The Rumour Thread

[PJetski]

On 12/31/2021 at 11:46 PM, Malakithe said:

Is the future looking better? Its not even 9pm here on the west coast...always stuck in the past...

Nope its still terrible in 2022

[pnkdth]

31 minutes ago, Doko said:

I really reaaaally i am triying not vent all my rage here but i only gonna state my tougths and try not be negagive:

 

Fyreslayers a army with 3 units after 7 years got 0 new units

Fyreslayers that are middle\botton tier got destroyed and gonna the worst army now

Fyreslayers style of play have been destroyed also,a army reliying in 5 wounds heroes with bad save have lost the bodyguards to try save them and also we have units of 30base and only 1" range doing them umplayable with 3.0 coherency and now hearthguard changed of within 10" to wholy within 9" because every other army that was changed from within to wholy got a increase but......we are dwarfs so we get only a decrease.

Now lets see new scrolls:

 

Vulkites with dual axes: continue with 30 base and 1" range so they are umplayable in new coherency,also nerfed from reroll all misses to situational a +1 attack

Vulkites with shield and pick: nerfed HARD lossing a 50% of damage(from 2 attack to only1) and moreover a increase in points because......why only decrease a 50% the damage of a unit that never is played is we can nerf his cost too?

Hearthguard rangued: lost double damage to monsters,changed of halves the movement to only a -1 and also lost bodyguard,so was nerfed his stats and also lost its purpose...........a unit of 130 points with 3'8 damage.......but in same box we have reavers with 8'8 damage or 10 if 9" for 170

Hearthguards melle: a nerf in points and lost 6+++ without hero and changed his aura of within 10" to wholh withim 9" doing them very hard to play when they have 30 base 

I usually i am a very criticism people as for sure everyone know allready,but really someone can tell me some positive that i dont see? Because i ordered two of this box and im so down rigth now that i think i gonna cancell the order and only keep my fs army as was because its imposible get in the mood of build them when every unit is ****** .

I really dont get it,fyreslayers were even being very positive a middle tier army,how is posible that EVERY unit have been nerfed veeeeery hard? We arent speaking about seraphons or lumineths getting nerfed one or two units, we are speaking about a bad army getting every unit being nerfed into the ground.

 

All that remains to do now is to take a massive hit of copium and hope FS get allegiance abilities which do something like +1 attacks/+1 save within a hero, buffed ur-gold rune mechanics, and some cool rules for sub-factions.

The warscrolls are so hecking bland for the battletome to be interesting and fun either, 1) heroes, 2) allegiance abilities, has to unlock hidden potential. Plus, grimwrath, doom boi and magmadroths could add some additional spice.

It ain't much but on the other hand GW have moved abilities previously on unit warscrolls off to allegiance abilities to prevent min-maxing with allies. So who knows, perhaps we'll get an army wide -1 to rend, army wide fire damage when attacking, or whatever. Do I think it is likely, no, but I'm doing backstrokes in copium now till I see the battletome in its full form. 😂

 

[Neverchosen]

My ignorant non-fyreslayer playing take was simply, cool throwing axes were buffed 10/10 warscrolls. 😅

Also could be that they were nerfed for Soup Reasons Duardin will need something to fairly fight Bonesplitterz

Edited January 15, 2022 by Neverchosen

[azdimy]

4 hours ago, angrycontra said:

But in none of those books, have there been blatant warscroll nerfs like in this fyreslayer release

While I understand your frustration, I disagree with that statement. Slannesh warscrolls got a worse treatment on their warscrolls. This may have been downplayed because of the big mortal release that came with the BT but the deamon warscrolls got nerfed in every way and here we are almost a year later

[madmac]

23 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

My ignorant non-fyreslayer playing take was simply cool throwing axes were buffed 10/10 warscrolls. 😅

Also could be that they were nerfed for Soup Reasons Duardin will need something to fairly fight Bonesplitterz

If they were nerfed for soup reasons, it just reinforces why soup is terrible. Even in that scenario, Fyreslayers are just going to be the new Bonesplitterz, no one is going to play these warscrolls over other options except for love of a dying army.

[Cronotekk]

This quality of rules writing is why I pirate

[Ogregut]

Before everyone decided the sky is falling and GW personally hates them no one knows what the new battletome is like, if there is more stuff to be released and how everything plays together. 

Theoryhammer is all well and good but fails to take into account all the other interactions of other units, scenarios and anything else that happens on the battlefield. 

This happens everytime, people see new rules, lose their mind but in practice are no where near as bad as first made out. 

HoS is a good example of this. The new book has given me some of the most rewarding gaming experiences. It's not a point and click army, it takes thought and is unforgiving but is a awesome army for clever gameplay and punishing a enemy for their mistakes. 

I'm excited to build a new Fyreslayers army, ordered my battlebox along with a start collecting box this morning. 

Now just need to decide if I'm going with traditional orange hair or go blue. 

[Cronotekk]

2 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Before everyone decided the sky is falling and GW personally hates them no one knows what the new battletome is like, if there is more stuff to be released and how everything plays together. 

Theoryhammer is all well and good but fails to take into account all the other interactions of other units, scenarios and anything else that happens on the battlefield. 

This happens everytime, people see new rules, lose their mind but in practice are no where near as bad as first made out. 

HoS is a good example of this. The new book has given me some of the most rewarding gaming experiences. It's not a point and click army, it takes thought and is unforgiving but is a awesome army for clever gameplay and punishing a enemy for their mistakes. 

I'm excited to build a new Fyreslayers army, ordered my battlebox along with a start collecting box this morning. 

Now just need to decide if I'm going with traditional orange hair or go blue. 

He’s right, things becoming worse isn’t bad because you can have rewarding gaming experiences like this clown

[shinros]

3 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just to make it very clear - no more bin and sin references to people working on the books. It’s not nice and I’m pretty sure if I started calling people the “bin guy” about work they do, you would get annoyed.

 

Honestly, the meme would stop if GW just wrote better books and warscrolls. They can do it, just look at some of the books and warscrolls in the game. Yet, some books just feel low effort in general. If people are feeling that way about your product then perhaps something is wrong.

Edited January 15, 2022 by shinros

[Doko]

Great for you,so it bslance out with my cancelled order of x2 of this box hahaha(and if you are in spain i can sell you my army)

 

And new scrolls are worse than slanesh situation because we havent a extra 500\1000 points of free sumonned units or others 99999 unit that we can choose.

 

Entire fyrewlayer non hero unit have been nerfed into the umplayable and no viable state and only things as alegiances of allways a +1 attack can fix it and this wont happen

[madmac]

5 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Before everyone decided the sky is falling and GW personally hates them no one knows what the new battletome is like, if there is more stuff to be released and how everything plays together. 

Theoryhammer is all well and good but fails to take into account all the other interactions of other units, scenarios and anything else that happens on the battlefield. 

This happens everytime, people see new rules, lose their mind but in practice are no where near as bad as first made out. 

HoS is a good example of this. The new book has given me some of the most rewarding gaming experiences. It's not a point and click army, it takes thought and is unforgiving but is a awesome army for clever gameplay and punishing a enemy for their mistakes. 

I'm excited to build a new Fyreslayers army, ordered my battlebox along with a start collecting box this morning. 

Now just need to decide if I'm going with traditional orange hair or go blue. 

I guess you're right. Literally every Fyreslayer unit warscroll being worse than ever and showing no understanding of the issues the army actually struggles with is just a sign of great things to come. The new hero being priced at 80 points is also a shining light towards the future, showing that GW was fully aware that he's completely useless but hit print on his warscroll anyway.

[Austin]

3 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Just to make it very clear - no more bin and sin references to people working on the books. It’s not nice and I’m pretty sure if I started calling people the “bin guy” about work they do, you would get annoyed.

 

This is really a new low for forced happiness on these forums.  When all GW hears is echo chamber praise for no reason and the game doesn't improve, it will happen directly because of things like this.

[Ogregut]

3 minutes ago, Austin said:

This is really a new low for forced happiness on these forums.  When all GW hears is echo chamber praise for no reason and the game doesn't improve, it will happen directly because of things like this.

There is a diffrence between constructive criticism and just being rude and insulting to someone's work. It's not forced happiness, it's common courtesy. 

[Copywolf]

We also don't know the whole picture.  Maybe Fyreslayers get +1 attack on the charge or when charged and that could explain the change.

[Cronotekk]

Since Nighthaunt are rumored to come next with that model they previewed there’s a good chance they may be bonesplittered as well

[Doko]

Yes and we could get a rule that do inmune to shooting our heroes to explain why a unit lost the bodyguard hability(ans double damage to monsters) buy that is only wishfull think because that wont happen and these scrolls are so bad that only things huge as +1 attack all the army can fix it and that wont happen as havent happened in any other tome so far.

The fact is rigth now a middle\botton army got for no reason the biggest nerfs in all the age of sigmar history so far(a unit loosing a 50% of his attack as vulkites and moreover a increase in cost,or bodyguards lost and no buff to compesate).

It is so easy as that and yes we can hope the book fix it,but is hard fix warscrolls so bad and even then we dont know when gonna drop the tome when gw havent told nothimg

[Mutton]

It's almost like Games Workshop is terrible at balancing their own games, and slapping some red on the covers of their books and calling it 3rd edition wasn't going to change that.

I've taken a step back from Warhammer and have finally been enjoying my hobby/gaming time again.

[pnkdth]

26 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

Before everyone decided the sky is falling and GW personally hates them no one knows what the new battletome is like, if there is more stuff to be released and how everything plays together. 

Theoryhammer is all well and good but fails to take into account all the other interactions of other units, scenarios and anything else that happens on the battlefield. 

This happens everytime, people see new rules, lose their mind but in practice are no where near as bad as first made out. 

HoS is a good example of this. The new book has given me some of the most rewarding gaming experiences. It's not a point and click army, it takes thought and is unforgiving but is a awesome army for clever gameplay and punishing a enemy for their mistakes. 

I'm excited to build a new Fyreslayers army, ordered my battlebox along with a start collecting box this morning. 

Now just need to decide if I'm going with traditional orange hair or go blue. 

I hope you, the battletome, or both proves our rants and ravings wrong. There are still units left to unveil and there could be more (allegiance, sub-faction, etc). For now though, I think the reaction is quite reasonable but on the other hand I appreciate the optimism.

[Austin]

14 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

There is a diffrence between constructive criticism and just being rude and insulting to someone's work. It's not forced happiness, it's common courtesy. 

There is no inherent value or respect due to someone just because they made something.  Sure, there are lines of basic decorum that should be observed- but the comments here don't even come close.

GW is a business.  They have no personal relationship with us, our personal value is not based on their games. When a business makes a bad product, clamping down on criticism makes no sense outside of official channels. But maybe more importantly, without (perhaps strong) criticism what will change? GW clearly is pleased with the direction (this isn't the first or even the second time) for designers. Why shield them from consequences?

If you have a job where your product goes out and faces any number of people, particularly when the product costs LOTS of money, expect strong feelings. Do better, instead of being told you win a juicebox just for showing up.

[acr0ssth3p0nd]

Just now, Mutton said:

It's almost like Games Workshop is terrible at balancing their own games, and slapping some red on the covers of their books and calling it 3rd edition wasn't going to change that.

I've taken a step back from Warhammer and have finally been enjoying my hobby/gaming time again.

Same for me. With OnePageRules showing it's not going anywhere, I have viable alternatives for the games I can play with my models. If the AoS game rules are going to cause me more stress and frustration than joy, why should I spend my limited free time on them? Life is too short!

[The Red King]

48 minutes ago, Ogregut said:

It's not a point and click army, it takes thought and is unforgiving but is a awesome army for clever gameplay and punishing a enemy for their mistakes. 

I always see this sentiment which really doesn't address anything no offense.

 

"It isnt an easy army but you can win if you play well and your opponent plays poorly" is John Madden "to win the game you've got to score more points" levels of commentary. 

 

I played Dark Eldar from 5th edition, heck I play Beasts and Khorne. I know the benefits of playing a weaker army and the joys of winning with it, but that never once invalidated the criticism that it was incredibly poorly balanced. (Mind you I quit 40k in 7th.. 8th? when they were vastly improved but before they became even better).

 

Bad books arent bad because they can never win they're bad because they demand so much of the player that they can only ever be enjoyed by the best players and while I appreciate the reward of mastering something difficult I dont think armies should be off limits to casual players just to make me feel good when I win with them. 

[Doko]

The problem isnt that one or two units of a broken overpower  tome with 20+ units got a increase of 10 points as happened with sentinels or salamanders.

The problems are and reason that many of us are so angry:

-Fyreslayers is the oldest original aos army and after 7 years got only 2 boxes of non heroes units being 3 units and now we got no new unit

-in 3.0 fyreslayer got huge direct and indirect nerfs doing us one mediocre army for entire 3.0 and we was wsiting for bigs buff to bring us to a competitive level but in place of that we got the biggest nerfs in all  aos history

-our style of play need 5 wounds heroes to be viable and get units of 15+ models with bases of 30 in range of auras and now we lost bodyguards and the aure was changed of withing 10" to wholy within 9" that is imposible and every other army got a increase when changed of withing to wholy but we got a decrease?so the style of play of the army was destroyed.

 

So i think all this together explain why some of us are showing signs to who wroten this book of how he havent idea of the army or of the game because he have done a horrible work 

[Neverchosen]

43 minutes ago, Austin said:

This is really a new low for forced happiness on these forums.  When all GW hears is echo chamber praise for no reason and the game doesn't improve, it will happen directly because of things like this.

Wait! Games Workshop listens to this forum?

CHAOS DWARVES, SILENT PEOPLE, KURNOTHI AELVES, MALERION, HALFLING KNIGHTS, VAMPIRATES!

CRITTERS AND KEYS!!!

Okay, back to rumours... What are we expecting revealed tomorrow? Eldar/Chaos?

Edited January 15, 2022 by Neverchosen

[Enoby]

57 minutes ago, shinros said:

Honestly, the meme would stop if GW just wrote better books and warscrolls. They can do it, just look at some of the books and warscrolls in the game. Yet, some books just feel low effort in general. If people are feeling that way about your product then perhaps something is wrong.

I do agree that GW's rules writing is inconsistent, though I don't think "sin/bin guy" is super useful for a few reasons:

- It creates an imaginary scapegoat for "bin guy" whenever there's a bad book (e.g. "this book is bad so it must have been written by bin guy") when in reality rules writers write a mix of bad and good books (the first Slaanesh book and the second were written by the same person, but they're totally different ends of the power curve), so the discussion often turns into "who let bin guy write another book" and that's based on a false premise.

- Because of the above, blame can turn to the wrong direction - if someone can write a great book and a terrible book, maybe it's not their skill but rather time constraints, mismanagement, miscommunication, or upper level pressure that's causing them to write sub-par rules. If a writer gets a day to write 10 warscrolls, then those warscrolls will likely be poor quality, but the fault lies with the person who set the deadline.

- It creates an 'us vs them' when a writer feels as if they're being insulted, and as well as that just not being a nice feeling for the writer, it may also make them less willing to work with the community.

Don't get me wrong, I do think GW can and has produced some shoddy rules and I think it's quite telling when people are nervous rather than excited about a new battletome. Someone, likely more than one person, looked at the Slaangor rules and said it was okay - some decisions are truly baffling. The rules team can definitely be wrong, but it's not as if there's some terrible writer who's managed to cling onto their job, there's a good chance it's a collection of mistakes and pressures that can cause even the most esteemed writer to create something rubbish. 

I get "bin guy" almost describes a phenomena rather than a person, but seeing how it's discussed in the wider online community, some people do seem to be under the impression that there's two groups of writers - the ones who write books they like, and the ones that write books that suck.

TL;DR - GW produces some poor rules, but it's not the fault of one person and acting as such detracts from what is likely a larger issue in the company (and is just not that nice for the writer to read). 

[Kitsumy]

not so great changes after points increase.

thralls getting 2" was obvious and nedded only to make them viable, mathwise they are sligthy worse than vampires graveguard and they arent used, so sky isnt falling here lol

shark won around 25% increase in wounds and dmg if u get together melee and shoting. but got nerfed around 30% and cant get turtle cover now since more than 8w? so it got nerfed

archers gained only 1 rend at less than 8" versus old scroll with turtle or cp, now they cant get that +1 to hit since they are 2+ and lost half atacks in melee, got nerfed by 45% in points.... so they got nerfed in that situation,sure at long range they got 1 rend and like 200% more dmg. so they are really nice now but not on op gamebreaking side like some dudes are criying on my groups. they are sligthy better than irondrakes level( more movility but far less tanky) and they arent stomping games neither. and are a bit better than blisbards, and they have free summon and are said like worst unit in all aos lol

all and all, they are funier to play with those rules and got away better than dwarfs for sure, but idk were top of middle tier and they arent better with this i think since only foot unit got better and not so much,( and they were bad before),and the only fish we saw got worse ( sligthy)

Edited January 15, 2022 by Kitsumy