The Rumour Thread

[madmac]

5 minutes ago, Nos said:

I am also upset about the possibility that an entirely optional rule around playing with more toy flying sharks might be uncompetitive in one format of the game

I'm not upset at all, but you must be close to tears to get this defensive about people just pointing out a single rule is so badly designed it objectively does close to nothing. Any discussion at all that isn't praising GW's absolute perfection in all things and how much extra money we should all be spending on GW licensed products isn't worth having, I suppose.

[Kitsumy]

yes, people see shark line wohooo op nice, shut up if u dont like it.

 

but people who knows some maths see our actual best enclave being deleted to a 0'5-1'5 bites on 1 shark....

i would like to see what an ironjaws player would think if bloodtoff would be changed to play grungas in unit of 6 o more. and then 1 of all army will get 1 extrabite on 6s!!

again im up for fun enclaves, but when the only 2 enclaves we have seen are fun enclaves im starting to worry about having some with actual rules, even rerolls 1s to wound only on foot models only on turn 1 only if they chargue would be better than this

[Copywolf]

We haven't even seen everything for Fuethan.  Let's not doom and gloom yet

[Nos]

45 minutes ago, madmac said:

I'm not upset at all, but you must be close to tears to get this defensive about people just pointing out a single rule is so badly designed it objectively does close to nothing. Any discussion at all that isn't praising GW's absolute perfection in all things and how much extra money we should all be spending on GW licensed products isn't worth having, I suppose.

I don't personally invest much in the competitive format of a system which is apparently so fragile that an entirely  optional rule can jeopardise it.

I am one of the many, if not majority, of people who don't play with the matched play rules system in which character and theme are abandoned In favour of maths. In which situation lots of flying sharks are a justification on the basis of being lots of flying sharks, and that's cool. GW has always doted on that kind of community, and did so long before mathammer.

Not even everything in the books GW release about playing with toy soldiers is dedicated to matched play. Or any other ruleset. Its designed with all their formats in mind, two of which are basically antithetical to each other. That's because they know their audience/consumer base.

I'd suggest you read my other posts if you think I'm in the buisness of praising GW unequivocally though. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Nos

[Kitsumy]

well if u dont use those rules why do u care about shark being line, u could always house rule it too.

preview was about new rules, and anyone can see it is bad. simple as that

[Nos]

2 minutes ago, Kitsumy said:

well if u dont use those rules why do u care about shark being line, u could always house rule it too.

preview was about new rules, and anyone can see it is bad. simple as that

It's an optional rule, so likewise why would you care? 

Rules apply to every format which AOS shares, theres still a format there, all those systems are designed in keeping with the archeture of a single rulset around how factions play and ate represented on the tabletop. It's a good rule if you want to play with lots of sharks. Which for me would be a big incentive to play Idoneth. Sharks are great. No-one else gets sharks. 

 

[madmac]

33 minutes ago, Copywolf said:

We haven't even seen everything for Fuethan.  Let's not doom and gloom yet

No Doom and Gloom, but I'm pretty sure that's it for Fuethan. One rule and maybe some kind of conditional battleline, that's all you get for subfactions in 3E, just going by every other tome so far.

[Ragest]

You don't have to worry about rules, I'm sure idoneth and fyreslayers are going to get an over the top warscroll that is battleline to spam and win tournaments just like stormcast, orruk and nurgle.

[Arzalyn]

2 minutes ago, madmac said:

No Doom and Gloom, but I'm pretty sure that's it for Fuethan. One rule and maybe some kind of conditional battleline, that's all you get for subfactions in 3E, just going by every other tome so far.

Yeah, unless they start changing their design philosophy  it will probably be similar to the nurgle one that let you bring the rotcoven. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed a lot of the subfaction effects for Idoneth, as they are one of the first tomes to get them.

[madmac]

21 minutes ago, Nos said:

I don't personally invest much in the competitive format of a system which is apparently so fragile that an entirely  optional rule can jeopardise it.

I am one of the many, if not majority, of people who don't play with the matched play rules system in which character and theme are abandoned In favour of maths. In which situation lots of flying sharks are a justification on the basis of being lots of flying sharks, and that's cool. GW has always doted on that kind of community, and did so long before mathammer.

Not even everything in the books GW release about playing with toy soldiers is dedicated to matched play. Or any other ruleset. Its designed with all their formats in mind, two of which are basically antithetical to each other. That's because they know their audience/consumer base.

I'd suggest you read my other posts if you think I'm in the buisness of praising GW unequivocally though. 

Yes, obviously you don't care at all, which is why you felt the need to aggressively bulldog your way into a casual discussion about matched play rules while throwing out shade left and right.

I have literally, not even once, said that this means anything balance-wise for IDK overall or even Fuethan. The only thing that struck me about this rule to the point that I wanted to comment on it is that it's just remarkably badly designed and ineffectual.  I have always objected to rules that are poorly written or balanced regardless of who benefits from it. Call it deserved scorn for a professionally made product, I suppose.

For the record, I also think the newest Stormcast and Warclans tomes are very badly done for a variety of reasons. Having a few OP warscrolls or builds doesn't negate that for me, quite the opposite. I can't comment on Nurgle because I don't play Nurgle and haven't seen more than a few snippets of their rules.

[novakai]

7 minutes ago, Ragest said:

You don't have to worry about rules, I'm sure idoneth and fyreslayers are going to get an over the top warscroll that is battleline to spam and win tournaments just like stormcast, orruk and nurgle.

Basically what the last IDK tome did with eels lol. 
 

All I am hoping for is a big power boost to the 2 Eidolons variants warscrolls

[Lord Krungharr]

No matter how awful the warscrolls for Fyreslayers are, if they can take KO and Dispossessed coalition units, I'm playing them.  At the very least they'll have an armywide trait rerolling all hits and wounds vs Clan Fuethan.

[JackStreicher]

18 minutes ago, novakai said:

Basically what the last IDK tome did with eels lol. 
 

All I am hoping for is a big power boost to the 2 Eidolons variants warscrolls

That’s one thing I am hoping for (tbh, both scrolls are quite pathetic in many ways)

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

Basically what the last IDK tome did with eels lol. 
 

All I am hoping for is a big power boost to the 2 Eidolons variants warscrolls

I can't remember how potent the Eidolons are in combat, but they should be super potent water wizards and buff/debuffers.

Just looked up the Eidolons, actually I think they're pretty solid as is, perhaps a bit high in points.  However they're on par with the Verminlord Warpseer and not much more than any of the Magmadroths, and yet vastly superior in buffs and debuff auras already.  That Tsunami of Terror spell is super good!

Edited February 21, 2022 by Lord Krungharr

[Nos]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

Yes, obviously you don't care at all, which is why you felt the need to aggressively bulldog your way into a casual discussion about matched play rules while throwing out shade left and right.

I have literally, not even once, said that this means anything balance-wise for IDK overall or even Fuethan. The only thing that struck me about this rule to the point that I wanted to comment on it is that it's just remarkably badly designed and ineffectual.  I have always objected to rules that are poorly written or balanced regardless of who benefits from it. Call it deserved scorn for a professionally made product, I suppose.

For the record, I also think the newest Stormcast and Warclans tomes are very badly done for a variety of reasons. Having a few OP warscrolls or builds doesn't negate that for me, quite the opposite. I can't comment on Nurgle because I don't play Nurgle and haven't seen more than a few snippets of their rules.

It wasn't a casual discussion about matched play. 

It was a discussion about new rules applicable to all formats of the game .

I stated an opinion you disagreed with into an open forum, as I'm entitled to. There's no other criteria for entry that I'm aware of. 

You're right that AOS is full of rules which are very much counter intuitive or just outright inferior to alternatives within matched play, which is why I don't find them worth consideration as anything more than what they are and basically seem intended to be for. In this instance I think "more sharks" was literally the point, and no other considerations were involved. Same as how Skyllbugz is obviously meant to be "more monsters" even though it barely amounts to a competitive  incentive for that outside the flavour text.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Nos

[Rachmani]

3 hours ago, madmac said:

No Doom and Gloom, but I'm pretty sure that's it for Fuethan. One rule and maybe some kind of conditional battleline, that's all you get for subfactions in 3E, just going by every other tome so far.

Maybe, but we don't know what rules get rolled into other stuff. It might end up being a command trait, on the sharks war scroll etc.

[Lord Krungharr]

Seems like sharks should reroll charges or something vs units that are already wounded, like a feeding frenzy or something.  Love those models, might need some for my Living City zoo collection.

[novakai]

Soulbound artwork for Gitz (part one) 

And no it doesn’t mean a tome is coming soon so don’t ask

[Nos]

Looks like the GW art mandate to reproduce visuals of models is extended to Soulbound.

I mean they're cool pictures and all but especially for a role-playing game where presumably the deal is that you can go "off grid" they don't give any more flavour to the role and idetity of the species or just as importantly, the world they Inhabit, than the existing models do.

I think this is probably the one area where GW gets it undeniably wrong from a commercial aspect. People are far more inclined to buy stuff if their imagination is fuelled Into creating a world for GW products to reside in, rather than just buy literal Interpretations of the picture they see. The former relies on the consumers imagination, which they're obviously biassed towards. The latter on the consumer liking an image, pretty much.

 

[novakai]

8 minutes ago, Nos said:

Looks like the GW art mandate to reproduce visuals of models is extended to Soulbound.

I mean they're cool pictures and all but especially for a role-playing game where presumably the deal is that you can go "off grid" they don't give any more flavour to the role and idetity of the species or just as importantly, the world they Inhabit, than the existing models do.

I think this is probably the one area where GW gets it undeniably wrong from a commercial aspect. People are far more inclined to buy stuff if their imagination is fuelled Into creating a world for GW products to reside in, rather than just buy literal Interpretations of the picture they see. The former relies on the consumers imagination, which they're obviously biassed towards. The latter on the consumer liking an image, pretty much.

 

They have given cub7 more leeway when they did female Duardin archtype, the flesh eater court heroes, the necromancer though. I just assume that for the destruction expansion they decided to copy more closely with tabletop

Edited February 21, 2022 by novakai

[Noserenda]

I asked for pictures of Spiderman dammit! I dont care if they resemble minis of spiderman or not! *chomps cigar*

[Ledgington]

There’s a Van Denst short story on the BL as part of their annual celebration. It’s pretty good, makes Doralia look like a badass and gives a little flavor as to how the Order of Azry operate. Perhaps more interestingly, it ends with a short extract from ‘Hallowed Ground’. I’m definitely excited to get my hands on that novel now
 

 

[HollowHills]

Not really the place for detailed Idoneth chat, but I will say this and add a rumour to it.

1) It has been a feature of AoS 3rd that subfactions provide lesser benefits than previously and these benefits are more specific and flavourful.

2) The played Idoneth enclaves from 1.0 all gave variations on reroll hits or wounds of 1. This was never going to stay in place with the new design philosophy. 

3) These previews always tell us very little about the ultimate competitive standing of an army.

4) Playtesters and team captains have been promoting playing Idoneth with a focus on sharks as a strong competitive option.

Most regulars know I am a diehard Idoneth player and interested in competitive play. I'm not worried. Please trust x

[Sonnenspeer]

I wonder if Idoneth Deepkin will have a significant boost in mortal wound output which is also a 3ed thing 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 hours ago, Nos said:

Looks like the GW art mandate to reproduce visuals of models is extended to Soulbound.

I mean they're cool pictures and all but especially for a role-playing game where presumably the deal is that you can go "off grid" they don't give any more flavour to the role and idetity of the species or just as importantly, the world they Inhabit, than the existing models do.

I think this is probably the one area where GW gets it undeniably wrong from a commercial aspect. People are far more inclined to buy stuff if their imagination is fuelled Into creating a world for GW products to reside in, rather than just buy literal Interpretations of the picture they see. The former relies on the consumers imagination, which they're obviously biassed towards. The latter on the consumer liking an image, pretty much.

That really stands out to me, too. I find the Underworlds card art really weak in comparison with Magic: The Gathering card art, for example. Mosty it's just depictions of the models exactly as they look in a backgroundless void. I also think the sketchy art style of AoS coupled with the insistence on depicting the models with little artistic freedom super unimpactful. It does not make me excited about the art at all, which is a shame. Because older Warhammer art definitely did manage to get me excited.

2 hours ago, HollowHills said:

Not really the place for detailed Idoneth chat, but I will say this and add a rumour to it.

1) It has been a feature of AoS 3rd that subfactions provide lesser benefits than previously and these benefits are more specific and flavourful.

2) The played Idoneth enclaves from 1.0 all gave variations on reroll hits or wounds of 1. This was never going to stay in place with the new design philosophy. 

3) These previews always tell us very little about the ultimate competitive standing of an army.

4) Playtesters and team captains have been promoting playing Idoneth with a focus on sharks as a strong competitive option.

Most regulars know I am a diehard Idoneth player and interested in competitive play. I'm not worried. Please trust x

There is this psychological trap that is really easy to fall into, where the rules of your faction change, a lot of the things you previously identified as exciting or strong don't quite work anymore, and you conclude that the new book must be bad because you can't yet identify the new, excting things the army can do. I fell into that trap myself with the Soulblight book, which is actually a really great book in hindsight. Much better Legions of Nagash by any measure. We have also recently seen the same happen with Stormcast, where a lot of people were sure the book had no competitive play when it was released, and look at it now.

I think it's a fairly natural reaction, but we should try to resist it. At least until we have the book in our hands.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Neil Arthur Hotep