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Walrustaco

Which Faction is next on the Chopping Block?

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20 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

I think a lot of the Order legacy factions get a Firestorm on steroids treatment at some point. Dispossessed have a strong foundation in the lore and show up in novels. Not sure why so much pessimism. 

 

This was my though reading the thread- there’s almost an eagerness for them to go. Must be a Skaven plot of some kind. 

If nothing else, they’re popularity ought to give them a bit of a buffer. Their thread on the order boards is a healthy size for a non battletome army (at the time of writing it’s a similar length to DOK and KO) and there seems to be a steady stream of models appearing on painting sites/ reddit and the like. That doesn’t necessarily translate to sales, but suggests to me the kits are still shifting. 

Really any faction in the ghb is on pretty safe ground at the moment 

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We'll see what's in the new GHB, but it doesn't look good for wanderers and the other legacy aelves. The only thing GW have done with Wanderers was to make the already uncompetitive faction less competitive. And now aelves are grouped together not only under model categories but also in the faction summaries.

I very much doubt they'll scrap all those models but Swifthawk Agents, Wanderers, White Lions etc probably don't have much life expectancy as individual factions.

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About High Elves: 

 

Phoenix Temple is mentioned a lot in the Lore (Ur Phoenix, the Firestorm city of Phoenicium and so on).

Swifthawk Agents are also mentioned to have a Headquarters in Hysh and were featured in one of the Malign Portents stories.

Eldritch Council is mentioned here and there, and are also Ally to Idoneth Deepkin, a recent model line.

 

I dont recall mentions to Order Draconis (my greatest concern, Dragon Blades are my favorite model ever) and Lion Rangers, but Lion Rangers only got two models and the charriot can be assembled as a Swifthawk agent so not a huge problem there.

 

The Spire of Dawn models will be removed for sure (Seaguard, Prince on Griffon, Reavers) and possibly Swordmasters, but there is a crappy version still beeing sold so...

 

Gw would never scrap such a huge line of modern plastics, so i dont see then going anywhere. High Elves will probably be  shifted into the Hysh Elves and Dark Elves are probably going to be made part of the Uglu ones.

 

I am pretty sure Wanderers are gona be developed in an army of its own. It would need a couple heroes on foot and a behemoth for it.

 

And if all go wrong i would be totally fine with a single Bt for all Aelves if they provide a "High Elf" battleline.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/31/2019 at 1:14 PM, Warboss Gorbolg said:

Gutbusters have a current, relatively complete model line, and show up in several novels. Unless their sales are terrible, they are sticking around IMO.

I think a lot of the Order legacy factions get a Firestorm on steroids treatment at some point. Dispossessed have a strong foundation in the lore and show up in novels. Not sure why so much pessimism. 

Aelves and Free Peoples are at higher risk IMO, but again it would seem like bad business to squat Wanderers or Darkling. The old High Elves are at greatest risk IMO. A lot of the Free Peoples just look old, and the High Elf aesthetics are perhaps too fractured. Still suspect they stick around in some mega-Firestorm battletome however. It would actually support the idea that AOS realms are huge and diverse in their inhabitants.

In regards to free peoples, according to someone at my local GW shop, He let it slip that a free peoples Tome was confirmed. After this he stopped and thought it over, before saying “not exactly confirmed, the author for it confirmed he was writing fluff for it”

if someone has heard similar info or knows where it can be found that would give me hope (I have a friend wanting some imperial guard who aren’t 40k)

The He I’m referring to was the manager

Edited by TheadTheOgorSlayer
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48 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

About High Elves: 

 

Phoenix Temple is mentioned a lot in the Lore (Ur Phoenix, the Firestorm city of Phoenicium and so on).

Swifthawk Agents are also mentioned to have a Headquarters in Hysh and were featured in one of the Malign Portents stories.

Eldritch Council is mentioned here and there, and are also Ally to Idoneth Deepkin, a recent model line.

 

I dont recall mentions to Order Draconis (my greatest concern, Dragon Blades are my favorite model ever) and Lion Rangers, but Lion Rangers only got two models and the charriot can be assembled as a Swifthawk agent so not a huge problem there.

 

The Spire of Dawn models will be removed for sure (Seaguard, Prince on Griffon, Reavers) and possibly Swordmasters, but there is a crappy version still beeing sold so...

 

Gw would never scrap such a huge line of modern plastics, so i dont see then going anywhere. High Elves will probably be  shifted into the Hysh Elves and Dark Elves are probably going to be made part of the Uglu ones.

 

I am pretty sure Wanderers are gona be developed in an army of its own. It would need a couple heroes on foot and a behemoth for it.

 

And if all go wrong i would be totally fine with a single Bt for all Aelves if they provide a "High Elf" battleline.

 

I sure hope they don't scrap Order Draconis! I just put together a 2K list for them and it was such a joy to put together a low model count list that still has the potential to be (mildly) competitive.

Swifthawk Agents have a part in multiple Black Library stories but that doesn't mean anything. I'd like to see the army survive as they have such a cool aesthetic and  play style but with the Spire Of Dawn problem and no battalions, etc. they are in danger.

Wanderers are most likely to survive. They are deeply ingrained in the lore and just need a quick fix-up.

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17 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

In regards to free peoples, according to someone at my local GW shop, He let it slip that a free peoples Tome was confirmed. After this he stopped and thought it over, before saying “not exactly confirmed, the author for it confirmed he was writing fluff for it”

if someone has heard similar info or knows where it can be found that would give me hope (I have a friend wanting some imperial guard who aren’t 40k)

The He I’m referring to was the manager

He might be referring to the tweet put out by one of the GW authors that they'd sell their "insert major body organ" to write the fluff for it. I think that sort of got banded around as "confirmed details" rather fast on the rumour mill.

 

In general GW shop staff know basically the same as regular gamers; sometimes less as they are not all active online in hunting down rumours. The heads up they get on things coming is very small in advance of when players know and its likely very little advanced warning now that gamers get around 3 months warning from GW central through the community website. 

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5 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

I sure hope they don't scrap Order Draconis! I just put together a 2K list for them and it was such a joy to put together a low model count list that still has the potential to be (mildly) competitive.

Swifthawk Agents have a part in multiple Black Library stories but that doesn't mean anything. I'd like to see the army survive as they have such a cool aesthetic and  play style but with the Spire Of Dawn problem and no battalions, etc. they are in danger.

Wanderers are most likely to survive. They are deeply ingrained in the lore and just need a quick fix-up.

Swifthawks still have 2 dynamic kits and the chariot, so if they are going it will most likely be absorbed into another aelf faction. I wouldn't be suprised if they (and lion rangers) are absorbed by the wanderers as both swifthawks and wanderers are archer heavy (and share a kit) while both wanderers and lion rangers are nomadic aelves (plus swifthawk and lion rangers share a chariot kit).

I also wouldn't be suprised if they absorbed the 4 factions with dragons into one duel faction (the noble side and the less noble side) and swifthawks may be added to them.

I also wouldn't be suprised if the current 2 swifthawk dynamic kits are absorbed into hysh aelves as the lore for aelves in hysh so far have them live on flouting islands in the sky (so a flying chariot would make sense)

plus there is always the possibility of a combined aelf tome (which will probably also include the combining of subfactions)

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Posted (edited)

There are some aelf factions in  BL books:

DoK, Deepkins, Swifthawks (a lot of them, fighting as a part of Sigmar's forces like many of dispossed), Wanderers (they are independent), Dark elf corsairs (3 novells from one author).  All other aelves usually are just aelves with out much detalization.

As for free people's characters - there are a lot of them, more than Death and Destruction characters. Don't belive they can be thrown away as a playable faction. There are many scenes in different books, describing how FP regiments fights, but IMO it looks more like IG forces in wh40k than imperial army in fb. 

Edited by Uiovich

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10 hours ago, Orsino said:

I very much doubt they'll scrap all those models but Swifthawk Agents, Wanderers, White Lions etc probably don't have much life expectancy as individual factions.

I don’t really believe that the white lions, wanderers etc. Will be discontinued.

they all enjoy the privilege of beeing made out of plastic and most  if not all of them still look very good on the battlefield.

the only problem we might tremble on are the halve or 75%of the Swifthawk Agent range, since they have like almost all of their models from the blood island kit, and since Gw seemed to have no interest in keeping the skaven side alive from that boxset, I have a rather high doubt they’ll keep the Aelven units from the same box, sadly.

Swordmaster might also suffer the same kind of  fate  but than again we have models for them or better said the older swordmaster who are beeing sold so maybe they’ll stay.

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10 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Swordmaster might also suffer the same kind of  fate  but than again we have models for them or better said the older swordmaster who are beeing sold so maybe they’ll stay.

Swordmasters are one of my favorite units. I cant imagine how cool they would look if made nowadays. 

The way the Namarti have pose and movement would look awesome for Swordmasters.

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18 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

Swordmasters are one of my favorite units. I cant imagine how cool they would look if made nowadays. 

Oh the are still made just haven’t gotten any updates, and the good looking ones also only exist in the boxset sadly 2310D8F0-7F92-42F1-9882-243BC0563EFB.jpeg.548d31bb06309757e0d1525add46e8ea.jpeg

and those guys are still beeing sold, so with a bit of luck they might stay existing till the end of the world.

20 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

The way the Namarti have pose and movement would look awesome for Swordmasters.

Yeah the moving poses most new models have are fantastic.

Namarti thralls are a fantastic example for that, but my guts is telling me that we probably won’t be sawing to many or any new Aelven models for the next 1-2years after the battletome has arrived😢

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1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I don’t really believe that the white lions, wanderers etc. Will be discontinued.

they all enjoy the privilege of beeing made out of plastic and most  if not all of them still look very good on the battlefield.

the only problem we might tremble on are the halve or 75%of the Swifthawk Agent range, since they have like almost all of their models from the blood island kit, and since Gw seemed to have no interest in keeping the skaven side alive from that boxset, I have a rather high doubt they’ll keep the Aelven units from the same box, sadly.

Swordmaster might also suffer the same kind of  fate  but than again we have models for them or better said the older swordmaster who are beeing sold so maybe they’ll stay.

I'm confident at least some of the current aelf models will continue to be sold, what I'm saying is that I don't think all the current aelf factions are going to survive. They'll either get a generic aelves battletome or be folded into new Aelven factions. We might see some disapear entirely although I hope not.

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7 hours ago, Orsino said:

I'm confident at least some of the current aelf models will continue to be sold, what I'm saying is that I don't think all the current aelf factions are going to survive. They'll either get a generic aelves battletome or be folded into new Aelven factions. We might see some disapear entirely although I hope not.

I agree

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Posted (edited)

Three possibilities for Aelves.

1.) Discontinued. I think this is least likely.

2.) Consolidated (Gloomspite Gits & Skaven)

3.) Individual battletomes.

Edited by Mogwai Man

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The problem with the free peoples is similar to the Imperial Guard problem. Theres not enough kits to represent how wide and varied their forces should look and unlike 40k we dont even have descriptions or illustrations for 3rd party sites to work with. So ATM the nigh infinite sprawl of humanity across the realms is represented by....some german dudes with no shoes.

An idea I had is for GW to release a free peoples line thats insanely modular but not in the obvious way. You get a almost "skeleton" framework that you add gubbinz (on an extra frame) onto the model to make whatever "regiment" you want, GW then can do quick runs of resin frames for regiments whilst keeping the core 2 they want to focus on in the box.

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I think GW will solve Free Peoples easily. They'll just establish a "core" Free Peoples nation that represents the ordered structure of a united selection of major settlements which operate under a single overarching governing body and, as such, coordinate a united armed effort. Assuring a unified and regimented appearance and structure for their forces. Even if the skin tones of the people vary from region to region the overall arms and weapons will remain unified. 

Thus using them to represent the current greater population of humans within the Realms. Considering many Realms are only now getting back on their feat as Stormcast sweep through driving back Chaos it makes sense that many of the surviving humans would unit behind a single banner. Even in the few hundred years after the Realmgate Wars many will be drawn to the same major settlements that are under construction and then growing and developing. By the time we reach stories like Heart of Winter we've got established major cities; governments; politics and the like all running rather smooth for a coordinated central Free Peoples. 

That assures a single like of unified models that's practical for GW to achieve. Back in the days of metal GW could do more of the one-off factions for Imperial Guard because the new moulds weren't crippling in cost and they could do a short focus and run of peoples from different worlds. Right now they stick with the bulk because plastic is far more expensive to invest into and GW isn't going back to metal*. The same will be the case for the Free Peoples. Converting and perhaps the odd specialist unit/division from a notable region will be how GW pushes forward.

Plus we can't forget that GW could well introduce another human faction in time. Considering that almost every other race has two or so factions, though when one looks at the number of factions AoS already has I think it might be GW letting the dust settle for a while before they do that. The last thing they want is to burn themselves out on adding so many factions that they support the near infinite variety of AoS, but end up with so many models and lines that their sales get spread out too thin and they lack the ability to re-invest to support all lines. 

 

*metal is good, but its material cost is higher than for plastic, but worse its material cost goes up and down a lot more. So its much harder for GW to forecast a budget when their core raw material is jumping around. I figure this is also why companies like Reaper have invested heavily into their Bones line. Reaper knows a bulk of their customers are DnD/RPG gamers so a highly varied range is what they thrive on.

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Whatever happens I just want advanced notice. At least when Tomb Kings were discontinued they told us. i just about had time to grab the last few models i needed to complete my army. It was quite frustrating to see goblins just vanish. GW certainly lost out since I would certainly have bought a doomdiver if it had gone on last chance, and probably one or two other kits too.

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The problem is GW likely had a lot of TK unsold stock; since then I figure unpopular AoS lines don't have that much stock with GW right now. Heck they've had trouble keeping up the popular lines with stock. So from GW's point of view I figure they sometimes retire stuff without warning so that they don't get a surge of demand they can't supply with their current stock. 

 

Either way I wish they'd make news posts about it. It's A LOT easier to get along with a company when they are upfront that something has been removed and the reasons for why. It's not like we don't notice products vanishing.

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31 minutes ago, EccentricCircle said:

Whatever happens I just want advanced notice. At least when Tomb Kings were discontinued they told us. i just about had time to grab the last few models i needed to complete my army. It was quite frustrating to see goblins just vanish. GW certainly lost out since I would certainly have bought a doomdiver if it had gone on last chance, and probably one or two other kits too.

I feel your pain. My goblin wolf riders army army will never happen now :(

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I'll be interested to see what happens to Soulblight as a stand-alone faction since, even though they do have their own allegiance abilities, every one of their units are also fully part of the Legions of Nagash, with Legion of Blood already incentivizing the use of Blood Knights and Vampire Lords. I wouldn't want it to happen but I could see the faction disappearing and/or be absorbed into Legion of Blood to give it further identity from the other legions unless they're given a full army expansion of their own.

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I think soulblight is safe as their abilities are not in GHB, but in LoN battletome and it's not going to be replaced soon.

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4 hours ago, Luke82 said:

I feel your pain. My goblin wolf riders army army will never happen now :(

Try some Thunderwolf Calvary Wolves from the Space Wolves in 40k. You build the Wolves separately from the riders. Then put squig riders or some other type of sitting goblin on top. Run them as squigs or the spider kids. 

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I think Dispossessed are safe for a number of reasons.

First of all, a good chunk of their remaining range is pretty damn new, being the second to last army before The End TImes/AoS to get a release.  I've mentioned this before when the discussion inevitably comes up, but back then quite a few people were keen to point out how the revamped Ironbreakers and Longbeards clashed quite a bit with their impression of what Dwarf gear should look like, including the 'kind of like Space Marine' argument. If that's the case, it's possible they were an early concept of what AoS lines might later evolve into and out of WHFB's aesthetic.

The only Dwarf models that you can still buy are the new plastics, with the exception of Warriors and Thunderers... who also received a reboxing, something nothing 'Greenskin' did. I feel if GW were going to scrap Dispossessed they'd have done so when the old metal/finecast artillery and characters also went poof. With things like the Fyreslayer and Flesheater Court Battletomes there's nothing to say that lacking for units is a confirmation you won't get a book. Of course if they do receive new models then I expect the aesthetic will be much more 'AoS', similar to how the Hexwrath and Cairn Wraith's look a little out of place next to the new Nighthaunt but didn't end up on the chopping block.

They've not been too shy in mentioning them in the lore either. They've certainly not been front and centre, but then few armies without a dedicated AoS book are. That isn't the same thing as them being non-existent however. If GW was conscious of the fact they were going the way of their late 40k cousins, they'd probably make a point to inform writers and editors - Black Library, Battletomes, whatever - that they'd rather not appear what so ever. 

 

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All old elves and dispossessed are in trouble. We know GW is making new elf armies and in lore has hinted at golem men of Grungi so it seems GW is thinking outside the box for dwarves too. I doubt we’ll ever see the stereotypical dwarf/elf stuff again and as mentioned by a few that’s good. I like more creative spins on armies in AoS. These are all red flag imminent danger armies imho so prep yourselves for the news and last chances to buy. :( 

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I think that the fact that GW is pushing boundaries doesnt mean they will scrap model lines.

 

Daughters of Khaine is a good example. Winged and Snake elves along with older sculpts tied into a pretty cool army.

Dispossessed lack big models, so lets use their infantry and add a dual golem kit and a big guy, fresh and voilá, new kick ass army.

 

Same goes for elves. High/ Dark and Wanderers have all visual identities . Work new kits and roll existing ones togehter.

Quick example :

"light" aelves giving new kits with an Aerial theme. Gryphons, Eagles, new dragons and such. Most High Elves big kits are already flying units and fits with Hysh lore about floating cities.

Malerions Aelves going with monsters and deformed creatures that lurk in the shadows, giving suport to the current armies kinda like the Melusai and khinerai to the DoK.

Wanderers with Beasts and dire animals, an aspect of the hunt. Maybe a new deity they found when they felt from grace on Allarielles eyes.

 

It is completly possible to have something new side by side with the classics.

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