The Rumour Thread

[Panzer]

14 hours ago, HollowHills said:

Anyone else hate bonereapers? 

For me they are just far too extreme in their look. It comes off as wacky. 

I want to like them. I really do. But the more models I see the more I see  things I dislike.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Panzer

[Beliman]

29 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

Flying eels seem reasonable to me. A leg chair is just absurd. 

I need an army based around leg-chair dudes now!!!!

[Barbossal]

30 minutes ago, Panzer said:

I want to like them. I really do. But the more models I see the more things I see I dislike.

Yeah this is where I land on the Tomb King successors as well. There's a gem of cool inside the Bonereapers that I find appealing - a bone construct army with east asian design influences SHOULD be a buy for me, but I think the designs got turned up to 15 instead of 11 and it just feels messy.

[Sabotage!]

9 hours ago, PraetorDragoon said:

Blood Bowl/Warcry/Underworlds/Necromunda/other specilist games can easily be bundled together in a single week of release. 

I don't think we will see all of it. Just not enough time. 

That could be. I personally doubt we will get a second Psychic Awakening release this year, and honestly I don't think we will see Ogres or Tzeentch either.

[Overread]

I can see Ogors happening as GW has teased them before with a model. Tzeentch we've never had any confirmed rumour on being next and its so late now that I'd be surprised to see another Tome after Ogors this year. Next year of course anything is possible. Tzeentch, KO and Seraphon each need a new Tome whilst Slaves will also need their first Tome. Interestingly with more models coming out through Warcry Slaves might be a big Tome, but without the big launch of models as many might be out long before it hits the shelves. 

4 Tomes, 4 Months - we could be 2.0 fully by April or May. 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

1 hour ago, HollowHills said:

Flying eels seem reasonable to me. A leg chair is just absurd. 

I agree, why doesn’t he just make himself have giant legs? 

The bone construct thing is interesting because they all have different looks and theoretically they can construct whatever they want.

But there seems to be no real reason why everything isn’t just 1) giant 2) have more arms.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

I agree, why doesn’t he just make himself have giant legs? 

The bone construct thing is interesting because they all have different looks and theoretically they can construct whatever they want.

But there seems to be no real reason why everything isn’t just 1) giant 2) have more arms.

Don't forget they are all once living creatures of the Realms (most likely humans). Even though their bodies are crushed and their souls reforged into merged hybrids, they likely retain most of their association and connection to their original bodies. As a result it makes sense that the bodies they'd have fashioned around themselves would be more humanoid in appearance. 

We don't yet know much about their society either, but its clear that whilst they are built like a machine, they are far from machine-like. I think that's why many of them are simply humanoid.

 

Of course at the same time there's also the powerful constructs themselves which show that such creations are possible. Though it might be that they are far more complex to create or could even come with their own problems and issues as a result of the nature of their creation and design. 

[Sabotage!]

1 hour ago, Overread said:

I can see Ogors happening as GW has teased them before with a model. Tzeentch we've never had any confirmed rumour on being next and its so late now that I'd be surprised to see another Tome after Ogors this year. Next year of course anything is possible. Tzeentch, KO and Seraphon each need a new Tome whilst Slaves will also need their first Tome. Interestingly with more models coming out through Warcry Slaves might be a big Tome, but without the big launch of models as many might be out long before it hits the shelves. 

4 Tomes, 4 Months - we could be 2.0 fully by April or May. 

That would be pretty awesome. I would really like to see Slaves get a book. It would probably get me to start playing AoS again. Other than the Warcry bands they don't need much added to their line. I could see the release just being a book, spells, a terrain piece, and Varanguard on foot/Chaos Warriors resculpt  and a character.

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

I agree, why doesn’t he just make himself have giant legs? 

The bone construct thing is interesting because they all have different looks and theoretically they can construct whatever they want.

But there seems to be no real reason why everything isn’t just 1) giant 2) have more arms.

Status, a symbol of authority, the look of having a throne, maybe it's some sort of magical focus (see the stone and gem), being able  to peer over ranks of constructs while still sitting in the reclined position their high rank deserves, being able to get out of their chair to go to court or work in the lab and then get back in for other reasons.

All the cultural and emotional reasons someone might want that kind of thing. There's no reason everything has to revert to exactly the same form.

[Whitefang]

2 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

I agree, why doesn’t he just make himself have giant legs? 

The bone construct thing is interesting because they all have different looks and theoretically they can construct whatever they want.

But there seems to be no real reason why everything isn’t just 1) giant 2) have more arms.

Oh why don’t just make the chair flowing?

Come on you have the magic to bind soul already, you just need a bit more to make you cooler!

[Dirtnaps]

1 hour ago, Whitefang said:

Oh why don’t just make the chair flowing?

Come on you have the magic to bind soul already, you just need a bit more to make you cooler!

It'd look too similar to Kurdoss if they made it a floating chair, besides their thing is sculpting bone and metal into constructs so it makes sense that they would have done that for transportation. I think a four legged walking construct with a throne built into it, it might have received less of a backlash from some people but personally I like the Baba Yaga style chicken leg walking chair.

[Overread]

Four legs might have been too grand for a regular unit. Perhaps a leader in the future might have four or six legged chairs

[Rogue Explorator]

5 hours ago, Overread said:

Don't forget they are all once living creatures of the Realms (most likely humans). Even though their bodies are crushed and their souls reforged into merged hybrids, they likely retain most of their association and connection to their original bodies. As a result it makes sense that the bodies they'd have fashioned around themselves would be more humanoid in appearance. 

We don't yet know much about their society either, but its clear that whilst they are built like a machine, they are far from machine-like. I think that's why many of them are simply humanoid.

 

Of course at the same time there's also the powerful constructs themselves which show that such creations are possible. Though it might be that they are far more complex to create or could even come with their own problems and issues as a result of the nature of their creation and design. 

I think this might be why so many have noses and those grotesque facial expressions. Like they attempt to reshape their forms to fit what they have once been, or believe they have been, but can't get it right and slide straight into the uncanny valley.

We don't know how delusional these guys are, but considering they are created by smashing together different souls and with the strong theme of dementia I personally get from Death altogether, I'd venture the Bonereapers are propably more than a little unhinged.

To show what I mean when I write theme of Dementia: The Flesheaters delusions. The dissolved and subverted identities of most Nighthaunt. Mortarchs from the old world not really knowing who they are, if they even really are the originals at all. Even Nagash being fuzzy on his own past, unlike the other former incarnates.

 

Chicken Throne man is definitely one of my favorites in the range. The guy himself actually looks far more dignified and threatening than most other reapers, but the hipbone and chickenlegs throne and skelepope hat really offset that nicely. It (quite literally) puts him above the other Reapers, but he's a part of their grotesque procession all the same.

 

[Inquisitorsz]

I just wish they'd stuck to a more reasonable Morghast aesthetic with Bonereapers. 
I feel they've taken that style (similar armor etc) and dialed it up to 12. 
Skeletons just look plain weird with noses and grins. 
And all the other stuff with multiple random limbs of different body types etc just looks more like tyranids than morghasts to me. 
They were very close with some of the normal samurai looking guys, and the mortarch then said... "nah, that's too normal, lets make a catapult with 15 legs, a hamster wheel and a guy holding a gear, with no real mechanical components in sight." 
Some of the heroes look fantastic, and then you have the fat corpse cart on chicken legs with a crotch face.... it feels so disjointed. 

12 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:

I think this might be why so many have noses and those grotesque facial expressions. Like they attempt to reshape their forms to fit what they have once been, or believe they have been, but can't get it right and slide straight into the uncanny valley.

I feel like this could have been achieved in a better way though. 
Maybe have them hold onto precious items they once possessed... or clothing or something. I would have preferred a whole army based around morghasts than this "bone soup". 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Inquisitorsz

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

Perhaps it’s a brush to keep those bones nice and clean

[alghero81]

5 hours ago, Rogue Explorator said:

Even Nagash being fuzzy on his own past, unlike the other former incarnates.

We know for sure he has the memory of a goldfish in particular when considering Skaven ruining his plans or building pyramids not bringing him good luck.

Im now more interested in the rules because I liked the Nighthaunt but they are too squishy for me and no real interesting army ability. I hope they feel that gap in the death army outside of delusional ghouls.

[Sällsam]

Do we have any rumours on the Bonereapers – rule wise? Besides from the image leaks that is.  

[Overread]

2 hours ago, Sällsam said:

Do we have any rumours on the Bonereapers – rule wise? Besides from the image leaks that is.  

Not really. We've some general idea that they might not be a hoard army but not a full elite, so somewhere in the middle. The army photos we've seen thus far also generally support them being middle of the row in terms of model count. Meanwhile the support leaders and the harvester hints suggest that they will be a bit like Necrons in having revival mechanics. This might also include summoning mechanics as well. Indeed quite a few of their leaders appear built for support so that suggests a fair bit of synergy within the army itself. Core models reliant on leaders to provide supporting benefits. 

After that we've only one ranged model in the trebuchet (which in this latest article is said to benefit from the chair-leader being present) so, outside from spells, they appear to be a very close combat orientated army. 

Speed we don't really know, they've got cavalry and such but we've no real idea if they lumber toward the enemy or charge at a mad pace. 

We know that Katacross has a unique system in that the more damage he takes the more his stats improve; though we don't know if that is gradual or in distinct stages (representing his guards and generals around him being cut down until only he stands and chooses to join the combat). It's a neat idea and could be something we see more often for some larger monsters from the armies. Esp as right now many larger creatures often get a lot of focus from attacks to weaken them*.

But these are only general points and we've no idea of spells, specific abilities, auras, artifacts nor anything else really. We do know the stats for the models currently in death that can be added, but even then we don't know if they will stay the same or change (GW already has technically two stat and point lines for things like zombie dragons between legions and flesheaters; though if I recall right at present they are identical; but the potential is there to change them between armies to fit internal balance. 

 

*you can also get some funny situations. eg the Hieroduel for Tyranids (FW model) has a close combat and ranged version of itself. However the way that stats decay means that they lose more stats in their core performance area. This tends to mean that by the time they've taken equal damage the ranged version can end up better in close combat than the close combat variation. 

[Rogue Explorator]

8 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said:

I just wish they'd stuck to a more reasonable Morghast aesthetic with Bonereapers. 
I feel they've taken that style (similar armor etc) and dialed it up to 12. 
Skeletons just look plain weird with noses and grins. 
And all the other stuff with multiple random limbs of different body types etc just looks more like tyranids than morghasts to me. 
They were very close with some of the normal samurai looking guys, and the mortarch then said... "nah, that's too normal, lets make a catapult with 15 legs, a hamster wheel and a guy holding a gear, with no real mechanical components in sight." 
Some of the heroes look fantastic, and then you have the fat corpse cart on chicken legs with a crotch face.... it feels so disjointed. 

I feel like this could have been achieved in a better way though. 
Maybe have them hold onto precious items they once possessed... or clothing or something. I would have preferred a whole army based around morghasts than this "bone soup". 

I get that for a lot of people the Bonereapers aren't at all what they expected or wanted. And that it's upsetting, seeing how their existence makes it unlikely GW will ever actually make an army fitting what was desired, wether it's a Tomb King redo, a more grounded skeletal force, a more dignified construct army closer to the Morghast or Ushabti or something else entirely.

 

But personally I really appreciate what GW is doing with these. Only time will tell how well these will actually be received, but I can see I'm not alone.

 

To take your example, them holding on to memmorabilia would have a vastly different effect and connotations. The entire point of the Bonereapers, for me, is how absurd they are, physical manifestations of Nagashes twisted mind and hybris. That your suggestion would be more grounded runs exactly counter to the point I see in these. And it wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense with these being the Spearhead of notorious control freak Nagash.

 

Really, being a fan of this release is starting to get a bit exhausting. It feels a little like the earlier days of AoS, so many people who wanted something different or the old back. That's ok, but I would like a bit more acceptance that others enjoy the Bonereapers and might have a point in doing so.

[GeneralZero]

The catapult looks "bony" enough to mix/match my skeleton army. If the little characters onit look a bit weird, I'll replace them with some basic skeletons . And BAM, I'll have the so long awaited long range hitter for the death army. I doubt that this item won't be usable in a death classic army rule wise, at least as ally. It'd look amazing on the table.

[Inquisitorsz]

21 minutes ago, Rogue Explorator said:

To take your example, them holding on to memmorabilia would have a vastly different effect and connotations. The entire point of the Bonereapers, for me, is how absurd they are, physical manifestations of Nagashes twisted mind and hybris. That your suggestion would be more grounded runs exactly counter to the point I see in these. And it wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense with these being the Spearhead of notorious control freak Nagash.

Really, being a fan of this release is starting to get a bit exhausting. It feels a little like the earlier days of AoS, so many people who wanted something different or the old back. That's ok, but I would like a bit more acceptance that others enjoy the Bonereapers and might have a point in doing so.

That was just a super quick example off the top of my head. 
I think in regards to "physical manifestations of Nagash's twisted mind".... that could have still been done in a more cohesive way. 

Firstly, nagash presumabily also created Nighthaunt. One could argue that those guys are prehaps a bit TOO cohesive, and have too many units that look too similar. Perhaps they were trying to avoid that here. I think they went too far. 

Secondly, there's plenty of other "twisted" stuff out there like Slaanesh and Tzeentch which are generally much better miniatures. Even though I'm not personally a huge fan of Tzeentch demons or most of the new Slaanesh stuff... I "get" it. The army looks great visiually. It makes sense even though pink horrors have tounges coming out of their hands.  
There's lots of crazy, cooky and "ungrounded" goblins, skaven and nurgle too. 
Of course you have have fun with miniature design. You should. But these just seem wrong. And not in a "that makes me uncomfortable" chaos way. Just in a "bad" way. 

And like I mentioned before... it's not just the overall aestheic. It's also stuff that just doesn't make sense. One of the cataput crew is holding some sort of cog gear thing despite most of the construct not being mechanical.
I have no idea how a construct with 2 arms on each side is supposed to swing those two 2-handed weapons. 
They had  the beginings of a great samuri style going, and then mixed in random tyranid and necron bits. It looks like an army cobbled together from rejected designs they had lying around the office. 
One one hand you can have a rather awesome look mounted lord that's an evil deathly shadow of a stormcast hero. On the other hand you have an incredibly top heavy corpse cart with a monster head, metal arms, tiny chicken legs and a face for a crotch. 
I understand it's supposed to be "thrown together" from random body parts... but it still has to walk properly. It still has to be able to swing it's weapons or somehow harvest bodies as it's name suggests.  

All these construct designs just look like they wouldn't actuall work lol. Maybe that's it? We can look past some minor scale problems with Space Marine armour or the interior space of a rhino, or how the bricks that are Space Marine aircraft are supposed to fly... but the suspension of disbelief can only stretch so far. 
I think that's what happened here. It's just gone a bit too far and crossed over into WTF territory. 
Obviously that's just my opinion. I don't really have a horse in this race. I was highly unlikely to collect another death army, and I have next to no nostalgia for tomb kings. I was just expressing my thoughts on the new designs. 
Really, we probably shouldn't be derailing the rumor thread (sorry). 

I'm glad you like them. I'm glad GW is pushing the boundaries of design. But I do think that we perhaps a slight nod to TK or a more cohesive construct army, or a samuri themed faction would have made a lot more sense (yes I know GW needs brand new IP not anything based on real world, hard to copywrite themes). 

[Rogue Explorator]

2 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:

That was just a super quick example off the top of my head. 
I think in regards to "physical manifestations of Nagash's twisted mind".... that could have still been done in a more cohesive way. 

Firstly, nagash presumabily also created Nighthaunt. One could argue that those guys are prehaps a bit TOO cohesive, and have too many units that look too similar. Perhaps they were trying to avoid that here. I think they went too far. 

Secondly, there's plenty of other "twisted" stuff out there like Slaanesh and Tzeentch which are generally much better miniatures. Even though I'm not personally a huge fan of Tzeentch demons or most of the new Slaanesh stuff... I "get" it. The army looks great visiually. It makes sense even though pink horrors have tounges coming out of their hands.  
There's lots of crazy, cooky and "ungrounded" goblins, skaven and nurgle too. 
Of course you have have fun with miniature design. You should. But these just seem wrong. And not in a "that makes me uncomfortable" chaos way. Just in a "bad" way. 

And like I mentioned before... it's not just the overall aestheic. It's also stuff that just doesn't make sense. One of the cataput crew is holding some sort of cog gear thing despite most of the construct not being mechanical.
I have no idea how a construct with 2 arms on each side is supposed to swing those two 2-handed weapons. 
They had  the beginings of a great samuri style going, and then mixed in random tyranid and necron bits. It looks like an army cobbled together from rejected designs they had lying around the office. 
One one hand you can have a rather awesome look mounted lord that's an evil deathly shadow of a stormcast hero. On the other hand you have an incredibly top heavy corpse cart with a monster head, metal arms, tiny chicken legs and a face for a crotch. 
I understand it's supposed to be "thrown together" from random body parts... but it still has to walk properly. It still has to be able to swing it's weapons or somehow harvest bodies as it's name suggests.  

All these construct designs just look like they wouldn't actuall work lol. Maybe that's it? We can look past some minor scale problems with Space Marine armour or the interior space of a rhino, or how the bricks that are Space Marine aircraft are supposed to fly... but the suspension of disbelief can only stretch so far. 
I think that's what happened here. It's just gone a bit too far and crossed over into WTF territory. 
Obviously that's just my opinion. I don't really have a horse in this race. I was highly unlikely to collect another death army, and I have next to no nostalgia for tomb kings. I was just expressing my thoughts on the new designs. 
Really, we probably shouldn't be derailing the rumor thread (sorry). 

I'm glad you like them. I'm glad GW is pushing the boundaries of design. But I do think that we perhaps a slight nod to TK or a more cohesive construct army, or a samuri themed faction would have made a lot more sense (yes I know GW needs brand new IP not anything based on real world, hard to copywrite themes). 

Yeah, I didn't mean to particularly pick out your comment, I really found it more constructive than many others, just wanted to answer you along the way since you had posted quoting me.

 

Just a last few bits, before we got fully off-topic (though I'd say we are still discussing an upcoming release in context to a fresh announcement within the rather broad topic of this thread):

As you have said, these are wacky, wrong and twisted in a way unlike Chaos or goblins. Which is another important bit for me actually. I am also a great fan of Chaos and really want it to keep its special place and themes, narratively, but also in design.

I feel that in the past, with ghouls and vampires in Fantasy Battles, GW have strayed to far into Chaos territory. Crypt Horrors and the more changed Vampires just look to much like mutants to me. Same for the thankfully few mutated goblins in Gloomspite.

So personally I am really glad they took the risk and tried something different with the Bonereapers. Funnily, some of it actually elements that could be found in Chaos in the days of Realms of Chaos (when Undead where still a part of Chaos) but have since fallen out of use.

 

Incidentaly, for me Nighthaunt where the big dissapointment in AoS for exactly the reason you mentioned. They where way to cohesive and alike to what came before.

I was really looking forward to them and was enthused when they got a big release way sooner than I ever thought. But in the end, I just found them booring and thought GW really hadn't used the creative space the faction offered at all. Just countless variations of the same bedsheet ghost and banshee, when a mad mind like Nagash could twist a soul into any shape. I still got Soul Wars, but in the end I shrugged and moved on.

 

I wouldn't call Bonereapers lacking cohesion though. They carry their design elements, the melded bone, the plating, the cartoushes, the helmets, quite consequently through the entire line. They don't exactly map to any existing culture (which is something I'm very much in favor of)  and they are rather nonsensial, but that isn't really the definition of cohesive.

[MitGas]

I think it's safe to say that the Bonereapers are the army that divides people the most so far. Some love it and it seems like most actually don't really like them. Personally I like some visual aspects of them. The Yoshimitsu faces, the Samurai cues, the HR Giger-like design are all things I normally love but if thrown together with lots of bony plates (the big culprit) they somehow don't work for me. 

Personally I just think Morghasts suck - because they got way too many lines and other ****** on them - lots of bones for their limbs (like their legs) are okay but then don't add useless lines on their metal armor - it's too much. Their design is horrible IMO and pushing that aesthetic in there made the Bonereapers fall apart - it's a bit of a convoluted mess that is the direct opposite of what classical Undead are (on purpose obviously but less is always more). I love the Nighaunt and the Shadespire set of skeletons is awesome too. I think these new guys would've been better if they didn't make them cobbled together constructs and instead the undead remnants of a truly magnificent warrior dynasty. Or rethink their armor design.

[Overread]

I don't think they divide people the most. I think its just that they are the newest adn thus the I like/don't like comments come far more often. There are loads of people who hate Stormcast; or Wood elves; or Tyranids or Space marines or Imperial Guard. Thing is those armies had their big "I like/don'tlike" releases years, sometimes decades ago. So there's less of the focus on them. Those who don't like them just move on. 

 

Reapers are just having their day, plus without a physical release as yet there isn't as much to latch onto for fans of them. 

[TheWilddog]

34 minutes ago, Overread said:

I don't think they divide people the most. I think its just that they are the newest adn thus the I like/don't like comments come far more often. There are loads of people who hate Stormcast; or Wood elves; or Tyranids or Space marines or Imperial Guard. Thing is those armies had their big "I like/don'tlike" releases years, sometimes decades ago. So there's less of the focus on them. Those who don't like them just move on. 

 

Reapers are just having their day, plus without a physical release as yet there isn't as much to latch onto for fans of them. 

I agree.  I think that almost all of the truly new (conceptually) AOS releases have been divisive at first. The Stormcast in the very beginning were divisive in the extreme. The KO had those that loved them and those that thought they were too high tech for the setting. The Idoneth people either loved the aesthetic and went all in or hated it and passed.  I think it is just the nature of truly new armies (as opposed to those based on the expansion of existing aesthetics, like DOK or Gloomspite). 

Edited October 15, 2019 by TheWilddog