AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

[kenshin620]

2 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

troll hag with artefact

Ahh right! I forgot troggoths aren't normally in Gutstompas. Which is weird since Gutstompas is basically "AoS Orcs and Goblins" (literally all orruks, all grots (except gutbuster grots), and gargants)

[DmcZwerg]

7 hours ago, stato said:

So FAQ drop has changed Free Cities again, this time with a nice twist.  Free cities can now take allies!

 

 

 

So i finally can add a Branchwych to my Living City with the Summon-Wyldwood spell? 

And a Frostheart Phönix?

[Double Misfire]

Haha, thrilled that Free City armies can now take allies!

Can't wait to load up on allied heroes so I don't have to paint as many models.  

 

Here's hoping Firestorm allegiances make it onto the AoS app now they're sufficiently different to the basic Order ones.

[Thiagoma]

I am still confused about Firestorm army building rules regarding battlelines.

 

 

I have a Phoenix Temple army.  It uses Great alliance abilities since it doesnt have it own.  Lets say i wanna build a hallowheart army and mix in Order Draconis.

 

Can  i use Phoenix Guard or Dragon Blades as Battlelines? Or the BL must be from Order battlelines?

[Yoshiya]

So do the living city allegiances just get access to the entire Order list as allies? If such that's great! I'm going to have to go off and do another look over my army now for useful models to ally in...

[Yoshiya]

5 hours ago, DmcZwerg said:

So i finally can add a Branchwych to my Living City with the Summon-Wyldwood spell? 

And a Frostheart Phönix?

Allies don't get access to spells from their books because spells are part of the allegiance abilities. As far as I'm aware, the only way to get the tree summoning spell in is with the Harvestboon battalion I mentioned on the previous page.

[kenshin620]

3 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

I am still confused about Firestorm army building rules regarding battlelines.

I have a Phoenix Temple army.  It uses Great alliance abilities since it doesnt have it own.  Lets say i wanna build a hallowheart army and mix in Order Draconis.

Can  i use Phoenix Guard or Dragon Blades as Battlelines? Or the BL must be from Order battlelines?

 

I believe the common ruling is: if Faction can only take GA traits and abilities, it can be a Firestorm Allegiance as well but must abide by faction specific allies.

If Faction has specific Allegiance traits and abilities, it must choose that allegiance and not GA, thus cannot be Firestorm.

So you can't do Free People and have Greatsword battleline and use Firestorm. But armies like Phoenix Temple or Eldritch Council can take their respective battleline and also be Firestorm (but can only take allies of their respective ally list).

[stato]

12 hours ago, Double Misfire said:

Haha, thrilled that Free City armies can now take allies!

Can't wait to load up on allied heroes so I don't have to paint as many models.  

 

Here's hoping Firestorm allegiances make it onto the AoS app now they're sufficiently different to the basic Order ones.

Dont forget you still need to follow the 1 in 4 allies rule (20% points limit) so focus on those big monster allies ;0)

[flamingwalnut]

14 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

I am still confused about Firestorm army building rules regarding battlelines.

 

 

I have a Phoenix Temple army.  It uses Great alliance abilities since it doesnt have it own.  Lets say i wanna build a hallowheart army and mix in Order Draconis.

 

Can  i use Phoenix Guard or Dragon Blades as Battlelines? Or the BL must be from Order battlelines?

They really should put out a guide for it officially and have it in the FAQ section or something.

From my understanding, this works IF you keep a majority of one faction to still qualify for that faction's battleline. So, 80% Phoenix Temple, 20% Ordsr Draconis, get Battleline Phoenix Guard and toss Hallowheart on top, should be all good. Go over that ally limit either way and you need generic battleline.

[McGangsta]

Hi Team,

I'm trying to work on an Anvilgard list using the Palisade and Gravetide to pin enemy units against my anvils and be removed from implacable march.

Allegiance: Anvilgard
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (280)
- Allies
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Sorceress (100)
Sorceress (100)

10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Darkshards (100)
20 x Warriors (160)
- Axes or Hammers

20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Everblaze Comet (100)
Suffocating Gravetide (30)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000

The idea is that the comet and 2 ballista can put enough pressure on support pieces to force the enemy to advance, the vexillor gives some mobility to the 20 sequitors and allows ballista to be repositioned. Sorcerers are wrapped with darkshards for -1 to hit and sacrifice them to try and ensure the walls go off when the enemy makes contact with the sequitors or warriors  and the phoenix is a nice objective grabber or another unit to pin enemies and is very tanky with 3 spell casters.

One rule question is can allies take artefacts? Warscroll builder wouldn't let me put the shardfist pelt on my phoenix if not I would have to rethink the realm and what artefact to bring.

Thoughts and improvements welcome! 

[Yoshiya]

Regarding artefacts on allies youre not allowed in matched play which is a shame but understandable.

As for the list, it seems solid but I have some suggestions and concerns.

1) I don't think the vexillor is worth it. His teleport is nice but 20 sequitors is a huge footprint to find space for and if you're aiming for your opponent to come to you you may find it doesn't make much difference to just moving normally. I'd take a Knight-Heraldor instead. With one your sequitors can run and charge, as well as retreat and charge if necessary.

Since you want to wrap your does as much as possible, this lets you start with a wide net and pull in the outsides around the opponent. Throw in a command point and you have an 11" move and charge.

Equally important is the ability to retreat and charge however. Imagine you get into combat with a large unit and manage to wrap around the front quarter in two ranks. You successfully cast the wall behind them but realise there is just enough space for them to get away. On your turn, you retreat in such a way that the units at the side spread out around the opponent and your second rank takes their original spots. You now charge again, except this time you've closed the gapes they could have used to escape whilst also allowing the majority of the unit to attack (important with such large unit that can easily be tagged from the side).

2) your bubble wrap on the Sorceresses is quite weak and easily killed in combat. You say they are there to cast the wall but the wall is cast before movement and if you want to cast it in such a way to trap a unit they need to be pretty close to you at the end of their last turn (double turns aside). If they are close enough for that, they are likely in a position to charge your bubble wrap, likely killing them all and threatening your fragile wizards. If I was you is find some way to beef up their body guards.

3) the ballista, whilst strong at long range, are better at mid to close ranges. This means they may have the opposite effect of what you are predicting, making your opponent stay back out of their mid range shooting and firing back with their own shooters. The comet should help with this but some armies will be able to easily dispell it or just move away from it and shoot with impunity.

If you manage to position them well you may be able to funnel the opponent with them, but I have a feeling it may be better to swap them out with more bodies to tie up the enemy with and proc the anvilgard ability.

 

Hope that helps, anvilgard is probably my second favourite of the cities and it presents one of the biggest puzzles in list building. I think it's important not to build a list that relies too much on the ability because being both a random chance and making it so your opponent can run away instead means many games it may do nothing at all.

[McGangsta]

Thanks for the run down @Yoshiya some really valid points! "Puzzles in list building" certainly sums it up, making efficiency decisions and substitutions leads to me almost being better off playing stormcast with some allies but I would really like to get a nice mixed Anvilgard army to at least an almost competitive level. I've reworked it into the below;

Allegiance: Anvilgard
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)
- General
- Trait: Inspiring
- Artefact: Wand of Restoration
Sorceress (100)
Battlemage (120)
- Specialisation: Jade
- Allies

10 x Darkshards (100)
10 x Warriors (80)
- Axes or Hammers
10 x Warriors (80)
- Axes or Hammers

20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
War Hydra (180)
War Hydra (180)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Prismatic Palisade (30)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Suffocating Gravetide (30)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Heraldor is a great point being able to retreat and re-charge in a better position is going to be a real asset.
20 sequitors is just too much value at current costs to change they will be my core front line.

War hydras are there to contest the flank objectives or help hold mid against khorne, eels, or daughters with the support of a jade mage and wand of restoration.

I've dropped one unit of shards and a sorcerer and split the warriors into 2x10 to fulfill battleline these are my third wave v melee centric armies or (slowly) push the flanks behind the hydras. Sorcerer is still the primary wall caster with +2 from a sacrifice, I can't imagine anything worse than all going to plan and failing the wall cast roll.

I've kept the ballista ordinator combo for now I have just had too much value out of these and have found deploying them aggressively and creeping forward the 3" every turn they can get good use out of the rapid fire. When they get point changes or if I can't make this army work they'll be on the chopping block. They're also my only source of rend -2 or better which not having has hurt me in the past v slyvaneth and lizards.

I have gone fairly gluttonous on endless spells, if people have used the Aetherwings to any effect and found them worth 50 points I'm all ears and would drop gravetide and shackles for a flock.

[Gwendar]

Hey everyone. Been contemplating going full Wanderers Allegiance for awhile, but recently starting thinking about Living City and came up with the below. Thoughts or CC? Probably going to need to bring 2 Woods to work with, although I'm wary about only being able to summon them on a 4+. Maybe pure Wanderers would be better in the end?

Allegiance: The Living City

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
Branchwraith (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)

Battleline
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
30 x Glade Guard (360)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)

Total: 1940 / 2000

Edited December 23, 2018 by Gwendar

[Cynric]

58 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Hey everyone. Been contemplating going full Wanderers Allegiance for awhile, but recently starting thinking about Living City and came up with the below. Thoughts or CC? Probably going to need to bring 2 Woods to work with, although I'm wary about only being able to summon them on a 4+. Maybe pure Wanderers would be better in the end?

Allegiance: The Living City

Leaders
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
Branchwraith (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)

Battleline
20 x Dryads (200)
20 x Dryads (200)
30 x Glade Guard (360)

Units
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)

Total: 1940 / 2000

I have been struggling with the same problem wanting a mix of trees, wood elves and in my case eagles (or something I can proxy my old eagles as).  What I keep coming around to is if we unpack the army it always seems that the wanders dont bring much to the table that cant already be done with bow kurnoths in the case of archery or a big block of dryads in the case of the eternal guard.

If instead of living city you went sylvaneth alliance with allied wanders you would gain a free wood at the start, teleporting madness for most of your army, reduce self indicated gunshots due to woodland explosions and more spell choices.  To get there I would bring one waywatcher and  either a 20 glade guard block or 10 sisters as allies.  Change the sisters/glade guard left behind into 2 units of bow kurnoths and the second waywatcher into a branchwych/wraith.  

I really wish I could bring double the allies to make it look more like my old wood elves on the table but that's not the cards they dealt us.  400 points in wanders to a 2000 point sylvaneth army or 400 of sylvaneth to a 2000 point wander gang doesnt quite get me there.  I think grand alliance or living city could work but not so much if it was only picked from 2 factions as what is added seems so much less than what the straight allegiance provides.

[Gwendar]

@Cynric I think the biggest thing for me is keeping it as Aelven as possible, though I'm not opposed to a 50\50-ish split of them, hence what pushed me towards Living City. That way everything essentially deepstrikes in the same way as the Wanderers battalion, but without the hero phase shooting and being forced to take models I don't want. So, being under Sylvaneth and taking so few is a no-go for me. 

In terms of competitiveness, this setup seems better than running a non-battalion setup of Wanderers, although I could be wrong. That looks like this, by the way:
Allegiance: Wanderers
Waywatcher (120)
- General
Waywatcher (120)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Nomad Prince (80)
30 x Glade Guard (360)
20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)
20 x Eternal Guard (140)
20 x Eternal Guard (140)
5 x Wild Riders (120)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
- Allies
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Scythes
- Allies

Total: 1940 / 2000

So, would I rather move around 1 unit per turn (probably SotW) and run my EG onto objectives turn 1 to turtle, or try to deepstrike most of the army, get more of my shooting into range turn 1 and potentially summon woods throughout the game to turtle some Dryads onto? Not to mention the Wraith can summon more Dryads if needed and comparing Dryads to EG is rather close, even without woods nearby. Oh, let's not forget that painting Sylvaneth is easier as well, which counts in my book!

[Cynric]

Looks like fun.  Please let us know how it works out.  I wish I could run a bit more wanders as well.  I miss my old wood elf army which was Orion, a mage, 2 treemen, a block of 15 dryads, some eagles, some waywatchers, war dancers and a block or two of archers.  Let's hope for a battalion someday that puts humpty dumpty back together.

[XReN]

I really like this wholle Free Cities thing and have been theory-hammering it for quite a whille, so I want to just share a list I came up with yesterday, it's Hallowhearth and the idea is to just have some fun and make opponent deal with very tanky frontline whille throwing spells all over the table (6 casts per turn are quite good) I don't know if I ever make this list as it was just pulled from me looking up where I can get empire battlemage on pegasus for my stormcasts.

Allegiance: Hallowheart

Leaders
Archmage On Dragon (320)
- General
- Magestaff & Book of Hoeth
- Trait: Master of Defense
Archmage (100)
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Forge Key
Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (280)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Battlemage on Pegasus (160)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (360)
- War-Picks & Slingshields

Units
30 x Phoenix Guard (360)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 160 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

[McGangsta]

17 hours ago, XReN said:

I don't know if I ever make this list as it was just pulled from me looking up where I can get empire battlemage on pegasus for my stormcasts.

 

That bad boy has got to be the best compendium unit out there especially alongside a Frostheart I run 2 with 2 birds when I'm not looking to make friends.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:33 AM, Yoshiya said:

For this interested, I'm making a thread about my ongoing Living City army at the following link.

It's all Slyvaneth for now but I'll be slowly adding aelves, duardin and Stormcast in the following months.

Sneak peak of Alarielle, my most recent model.

Really nice Alarielle model, but I hope you know that she is not allowed in a Living City army as she is a named character.

[Yoshiya]

16 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

Really nice Alarielle model, but I hope you know that she is not allowed in a Living City army as she is a named character.

Thanks Yea, I know she's not allowed but my actual main army is Slyvaneth that I'm expanding into a living city army. If I want to take her I'll run a normal order army that just mixes things.

[Skreech Verminking]

On 12/20/2018 at 5:43 AM, Yoshiya said:

Regarding artefacts on allies youre not allowed in matched play which is a shame but understandable.

Wait what?

thats literally new to me, say could you maybe tell me in what faq this is standing?

i couldn’t find it anywhere.

The ghb only states that Unit’s taken as allies loose their battleline role if they had one and that an allied hero can never be the general.

Realm magic and artefacts should still be possible to take for an allied hero.

 

 

[Cynric]

31 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Wait what?

thats literally new to me, say could you maybe tell me in what faq this is standing?

i couldn’t find it anywhere.

The ghb only states that Unit’s taken as allies loose their battleline role if they had one and that an allied hero can never be the general.

Realm magic and artefacts should still be possible to take for an allied hero.

 

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding the rules, but "allies" doesnt apply to either grand alliance or free city.   The stuff they can bring in both cases is all native to what it is, so put the artifact where you wish.   The grand alliance artifacts are mostly stinkers but the mortal realms perhaps provide an attractive option 

 

Allies is for when you have a tightly focused army like "sylvaneth" with the special boons, spells, artifacts, etc.  In those cases you can have a few points/units from a slightly broader list.  

 

I would love to be able to bring 60/40 sylvaneth/wanders but it always seems like what I get is not enough to offset what is lost when compared to an 80/20 with sylvaneth allegiance.   The game seems to expect that if you are going grand alliance you are cherry picking the best units.

[Popisdead]

On 12/17/2018 at 1:22 PM, DmcZwerg said:

And a Frostheart Phönix?

You can try Winterleaf to get the Phoenix in but unless I misunderstood the explanation you wouldn't have the Living City Allegiance as the Phoenix isn't in that list.

On 12/23/2018 at 3:22 PM, Gwendar said:

20 x Sisters of the Watch (360)

Total: 1940 / 2000

Neat list.  What about a Gryphound for the Sisters?

On 12/23/2018 at 4:52 PM, Cynric said:

I have been struggling with the same problem wanting a mix of trees, wood elves and in my case eagles (or something I can proxy my old eagles as). 

If you have a Glade Lord on an Eagle what about a Knight of Xyros (spelling)?  And I think a lot of us have been wanting to add back the mix of the two.

[Gwendar]

57 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Neat list.  What about a Gryphound for the Sisters?

Gryphounds only benefit Stormcast so it wouldn't do anything with the Sisters. I think I would rather just have the 1 CP over anything else regardless.

Appreciate the list compliment though! Currently trying to build it up to use in our slow grow league starting this weekend. The combination of shooting, backfield teleport 1st turn and creating cheeky sightlines\chokeholds with woods will be fun to play with.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Gwendar

[Cynric]

3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

 

If you have a Glade Lord on an Eagle what about a Knight of Xyros (spelling)?  And I think a lot of us have been wanting to add back the mix of the two.

Which list is the knight found in? (Thanks for the reply)

Edited January 8, 2019 by Cynric