfang riders have a sprue date of 23. 

Again I may be wrong but that just logically seems odd. 

(Edit) perhaps for things like an entire new game system but I just can't see that amount of time for some plastic miniatures. 

A multi million dollar movie cost just that, multiple millions. A part of that money is also so it doesn't take a decade to release.

GW of course also doesn't just work on a single kit at a time but on many things at once so individual items will of course take longer this way. Its also not 3-5 years working until the product is finished but until it is actually released. There are many products that just sit around until a fitting release slot comes around. For example the Desolation Marines that just went up for preorder yesterday where apparently already finished and photographed years ago in 8th edition, but they didn't know yet if/when they would release them.

So 3-5 years from start to release seems pretty on point. 

Also the sprue date is just the planned release year, it doesn't necessarily mean much for when it was designed and when the actual release will happen. The Desolation Marines have a sprue date of 2022 for example so the designs sat around for a while (As the masters where painted prior to 2020) until the actual molds where produced and then it took longer than expected to release them so they only just released now.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Matrindur

[StarFyreXXX]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

I may be wrong but I just cant see this being true. Its 2023 and Multi million dollar movies are made in less time. 

For example the snarlfang riders have a sprue date of 23. 

Again I may be wrong but that just logically seems odd. 

(Edit) perhaps for things like an entire new game system but I just can't see that amount of time for some plastic miniatures. 

Movies aren't always made in less times.  Lots of factors affect it. some big films are fast tracked but for major blockbusters its not true.  For larger stuff, esepcially stuff like the mcu, thr upcming dcu, and animated stuff work is done years in advance. Art, outlines, etc.  A director can be involved for 1 to 2 years before filming starts. 

 Example: fantastic four 2025. Fiege announced it at comic con 2022, but he said concept art etc has been worked on since 2021 at least. Peyton Reed talked bout what they have seen etc in the marvel studios offices for years ahead. By the time stuff is announced,  there's tons of legal and business stuff contracts that have already been done or are being done. Even stuff like securing the Soundstage for future work, etc.

Sf