The Rumour Thread

[Incineroar87]

Are we likely to get a standalone Moonclan Battletome or Battletome with all the orc and goblin factions under the one name with the recent announcement ?

[HollowHills]

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

I personally don't care for the soup books.

So many of the units that could have a place to shine are dulled by the presence of other in faction much better units.  It's like stormcast with liberators and paladins VS sequators and evocators.

Beast of chaos has the same sort of problem where a good number of the units just don't have a place at all in even i'd say a semi comeptive since of any given force. 

Even new armies have that though. DoK don't take the bloodstalkers, Deepkin don't take thralls or reavers etc. 

I don't think it's a problem with soup books, just that large armies with many choices tend to leave you with clear winners and losers. It's much easier to make everything balanced in an army with two or three units and some heroes than one which might have five or six troop choices. 

[mmimzie]

11 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Even new armies have that though. DoK don't take the bloodstalkers, Deepkin don't take thralls or reavers etc. 

I don't think it's a problem with soup books, just that large armies with many choices tend to leave you with clear winners and losers. It's much easier to make everything balanced in an army with two or three units and some heroes than one which might have five or six troop choices. 

Sure but there is room there to make a reason to take reavers and thralls right?? Like reacers and thralls can be used become a more durable, horde style recurrsion list. A different list for the same faction that give it another very different way of playing than the eel list.  There is a whole suit of synergy for thralls/reavers. Scryers letting yo uget 20 +9" to thier charge so you can actualy get 20 thralls on the board to all attack turn 1, With turtle and reavers backing up the thralls. Tidec aster general switch the tides so the reavers can run and shoot turn 1, and the turtle gives cover you would normaly lose. Then turn 2 you strike first with a blender of thralls to contend with.  The main thing is that currently thralls maybe are to expensive or eels are too cheap right now. There is atleast a semi competive thrall/reaver list that could go 3 out of 5 wins at a tournament. 

DoK i don't know so well, but poor units like that i'd say should be scrapped of given purpose. Maytbe giving they synergy with the melee snake for instance. That give both a real and compeling purpose. 

[novakai]

57 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Are we likely to get a standalone Moonclan Battletome or Battletome with all the orc and goblin factions under the one name with the recent announcement ?

with the recent Nightvault release of two Moonclan warband, the Moonclan Fungoid Shaman released early this year, and a lot of rumor about them specifically, I am leaning more on a Moonclan battletome release more then anything else really. Also it look like their are actual new unit for Moonclan are on the way which doesn't match with their soup battletome release since they haven't release those book with new models yet.

I think we are reading too much into the poster, like two of those faction (Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz) have battletome already and the only hint you could really get from it is possibly Moonclan and Spiderfang being roll into one. ( or there a separate spiderfang battletome release happen soon afterwards)

 

[Brush.Addict]

17 minutes ago, novakai said:

with the recent Nightvault release of two Moonclan warband, the Moonclan Fungoid Shaman released early this year, and a lot of rumor about them specifically, I am leaning more on a Moonclan battletome release more then anything else really. Also it look like their are actual new unit for Moonclan are on the way which doesn't match with their soup battletome release since they haven't release those book with new models yet.

I think we are reading too much into the poster, like two of those faction (Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz) have battletome already and the only hint you could really get from it is possibly Moonclan and Spiderfang being roll into one. ( or there a separate spiderfang battletome release happen soon afterwards)

 

I'm really quite excited for a Moonclan Battletome, they way GW have been going recently with all the new Battletomes I think a moonclan one would be brilliant. 

I've been wowed by the newer battletomes, the content has been fantastic not to mention how all the new allegiance abilities and warscolls make for some very interesting and exciting games of Aos.

The absolute madness that would follow a Moonclan release would be brilliant. 

[HollowHills]

58 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Sure but there is room there to make a reason to take reavers and thralls right?? Like reacers and thralls can be used become a more durable, horde style recurrsion list. A different list for the same faction that give it another very different way of playing than the eel list.  There is a whole suit of synergy for thralls/reavers. Scryers letting yo uget 20 +9" to thier charge so you can actualy get 20 thralls on the board to all attack turn 1, With turtle and reavers backing up the thralls. Tidec aster general switch the tides so the reavers can run and shoot turn 1, and the turtle gives cover you would normaly lose. Then turn 2 you strike first with a blender of thralls to contend with.  The main thing is that currently thralls maybe are to expensive or eels are too cheap right now. There is atleast a semi competive thrall/reaver list that could go 3 out of 5 wins at a tournament. 

DoK i don't know so well, but poor units like that i'd say should be scrapped of given purpose. Maytbe giving they synergy with the melee snake for instance. That give both a real and compeling purpose. 

And you could take a soup list for LoN that used zombies instead of skeletons or hex wraiths instead of bladeghast and it might also do 3/5. The point is you'd be deliberately playing a sub optimal list. The original argument was that a soup battletome makes this more likely, which as I say is not the case. 

You can always chose to play sub optimal, it's just the wrong choice at a competitive level. At a casual level everything in LoN is usable and I would say more enjoyable than in the old grand alliance death thst existed prior. 

Armies with lots of unit choice fighting for similar roles like LoN or stormcast result in some units seeing a lot of play and others dying out. In tiny armies like Ironjawz or Fyrrslayers this is not the case as you are literally limited to what exists. . It has nothing to do with soup. 

[Hoseman]

Does the novels posted on the community give us something to think about?? Gotrek is from the world that was so why put him on a novel instead of any other dwarf? I get the novel that featured Neave Blacktalon and the one with darkoath warqueen but why an ancient hero on a Sigmar age novel? Is he going to come again? I think I read somewhere that maybe he and other guy will return but don't know. 

 And for the green guy? Is he bretonian? And for that scourge privateers female?? What a wonderful model for a miniature! It would be cool to see expanded scourge army and maybe that novels give us something like a preview... maybe they will go for legends? New battletomes? Soup battletome for elfs? 

[Double Misfire]

48 minutes ago, Hoseman said:

Does the novels posted on the community give us something to think about?? Gotrek is from the world that was so why put him on a novel instead of any other dwarf? I get the novel that featured Neave Blacktalon and the one with darkoath warqueen but why an ancient hero on a Sigmar age novel? Is he going to come again? I think I read somewhere that maybe he and other guy will return but don't know. 

 And for the green guy? Is he bretonian? And for that scourge privateers female?? What a wonderful model for a miniature! It would be cool to see expanded scourge army and maybe that novels give us something like a preview... maybe they will go for legends? New battletomes? Soup battletome for elfs? 

Gotrek's making his AoS debut next month in a new audio series staring Brian Blessed, originally announced in February:

https://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/november/gotrek-realmslayer-mp3.html

Between sharing a cover with the AoS logo and CARRYING A BLOODY FIREARM it's very unlikely the green guy you mentioned is a Bretonnian. If the lady Scourge Privateer is written by Nick Horth, she's probably Arika Zenthe, the corsiar queen/mafia boss who featured in his Calis and Toll books, City of Secrets and The Silver Shard.  

 

Image of Gotrek and link to today's community site article announcing new novellas for anyone else is interested:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/10/new-novellas-to-collect-and-read/

[Kramer]

14 hours ago, mmimzie said:

yeah if you souped all the orks than maybe the gore gruntas start to become useless or the arboys are replaced my whatever; or the opposite happens.

So i'm more a fan of smalled armies or at least armies built with every unit having a very clear purpose. 

Also a question for @Ravinsild, even if that means only getting a moonclan update/battletome and then waiting for a year, maybe more, for the next updates. Things like spider riders maybe getting the Legends treatment? Gitmob grots, greenskinz definitely not making it. 

Still worth it?

Genuinely curious to hear your opinions. The way I look it, GW has limited resources. Making a battletome LON style might be more effort than a Daughters of Khaine book but it covers so much more ground. Covering more ground means giving more factions attention. (opening up time for new never seen things ). So for me Green soup would be amazing! 
And even in a smaller tome some units are just not useful enough (though they look great BloodStalkers are an example of that) so that's not really an argument in my mind. Not to mention that more options might mean more sales. But that's just guesswork on my part. 

[Overread]

I'm still on the fence about Inferno (new and old) but those short novels I'm very into! I also like that there isn't a single Stormcast on the cover and hope that they might not have many if any in the stories themselves. Not that I hate Stormcast, but the current novels are very very full of them - it would be both refreshing and important to give strength to the other factions to have them stand on their own feet against the struggles and trials of the Mortal Realms. 

[Kronos]

That Gotrek Grunisson Artwork looks very good, also shows slayers did and do look better in pants.  I hope they release a model for h8m, but hope is the first step to dissapointment. The Elf is peculiar, a corsair, but not a dark one.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Kronos

[mmimzie]

8 hours ago, HollowHills said:

And you could take a soup list for LoN that used zombies instead of skeletons or hex wraiths instead of bladeghast and it might also do 3/5. The point is you'd be deliberately playing a sub optimal list. The original argument was that a soup battletome makes this more likely, which as I say is not the case. 

You can always chose to play sub optimal, it's just the wrong choice at a competitive level. At a casual level everything in LoN is usable and I would say more enjoyable than in the old grand alliance death thst existed prior. 

Armies with lots of unit choice fighting for similar roles like LoN or stormcast result in some units seeing a lot of play and others dying out. In tiny armies like Ironjawz or Fyrrslayers this is not the case as you are literally limited to what exists. . It has nothing to do with soup. 

yeah but you missed the point.

What i said was you can make it so that thralls are as good as morrsarr. Or i should say GW could. GW could make morrsarr cost 180 for 3. The morrsarr are still good but a thrall list could also be good. or make thralls cost 120 etc. Either way by making one worse or the other better they aren't nessarily mutualy exclusive to one another. It's not sub optimal its that both are optimal list that play the game differently within the same faction.

Skeletons and sombie, sequaitors and liberators, paladins retributors, gors and bestigors, etc all fill a pretty similar purpose to eachother this purpose is so similar that one will ALWAYS just be the better choice. there is no grey area.  Heck look at chimera vs the other behmoths in the beast man list. It's like why would you take them over a chimera it's just so much better. 

Conversely sequators are good, but evocators are also good. That said they both can exist in the same exact meta and be good together even in the same exact list. One does not make taking the other seems like a bad idea because you bring them for completely different reasons and the other doesn't make.

Similarly thralls and morrsarr while they generaly wouldn't be in the same list as they both denote a very different game plan. There is a realistic world where a slower regening horde of thralls/reavers list could exist along side a morrsarr/ishlaen fast pin you down ID list.  This though is only an issue of balance.

There is no balance that makes a zombie list vs a skeleton list in LoN.  As if you make zombies good than you'd take zombies of skeletons, and the opposite is true, because they do the exact same thing. They ahve the exact same purpose. The way you could use zombie compelingly is if you had a faction that was specificly zombies.

It's out purpose and in big book with tons of very similar units. There simply isn't enough of a purpose in any given game of AoS to suppost HUGE armies with 20+ unit factions. It just won't work and some units will be completely relegated out of purpose as they will be sub optimal with no reason to take them over the better choice. 

TLDR: Morrsarr vs thralls are two different game plans. If you do a magic the gather reference it's like playing aggro blue vs control blue both are good, but the cards in one deck are mutual exclusive to the other becuase the plan different.  Skeletons/zombie, sequators/liberators, chimera/all the other monsters in beast of chaos, and evocators/paladins all do the exact same thing as their counter part there is nothing subtle about thier difference from one another, and as such they will always be at odds with each other and there will also be a clear winner and loser. The lose will be relegated to uselessness. They can't exist together. Make smaller factions with ever unit having a purpose all it's own.

[Ravinsild]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

Also a question for @Ravinsild, even if that means only getting a moonclan update/battletome and then waiting for a year, maybe more, for the next updates. Things like spider riders maybe getting the Legends treatment? Gitmob grots, greenskinz definitely not making it. 

Still worth it?

Genuinely curious to hear your opinions. The way I look it, GW has limited resources. Making a battletome LON style might be more effort than a Daughters of Khaine book but it covers so much more ground. Covering more ground means giving more factions attention. (opening up time for new never seen things ). So for me Green soup would be amazing! 
And even in a smaller tome some units are just not useful enough (though they look great BloodStalkers are an example of that) so that's not really an argument in my mind. Not to mention that more options might mean more sales. But that's just guesswork on my part. 

I think Orcs and Goblins should be split into 4 Battletomes. 

Moonclan Grots, Spiderfang Grots like a BCR Calvary everyone is mounted style grot army, Regular Orks and Goblins as a more general faction with a little of everything, then we already have Bonesplittaz and Ironjawz. 

I think it would work out properly with proper model support and Battletome support. 

[sorokyl]

 

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I think Orcs and Goblins should be split into 4 Battletomes. 

Moonclan Grots, Spiderfang Grots like a BCR Calvary everyone is mounted style grot army, Regular Orks and Goblins as a more general faction with a little of everything, then we already have Bonesplittaz and Ironjawz. 

 I think it would work out properly with proper model support and Battletome support. 

I think you suggested 5?  Moonclan, Spiderfang, Greenskinz, Bonesplitters, Ironjawz? Or which do you suggest should be combined?

I think it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that GW does not want generic Tolkien factions.  the Greenskinz orcs days are numbered. 
 

[The Golem]

2 hours ago, Kronos said:

The Elf is peculiar, a corsair, but not a dark one.

Considering "Heart of Winter" is written by Nick Horth, I wonder if the corsair could be Arika Zenthe from "City of Secrets". Although she doesn't wear a sea dragon cloak, her blades look pretty much like those of the Scourge Privateers.

Bigger picture of the aelf corsair, because why not:

Man I really hope GW will update the Scourge Privateers one day, they have the potential to be my favorite faction.

[Ravinsild]

18 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

 

I think you suggested 5?  Moonclan, Spiderfang, Greenskinz, Bonesplitters, Ironjawz? Or which do you suggest should be combined?

I think it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that GW does not want generic Tolkien factions.  the Greenskinz orcs days are numbered. 
 

I think there’s a long enough history of Orruks to completely differentiate them from being rip-off Tolkien Orcs. Not to mention Warhammer literally made up green Orcs. They’re literally iconic. Yes, Warcraft ripped it off, but it remains a fact that Warhammer Orks are pretty iconic for the way they speak, the fact they’re green, and their overall culture. 

I would hope there’s a safe place for Greenskinz in the company that invented greenskinz in the first place. 

Moonclan would be it’s own Battletome. 

Spiderfang Grots would be like mini BCRs but with grot flair for self harming funny shenanigans. 

There should remain regular green skins and Grots in a combined Battletome that’s just a soup of anything that doesn’t belong to Bonesplittaz, Ironjawz, Moonclan or Spiderfang. 

I think there’s something to be said for “generic” fantasy races, even if Tolkien did it first. That’s because it’s familiar and “safe.” Some people don’t want Sky Dwarves or red Mohawk naked Dwarves, they just want regular old cool Dwarves and they don’t want to play a completely different game to get that experience. 

Then Ironjawz and Bonesplittaz are already their own thing and they make sense too. 

[Skreech Verminking]

25 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

 

I think you suggested 5?  Moonclan, Spiderfang, Greenskinz, Bonesplitters, Ironjawz? Or which do you suggest should be combined?

I think it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that GW does not want generic Tolkien factions.  the Greenskinz orcs days are numbered. 
 

Mmmh i don’t really necessarily think so.

the Greenskinz rather fit very well in a Ironjaws army in my perspective.

why should an Ironjaw army only consist of heavy armored very elite orcs?

i think combining the boys,  boys on pigs something.....? and the orruk warboss with the Ironjaws, would be a great combination.

this would also give you the feel back of beeing able to finally field a green tide on the battlefield, which was with a only Ironjaws army almost impossible.

it would also fit very good with the Ironjaws fluff.

also there probably won’t be a too big problem with the competitive side, since Gore grunted would still be and stay one of the best Calvary in the game, even after boys on those pigs-things are a part of the army.

the same goes with Ardboys and normal boys.

ardboys are still much better then the normal boys, even if they cost 160p.

but having the option of fielding some boys instead of Ardboys as meatshields/canonfodder/diefor Mork(or was it Gork?)things would fit the fluff much better.

also isn’t it the same fluff with the greenskinz (normal old Ork faction) and the Ironjaws, that both of them get drawn to the mightiest champions of Gork (or was it Mork?)?

 

 

(ps:everything written hear is just how i feel about the greenskinz Ironjaws etc..

every argument against it is happily welcomed)

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Ravinsild]

11 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Mmmh i don’t really necessarily think so.

the Greenskinz rather fit very well in a Ironjaws army in my perspective.

why should an Ironjaw army only consist of heavy armored very elite orcs?

i think combining the boys,  boys on pigs something.....? and the orruk warboss with the Ironjaws, would be a great combination.

this would also give you the feel back of beeing able to finally field a green tide on the battlefield, which was with a only Ironjaws army almost impossible.

it would also fit very good with the Ironjaws fluff.

also there probably won’t be a too big problem with the competitive side, since Gore grunted would still be and stay one of the best Calvary in the game, even after boys on those pigs-things are a part of the army.

the same goes with Ardboys and normal boys.

ardboys are still much better then the normal boys, even if they cost 160p.

but having the option of fielding some boys instead of Ardboys as meatshields/canonfodder/diefor Mork(or was it Gork?)things would fit the fluff much better.

 

(ps:everything written hear is just how i feel about the greenskinz Ironjaws etc..

every argument against it is happily welcomed)

 

It doesn’t fit the fluff at all. Have you read the Ironjawz Battletome or know anything about them? 

They’re a special kind of super Orruk formed from the Age of Chaos, spending eons doing nothing but fighting and getting bigga and stronga dan anyone else in da realms! 

Dey’s da biggest and da best! That’s why they’re an elite army. They’re literally better than all the other Orks and there aren’t that many of them comparatively. 

Ardboys are literally regular Orruk hanger-on wannabe’s that are regular Orks who do super crazy stuff to prove how brutal, metal and tough they are so they’ll get recognition and approval from actual Ironjawz. 

Regular greenskins are completely different. 

Ironjawz are not a Horde army fantasy, they’re the best of the best fantasy. Greenskins are Horde, Ironjawz are elite. Ironjawz are an army of all Warbosses and their warbosses are called mega bosses. 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ravinsild

[Skreech Verminking]

33 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

It doesn’t fit the fluff at all. Have you read the Ironjawz Battletome or know anything about them? 

They’re a special kind of super Orruk formed from the Age of Chaos, spending eons doing nothing but fighting and getting bigga and stronga dan anyone else in da realms! 

Dey’s da biggest and da best! That’s why they’re an elite army. They’re literally better than all the other Orks and there aren’t that many of them comparatively. 

Ardboys are literally regular Orruk hanger-on wannabe’s that are regular Orks who do super crazy stuff to prove how brutal, metal and tough they are so they’ll get recognition and approval from actual Ironjawz. 

Regular greenskins are completely different. 

Ironjawz are not a Horde army fantasy, they’re the best of the best fantasy. Greenskins are Horde, Ironjawz are elite. Ironjawz are an army of all Warbosses and their warbosses are called mega bosses. 

 

I read some of it but may have missed the most important bits

thanks for replaying.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[sorokyl]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

 

i think combining the boys,  boys on pigs something.....? and the orruk warboss with the Ironjaws, would be a great combination.

this would also give you the feel back of beeing able to finally field a green tide on the battlefield, which was with a only Ironjaws army almost impossible.

6

8

1. Ironjaws already has boys.  And pig riders. 
2. Want to play a lot of Orcs? Play Bonesplitters. Only slightly more expensive than Greenskinz.  Bonesplitterz already has boys and pig boys too. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by sorokyl

[Skreech Verminking]

31 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

1. Ironjaws already has boys.  And pig riders. 
2. Want to play a lot of Orcs? Play Bonesplitters. Only slightly more expensive than Greenskinz.  Bonesplitterz already has boys and pig boys too. 

Mmh I do like bonesplittaz But was thinking of building an Greenskinz/Ironjaws army. (Mixed destructioned)

(i really love the old times when the big Whaaaaaaaag with GRIMGORE was still a thing)

and Than Boc came back from the dead.

anyways are there any new rumors of some new/old army coming out soon/getting some kind of battletome or beeing updated?

 

 

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I think there’s a long enough history of Orruks to completely differentiate them from being rip-off Tolkien Orcs. Not to mention Warhammer literally made up green Orcs. They’re literally iconic. Yes, Warcraft ripped it off, but it remains a fact that Warhammer Orks are pretty iconic for the way they speak, the fact they’re green, and their overall culture. 

I would hope there’s a safe place for Greenskinz in the company that invented greenskinz in the first place. 

Moonclan would be it’s own Battletome. 

Spiderfang Grots would be like mini BCRs but with grot flair for self harming funny shenanigans. 

There should remain regular green skins and Grots in a combined Battletome that’s just a soup of anything that doesn’t belong to Bonesplittaz, Ironjawz, Moonclan or Spiderfang. 

I think there’s something to be said for “generic” fantasy races, even if Tolkien did it first. That’s because it’s familiar and “safe.” Some people don’t want Sky Dwarves or red Mohawk naked Dwarves, they just want regular old cool Dwarves and they don’t want to play a completely different game to get that experience. 

Then Ironjawz and Bonesplittaz are already their own thing and they make sense too. 

I agree with this, I think it's way too easy to dismiss Greenskinz as generic / Tolkien orcs which massively undersells GW's contribution to the trope.  The Tolkien Orcs were not particularly large and muscled - the vision of the Green Hercules is absolutely GW's creation.  Tolkien used the terms Orc and Goblin interchageably which emphatically is not the case in Warhammer.

Or to look at it another way - there could never be a Legions of Nagash tome, because GW cannot copyright Skeletons or Zombies.

Greenskinz are way more GW's own creation than either of those.

Front and centre posterboys?  Never again.  But they certainly have their place as units within a larger faction.

[PlasticCraic]

If I was wishlisting for a Green Soup tome, I would personally put Greenskinz, Gitmob, Spiderfang, Troggoths and Aleguzzlers in there.

Mostly plastic, a good range of models and Battlefield roles, some bodies, some punch.  On the tabletop it would look like a proper army and a bit of a rabble at the same time.

I get that some people might not want Spiderfang in there because they could conceivably get their own tome one day.  However I think they should be included because they don't have the range of warscrolls to be a proper army in their own right, so the other factions support them.  Whereas they offer something very cool and unique to the book as a whole, so it squares the circle nicely.

[novakai]

Ideally I think they should just combined Greenskins and Gitmobs together ( with the Giants and troll ), give them their own battletome, update a few models and make them like the Imperial guards of destruction, Where they have really loose battalion keywords that allows them to ally in with every other Destruction factions without taking up ally points (like the chaos battalion do in BoC) but still be able to play as themselves.

IMO I still think that Spiderfang, Moonclan, and Gutbuster with Maneater (Firebellies?) should get their own Battletome evetually

 

[Fisher KIng]

14 hours ago, novakai said:

( or there a separate spiderfang battletome release happen soon afterwards)

Please let this happen!!!!!!!