The Rumour Thread

[Snorri Nelriksson]

4 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I know not everything needs to be tailored to my tastes (and shouldn't), but it's that patriarchal system that has been a dealbreaker for me heh

I feel you could look at female Fyreslayers from two angles:

A) Out of lore. Unlike 40K, AoS isn't so established (Malerion, Tyrion etc no screentime yet, just as an example) to make retcons unbearable. And AoS community doesn't froth at the mouth from the thought, unlike 40K fans at fem Astartes.

B) In lore. Life magic surges through the Realms, maybe the Fyreslayer birthrate explodes, or a million other reasons to explain the change. All trans duardin change into their identified gender? Fyreslayers get 'cloned' by life magic? Have a 40K-esque 'There's plenty of theories, we don't know' mystery box? The sky is the limit. I also think you could still contrast FS with KO--please correct me @zilberfrid if my interpretation is wrong--as the latter's egalitarianism stems from a libertarian/capitalist 'It's just bigger hiring pool for us!'. A full retcon of valkyries and Fyrequeens always existing could easily be framed from a conservative 'What do you mean "We should be a patriarchy"? The Runemother's line has reigned ever since me great-great-great-grandfather was a wee beardling! Hmph. Youth and their fanciful ideas...' POV. If pulled off well it could be a real fun subversion. Maybe harder to do with my life magic example, but I think a skilled writer could pull it off and let KO and FS remain their own niches.

TBH they don't need an huge retcon,there was already a queen leading a lodge....just say it happens more than what people think, pop up more female models and the trick is done(other than putting always some women body in the new kits also).
And i agree with the people saying thy needs also some other faces of the society to "appears" in the army like miners and so on.
The whole "patrilineal thing" is a nice contrast to meritocratic Kharadron society considering that the "old ways", if Grungni will not bring a 3rd army more in line with the classic dwaves, are left forgotten(not counting dispossessed ofc).

Edited December 29, 2021 by Snorri Nelriksson

[zilberfrid]

4 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

I know not everything needs to be tailored to my tastes (and shouldn't), but it's that patriarchal system that has been a dealbreaker for me heh

I feel you could look at female Fyreslayers from two angles:

A) Out of lore. Unlike 40K, AoS isn't so established (Malerion, Tyrion etc no screentime yet, just as an example) to make retcons unbearable. And AoS community doesn't froth at the mouth from the thought, unlike 40K fans at fem Astartes.

B) In lore. Life magic surges through the Realms, maybe the Fyreslayer birthrate explodes, or a million other reasons to explain the change. All trans duardin change into their identified gender? Fyreslayers get 'cloned' by life magic? Have a 40K-esque 'There's plenty of theories, we don't know' mystery box? The sky is the limit. I also think you could still contrast FS with KO--please correct me @zilberfrid if my interpretation is wrong--as the latter's egalitarianism stems from a libertarian/capitalist 'It's just bigger hiring pool for us!'. A full retcon of valkyries and Fyrequeens always existing could easily be framed from a conservative 'What do you mean "We should be a patriarchy"? The Runemother's line has reigned ever since me great-great-great-grandfather was a wee beardling! Hmph. Youth and their fanciful ideas...' POV. If pulled off well it could be a real fun subversion. Maybe harder to do with my life magic example, but I think a skilled writer could pull it off and let KO and FS remain their own niches.

Well, we already had this image in Soulbound:

So I think we can say female fyreslayers exist.

We can also say I want two boxes of them.

About female Kharadron: Also yes

[novakai]

I say we be happy with and not be picky any new kits we get for KO or FS even if it just all males again since it not like Dwarf have been a popular concept in fantasy to begin with. At least this is true in my MMO experience unless they are a range damage dealer class with a gun.

Edited December 29, 2021 by novakai

[Clan's Cynic]

Vince has said he disliked Fyreslayers, so I doubt it's anything for them. Although I suppose he's happy so long as he gets a 'cool' model.

4 hours ago, Mutton said:

The lore literally talks about holds ruled by Fyrequeens and warriors from all types and castes. They've simply chosen not to make any models for female dwarfs because early AoS just didn't think about inclusivity and they haven't been in a hurry to sculpt more models for their least popular faction. And no, I don't think we need another Warhammer race that's exclusively ruled by men, featuring only men. It actually goes against what we've been told in the worldbuilding, and that aside, it's boring and dumb. Hell, I'm still waiting for female ogres to show up.

Give me warrior women or give me death.

There are Holds ruled by Queens and there are female warriors, but it's stated to be rare and usually in smaller Lodges under extreme situations.

From Soulbound:

Quote

In most cases only male Fyreslayers are permitted to bear the ur-gold runes from which their warrior castes derive power, or go into battle.

Quote

Despite the patriarchal nature of their society, however, there have been rare instances of matrilineal inheritance among the smaller lodges — often occurring when the male population of a lodge is decimated due to war or disaster.

Quote

While females very rarely leave the safety of the lodge, males are encountered wherever there are battles to be fought and gold to be earned.

I think AoS is generally widely egalitarian that a patriarchal faction, warts and all, works when there's a cousin-faction who're notable because they have almost no gender roles and they become less special in that regard if everybody is equal opportunities anyway. 

It would also contrast any Valayan army that could (and should) potentially appear in the future. I'm not going to complain if we do see 'generic' Fyreslayer women, but I don't think having them be patriarchal is 'boring' since it's not as if Age of Sigmar is meant to be a noblebright setting and almost everybody but Daughters of Khaine are Equal Opportunities Heroes/Villains anyway.

Plus it immediately sets up a reason for a friendly(?) rivalry between the Fyreslayers and Valayan- uhhh... Lyghtwardens we hopefully get eventually.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[PJetski]

32 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Well, we already had this image in Soulbound:

Just my opinion, but I think this is awful and I hope it's not used as concept art for any future Fyreslayer models. 

I don't mind if we keep getting only males in this faction - I don't think the Fyreslayer aesthetic meshes well with the feminine form. There is something about "ripped muscle berzerkers with huge beards" that seems to be antithetical to the feminine aesthetic. If they do make female Fyreslayer models I hope they take a different route than this. It's not impossible to do by any means, but I think almost any attempt at directly mixing these two aesthetics will be botched and end up looking like this ghoulish hobbit.

It is really difficult to do female dwarves properly in any fantasy setting because dwarves are a caricature of the masculine - industrious, stubborn, proud, defenders, etc. I think Warcraft did a good job with it when they moved from WC3 to WoW and introduced female dwarves as a playable option. GW did a good job with femcast (aside from the plethora of gauche modern haircuts that will age poorly) but they are more of a regal and refined faction.

There is an interesting contrast between the Fyreslayers, a patriarchal society that survived the Age of Chaos by doubling down on their values, methods, and tradition, and the Kharadron that survived the Age of Chaos by abandoning all ties and literally rising above them through their advanced technology. From a narrative perspective it would be interesting if KO were more egalitarian and meritocratic while the Fyreslayers remain zealous and patriarchal. It creates tension and drama to have a standard fantasy race split into opposites in this way.

[KingBrodd]

4 hours ago, Mutton said:

The lore literally talks about holds ruled by Fyrequeens and warriors from all types and castes. They've simply chosen not to make any models for female dwarfs because early AoS just didn't think about inclusivity and they haven't been in a hurry to sculpt more models for their least popular faction. And no, I don't think we need another Warhammer race that's exclusively ruled by men, featuring only men. It actually goes against what we've been told in the worldbuilding, and that aside, it's boring and dumb. Hell, I'm still waiting for female ogres to show up.

Give me warrior women or give me death.

****** I want some Female Ogors!! Gluttons, Irontguts, Leadbelchers, the lot!!

4 hours ago, Durgin said:

I agree for what concerns fyreladies, but without linking them to Valaya cult.

Valaya is a goddess that doesn't match well with war, I would prefer simply to see female warriors devoted to Grimnir.

Moreover, I think that fyreslayers desperately need to include also "average"/civilian dwarfs, merging some concepts of the old dwarfs armies like miners and clansmen, with the actual caste of warriors.

A  society in which there are non-professional (yet stubborn and tough, as proper dwarfs are) warriors (clansmen and miners, obviously redesigned to fit the theme of fyreslayers, so maybe with a more tribal-aggressive look), that rally in case of war to protect the stronghold (after all, I suppose that a stronghold of fyreslayers might include also normal workers and civilians, to survive), side by side with proper professional soldiers, the fyreslayers caste, let's call them the Spartiates of the fyreslayer society.

The civilian militia brings on the battlefield regiments of core troops and warmachines, while the fyreslayers caste provides elite troops of fiery warriors, magmadroth cavalries and chariots.

This way, not only you would have more variety (both in terms of gameplay, but also for what concerns the visual aesthetic of the range), but the fyreslayers would aesthetically pop out, as slayers did in old dwarfs armies, and gain a more specific role that fit well their abilities.

I know that these are just wishlisting, but I confess that every time I see one of the minis of this army, my dwarf heart cries because it's weird how GW failed to give justice to a badass concept like fyreslayers.

 

I absolutely love this idea mate!!

3 hours ago, Aleser said:

Check at 19:46. Vince is saying he is working on something that will come out february/march, he is very exicted about it and other people will be, and will prob lead him to start that army. Could that be something bigger for Deepkin or Slayers. We expect their tomes then. He is mostly painting bigger models for Warhammer Community articles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuPgwI2q1dA&ab_channel=VinceVenturella

 

WHATS THIS?! A RUMOUR!? 

This is very exciting!! If its absolutely anything new for Fyreslayers that isnt a Hero it's incredible news and if its Deepkin, the same could be said!! Hopefully it's a monster for either of these Factions, after all it's the Era of the Beast!!

[AngryPanda]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

Well, we already had this image in Soulbound:

So I think we can say female fyreslayers exist.

She looks like Chucky

[King Under the Mountain]

This ones from the Old World but shows you can do a badass mohawk girl without looking like Chucky.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Just my opinion, but I think this is awful and I hope it's not used as concept art for any future Fyreslayer models. 

I don't mind if we keep getting only males in this faction - I don't think the Fyreslayer aesthetic meshes well with the feminine form. There is something about "ripped muscle berzerkers with huge beards" that seems to be antithetical to the feminine aesthetic. If they do make female Fyreslayer models I hope they take a different route than this. It's not impossible to do by any means, but I think almost any attempt at directly mixing these two aesthetics will be botched and end up looking like this ghoulish hobbit.

It is really difficult to do female dwarves properly in any fantasy setting because dwarves are a caricature of the masculine - industrious, stubborn, proud, defenders, etc. I think Warcraft did a good job with it when they moved from WC3 to WoW and introduced female dwarves as a playable option. GW did a good job with femcast (aside from the plethora of gauche modern haircuts that will age poorly) but they are more of a regal and refined faction.

There is an interesting contrast between the Fyreslayers, a patriarchal society that survived the Age of Chaos by doubling down on their values, methods, and tradition, and the Kharadron that survived the Age of Chaos by abandoning all ties and literally rising above them through their advanced technology. From a narrative perspective it would be interesting if KO were more egalitarian and meritocratic while the Fyreslayers remain zealous and patriarchal. It creates tension and drama to have a standard fantasy race split into opposites in this way.

They need not take that route, but female dwarves have been done often. A few I could quickly find:

There are many more

And a bonus squat

They don't fit well together because they are from different designers, but other designers get it. And while you may not like the female Fyreslayer, I think she looks fierce, but agree she could be more muscular.

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, novakai said:

I say we be happy with and not be picky any new kits we get for KO or FS even if it just all males again since it not like Dwarf have been a popular concept in fantasy to begin with. At least this is true in my MMO experience unless they are a range damage dealer class with a gun.

Most parties I played in had a dwarf. I think about as often as humans (if the system allowed it, but even in both Ars Magica campaigns to some extent) Mostly not even me.

Now I don't MMO, but on tabletop it's quite a staple. Though I now remember they are quite popular in Vermintide.

Edited December 29, 2021 by zilberfrid

[Doko]

As dwarf lover i hope gw never release a female dwarf.

Dwarf must be male,ripped muscles,long beards and with heavy armor,it is posible skip heavy armor if it is a slayer but female is a huge NEVER.

And im pretty sure that the 90% dwarfs fans think the same,sure maybe female dwarfs gonna bring new players to the faction,but i dont think any actual dispossesed\fyreslayer\kharadron player want any female dwarf.

Plz gw if you are reading this,forget female dwarfs and focus in cavalry and very diferent aestetical units as fyreslayers with heavy armor or magmagolems

[King Under the Mountain]

2 hours ago, novakai said:

I say we be happy with and not be picky any new kits we get for KO or FS even if it just all males again since it not like Dwarf have been a popular concept in fantasy to begin with. At least this is true in my MMO experience unless they are a range damage dealer class with a gun.

What is this blasphemous talk?  Lies and slander. 

All serious tho MMO's is more of a visual medium and people tend to want to play dress up with pretty Elves and Humans.  I've been rocking a Dwarf Warrior in WoW since like 2004.

On the tabletop both RPG's and wargames Dwarfs are far more popular I feel like.  The culture and aesthetics of Dwarfs are so strong and fun to play for many people.    

[zilberfrid]

2 minutes ago, Doko said:

As dwarf lover i hope gw never release a female dwarf.

Dwarf must be male,ripped muscles,long beards and with heavy armor,it is posible skip heavy armor if it is a slayer but female is a huge NEVER.

And im pretty sure that the 90% dwarfs fans think the same,sure maybe female dwarfs gonna bring new players to the faction,but i dont think any actual dispossesed\fyreslayer\kharadron player want any female dwarf.

Plz gw if you are reading this,forget female dwarfs and focus in cavalry and very diferent aestetical units as fyreslayers with heavy armor or magmagolems

Your 90% comes from what data? Not Atlantis' sales figures, where their female dwarf unit mold wore out before the male one. I don't know how things are for Scribor, and many others don't make them so they aren't valuable data.

Not from GW's, because they don't make any.

90% seems awfully specific, but I can't see where you get it from. Or maybe it's the "I want this to be the case so I can't imagine people thinking something else" 90% figure.

I'll just state it.

I won't buy male Fyreslayers, because the Underworld box gives all the unit variety they have, and I have that.

I would buy Female Fyreslayers.

The only male Kharadron I still want are Brokk and the Arkanaut crew. I don't imagine a new box with more dudes will have pull for me, though it might.

I would buy female Kharadron, even if it's an infantry hero. Little that I can foresee here would put me off that.

[The Red King]

I don't think we can devolve this conversation any further but muscle women are in fact feasible in a setting where they are fighting amalgam bone golems and on a separate note I can't imagine being so scared of femininity that you want GW to ignore literally half of the dwarven race.

Edited December 29, 2021 by The Red King

[lare2]

4 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

This is exciting but does Vince Venturella have knowledge of upcoming minis and armies.

He definitely gets sent models in advance but no idea how far in advance. 

[novakai]

6 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

What is this blasphemous talk?  Lies and slander. 

All serious tho MMO's is more of a visual medium and people tend to want to play dress up with pretty Elves and Humans.  I've been rocking a Dwarf Warrior in WoW since like 2004.

On the tabletop both RPG's and wargames Dwarfs are far more popular I feel like.  The culture and aesthetics of Dwarfs are so strong and fun to play for many people.    

Survey say that female dwarf are the least play achtype and percentage is about the same as those who believe the world is flat.
 

Dwarf male are popular in specifically either a hunter range or classic warrior class

[novakai]

2 minutes ago, lare2 said:

He definitely gets sent models in advance but no idea how far in advance. 

Most people don’t get it until the models are officially revealed by Warcom

[Public Universal Duardin]

16 minutes ago, Doko said:

As dwarf lover i hope gw never release a female dwarf.

Dwarf must be male,ripped muscles,long beards and with heavy armor,it is posible skip heavy armor if it is a slayer but female is a huge NEVER.

And im pretty sure that the 90% dwarfs fans think the same,sure maybe female dwarfs gonna bring new players to the faction,but i dont think any actual dispossesed\fyreslayer\kharadron player want any female dwarf.

Plz gw if you are reading this,forget female dwarfs and focus in cavalry and very diferent aestetical units as fyreslayers with heavy armor or magmagolems

That's going into the book

It's going into the book so hard I had to "unreact" a post I really enjoyed just so I could 😕  here. Now THAT is e-grudging!

[Public Universal Duardin]

2 minutes ago, novakai said:

Survey say that female dwarf are the least play achtype and percentage is about the same as those who believe the world is flat.
 

Dwarf male are popular in specifically either a hunter range or classic warrior class

Luckily we are on TGA, playing a game where the Realms actually happen to be flat

So from a certain point of view...female duardin supports SURGES to 100%!

[Noserenda]

18 minutes ago, Doko said:

As dwarf lover i hope gw never release a female dwarf.

Dwarf must be male,ripped muscles,long beards and with heavy armor,it is posible skip heavy armor if it is a slayer but female is a huge NEVER.

And im pretty sure that the 90% dwarfs fans think the same,sure maybe female dwarfs gonna bring new players to the faction,but i dont think any actual dispossesed\fyreslayer\kharadron player want any female dwarf.

Plz gw if you are reading this,forget female dwarfs and focus in cavalry and very diferent aestetical units as fyreslayers with heavy armor or magmagolems

Eww i think youve confused dwarf fans with basement dwellers there...

Plenty of Dwarves in Wow, levelled a couple myself and was part of a purely dwarf guild in classic to boot. Its a popular fantasy race, included in pretty much every setting that has various races around in some form, and lets be honest, there are absolutely no shortage of fantasy races out there

Hell, Elf fan/Dwarf fan is like the Cat people/ Dog people of fantasy gaming

[Doko]

14 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I won't buy male Fyreslayers, because the Underworld box gives all the unit variety they have, and I have that.

I would buy Female Fyreslayers

So is as i said, a no dwarf player asking for female dwarf while actual gw dwarfs players dont want female.

Yes  the 90% numbers was 100% random but after play 20+ years to mmorpgs(since everquest1) i can say fur sure that female dwarfs have been the least played race,even female gnomes is more popular or female seraphons(iksars in mmos) 

I really dont get how male dudes play with female toons in mmorpgs but for sure female elfs are very popular with those dudes,but female dwarf isnt played for nobody.

So pretty sure the miniatures games gonna be the same,and these gw copys companys create female dwarfs because havent copyrigths 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Doko

[Magnusaur]

I don't interpret - as others seem to do - the meagre amount of new models as proof that GW is unwilling to further invest in and expand on Fyreslayers and Idoneth. On the contrary. When Blood of the Phoenix (although rightfully criticized) came out, a lot of people were certain the 'feedback loop' would doom the range and ensure no other Eldar models would see the light of day. And now look!

History isn't over - neither that of the Mortal Realms or our own world. 2022 will not be the final batch of model releases from GW and in the grand scheme of things a model range released in '16 or '18 is still new. Recovering from the virus in these days, I feel privileged to be around for another spin of the old planet, eager to see what the new year (and hopefully many more) holds in store for us as hobbyists. Stay safe, stay positive, and happy new year to all.

 

[Bosskelot]

3 hours ago, novakai said:

I say we be happy with and not be picky any new kits we get for KO or FS even if it just all males again since it not like Dwarf have been a popular concept in fantasy to begin with. At least this is true in my MMO experience unless they are a range damage dealer class with a gun.

Can't speak for other franchises necessarily, but for all the bluster and noise Dwarf fans make within Warhammer they were never an especially popular faction back during WHFB.

[Drazhoath]

31 minutes ago, Doko said:

As dwarf lover i hope gw never release a female dwarf.

Dwarf must be male,ripped muscles,long beards and with heavy armor,it is posible skip heavy armor if it is a slayer but female is a huge NEVER.

And im pretty sure that the 90% dwarfs fans think the same,sure maybe female dwarfs gonna bring new players to the faction,but i dont think any actual dispossesed\fyreslayer\kharadron player want any female dwarf.

Plz gw if you are reading this,forget female dwarfs and focus in cavalry and very diferent aestetical units as fyreslayers with heavy armor or magmagolems

I am on this forum for 3 or 4 years and I swear this is the dumbest of all dumbest posts I ever read…by far!

[EccentricCircle]

7 minutes ago, Doko said:

So is as i said, a no dwarf player asking for female dwarf while actual gw dwarfs players dont want female

You realise that several pages of this thread today have been dedicated to nothing but warhammer dwarf players discussing how we wanr female models? I think its safe to say that all the evidence suggests that we, you know, do in fact want them!