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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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Yeah i love skyborne slayers, but right now its a uphill fight against most players that i cant suprise because they know my list. Mayb with the new point changes we free up a couple of points to be a little bit better. 

Sad to see my lord celestant with judgement bomb gone. cause he was making games. Any sugestions how to run him now? Was thinking about staunch defender and mirrorshield or something protectives cause 5 wound hero aint going to survive much.

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20 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Yeah i love skyborne slayers, but right now its a uphill fight against most players that i cant suprise because they know my list. Mayb with the new point changes we free up a couple of points to be a little bit better. 

Sad to see my lord celestant with judgement bomb gone. cause he was making games. Any sugestions how to run him now? Was thinking about staunch defender and mirrorshield or something protectives cause 5 wound hero aint going to survive much.

To be honest, we can't really expect a 100 points hero to survive very long. If you can afford, an Errant Questor could to the trick ? Artifact wise, it's not really interesting to theorycraft, since the GHB will erase all of those we had in Malign sorcery. The pure SCE ones are garbage imho but I would use the armor of silvered steel if I had to. The mirror shield is nice but if you play it right, no shooting units should be able to be effective against him, especially when you combien LOS + protectors

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5 minutes ago, Maturin said:

The mirror shield is nice but if you play it right, no shooting units should be able to be effective against him, especially when you combien LOS + protectors

Too bad thats new top shooting unit have 36 range, doesnt need to have los and deals mortals on 5 and 6 XD

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Juicy said:

 

 

Staunch Defender is usually a very good trait, but its useless on the charge.  Depending on what yout play beside the Skyborne, Anvile stormhost Can bé very good. Or celestial vindicators

Edited by Maturin

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3 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Too bad thats new top shooting unit have 36 range, doesnt need to have los and deals mortals on 5 and 6 XD

Look Out Sir not Line Or Sight

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2 hours ago, Borsuk said:

Yeah, I'll take any improvement for SCE. Let's start with point reduction, and then make us demigods we supposed to be with new battletome. 

Absolutely this. They need to do for SCE what they did for space marines. One moment SM were terrible- weapons that were uninteresting and a troop unit that was unremarkable compared to any other troop unit. Now they're much closer to how they're portrayed in the narrative. Their weapons can be AP/Rend -2 on a standard unit!

When you read about stormcast, the armous is made FROM SIGMARITE ORE HARVESTED FROM THE HEART OF THE OLD WORLD THAT FLOATS ABOVE AZYR, CRAFTED BY THE DUARDIN DEMIGODS THE SIX SMITHS. THEIR WEAPONS ARE INFUSED WITH THE ENERGIES OF ONE OF THE SENTIENT STORMS OF AZYR. Hmm, what should their stat line be? 4+ save, 2 attacks 4+/3+/rend 0/1 damage, bravery 6. These guys should be incredibly powerful. 3+ save minimum. 2 attacks, 3+/3+/rend -1/1dmg minimum, bravery 8 minimum. 

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4 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Absolutely this. They need to do for SCE what they did for space marines. One moment SM were terrible- weapons that were uninteresting and a troop unit that was unremarkable compared to any other troop unit. Now they're much closer to how they're portrayed in the narrative. Their weapons can be AP/Rend -2 on a standard unit!

When you read about stormcast, the armous is made FROM SIGMARITE ORE HARVESTED FROM THE HEART OF THE OLD WORLD THAT FLOATS ABOVE AZYR, CRAFTED BY THE DUARDIN DEMIGODS THE SIX SMITHS. THEIR WEAPONS ARE INFUSED WITH THE ENERGIES OF ONE OF THE SENTIENT STORMS OF AZYR. Hmm, what should their stat line be? 4+ save, 2 attacks 4+/3+/rend 0/1 damage, bravery 6. These guys should be incredibly powerful. 3+ save minimum. 2 attacks, 3+/3+/rend -1/1dmg minimum, bravery 8 minimum. 

Yeah. We are  the storm incarnate, we will strike with all our might and inflict one wound :D

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6 minutes ago, Borsuk said:

Yeah. We are  the storm incarnate, we will strike with all our might and inflict one wound :D

Well lightning usually misses the things I wish it would hit, so sounds realistic to me 💁‍♀️

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7 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Well lightning usually misses the things I wish it would hit, so sounds realistic to me 💁‍♀️

Does it make us the most realistic army in aos? 

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What I'd really like would be for each of the Chambers to feel like they have their distinct role, but for each of the units to cover a lot of territory. As originally conceived, we can only field a few units of elite warriors, so they shouldn't be so tightly specialized.

Here are things that would make me happy:

Libs, Hunters, and Sequitors all become generic Battleline. Libs are the tanky ones, Hunters are the killy ones, and Sequitors are the adaptable ones - they don't actually need to change much.

Paladins all become more tanky and more killy, and their role makes them better in certain circumstances without weakening them in others (Decimators should still be a serious threat to a single hero, etc).  Evocators don't need to change much, they do their job well enough.

Options to make more models Battleline: Palladors, Dracothian Guard, Prosecutors, Gryph-Hounds, etc.

Obviously, buffs to warscrolls, Alliegance Abilities, etc will all be greatly appreciated.

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39 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Absolutely this. They need to do for SCE what they did for space marines. One moment SM were terrible- weapons that were uninteresting and a troop unit that was unremarkable compared to any other troop unit. Now they're much closer to how they're portrayed in the narrative. Their weapons can be AP/Rend -2 on a standard unit!

When you read about stormcast, the armous is made FROM SIGMARITE ORE HARVESTED FROM THE HEART OF THE OLD WORLD THAT FLOATS ABOVE AZYR, CRAFTED BY THE DUARDIN DEMIGODS THE SIX SMITHS. THEIR WEAPONS ARE INFUSED WITH THE ENERGIES OF ONE OF THE SENTIENT STORMS OF AZYR. Hmm, what should their stat line be? 4+ save, 2 attacks 4+/3+/rend 0/1 damage, bravery 6. These guys should be incredibly powerful. 3+ save minimum. 2 attacks, 3+/3+/rend -1/1dmg minimum, bravery 8 minimum. 

So much this.

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Posted (edited)

One issue is that a good portion of Stormcast warscrolls were written in 0 edition, and never really updated for real. They have had points adjustments, and minor tweaks here and there, but their rules were mostly written for a completely different game. A game that had no points or structure and had a 100% narrative or open focus. Its one of the reasons the Sacrosanct warscrolls stand out so much compared to their older cousins. They were written for a far more modern game state with much more interesting rules.

Many units in Legions of Nagash also suffer from this problem too.

Edited by AverageBoss
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I think the "hard" part in making SC stronger is the fact that their allegiance ability is a game-changer. Being able to just deploy anywhere on the map makes it so units start the battle already on objectives or in combat.

I get that it's easy to forget how good this is when you are used to it, but it makes it so that they cannot be compared fairly to other slow units like Mortek Guard or Ogor Ironguts.

Now surely SC could do with an update, most warscrolls are outdated and there isn't a lot of flexibility in the allegiance abilities, but I feel their design-space is limited in the fact that they have access to so many basic strengths. They need their weaknesses to keep them from being oppressive as we have seen in earlier years (hammerstrike force anyone?)

That is not to say we don't have oppressive stuff right now (looking at you flamers, horrors, salamanders and Lord K) but I feel those are outliers and mistakes rather then examples of what to strive for when discussing balance.

All in all Liberators getting a point drop is always good news and I hope some of the lesser used units like Hunters will get some drops aswell. Maybe drop some battalions too.  But from what I've seen here and in other SC topics some people just want to be the best book out there where every unit is super strong and all possible problems are covered. You cannot expect to have the best of everything in a game where every army has clear strengths and weaknesses.

And no, SC haters don't dictate GWs moves and they seem to have become the ultimate scapegoat for people to blame when discussing pretty much anything SC related. I just wish more people would look at the positive side and strengths this army has to offer.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Sedraxis said:

I think the "hard" part in making SC stronger is the fact that their allegiance ability is a game-changer. Being able to just deploy anywhere on the map makes it so units start the battle already on objectives or in combat.

I get that it's easy to forget how good this is when you are used to it, but it makes it so that they cannot be compared fairly to other slow units like Mortek Guard or Ogor Ironguts.

Now surely SC could do with an update, most warscrolls are outdated and there isn't a lot of flexibility in the allegiance abilities, but I feel their design-space is limited in the fact that they have access to so many basic strengths. They need their weaknesses to keep them from being oppressive as we have seen in earlier years (hammerstrike force anyone?)

That is not to say we don't have oppressive stuff right now (looking at you flamers, horrors, salamanders and Lord K) but I feel those are outliers and mistakes rather then examples of what to strive for when discussing balance.

All in all Liberators getting a point drop is always good news and I hope some of the lesser used units like Hunters will get some drops aswell. Maybe drop some battalions too.  But from what I've seen here and in other SC topics some people just want to be the best book out there where every unit is super strong and all possible problems are covered. You cannot expect to have the best of everything in a game where every army has clear strengths and weaknesses.

And no, SC haters don't dictate GWs moves and they seem to have become the ultimate scapegoat for people to blame when discussing pretty much anything SC related. I just wish more people would look at the positive side and strengths this army has to offer.

I agree with you to some degree, but few points are wrong imho

-Atm very few army dosnt have a deep strike/redeploy mechanic, and OBR compensate largely with 7" movement and AMAZING (if not the best) melee profiles 

-I dont want SC to be gods on earth, just the feel that they are an elite army (paladins save a 4+ with no extrasave for example PG cost 40pt less and do SO MUCH more) at the end, they are made of paper if not properly buffed and are quite pillow fisted, atm they dont absolutelly respect what they are lore wise

-Some rules are really, REALLY outdated, to prove my point even more, sacrosant chamber, the newest one, is the only that can keep on shoulder to shoulder with the newest army, full buffed sequitors with the cleasing phalanx battalion are UNSTOPABLE

Another thing that keeps us down is the fact that all the named character can only be used with hammers of sigmar, one of the most useless chamber

 

Edited by Yondaime
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I agree with Yondaime. Od course it is tempting to be the best army, but I personally aim to be on par with newer releases. For example NH (which is not in the best spot as well)  have the same deep strike like ours, but on 10+ charge automatically attacks. Retributors on paper looks good, but in reality they never was game changer for me.  1 protector can technically kill frost lord, but it's too gimmicky. SCE is cool army, with cool lore and cool models. I just like that their rules would be on par with lore, especially older, forgotten units.

It's really no fun to play my vanguards or paladins against Tzeentch and be obliterated in second turn, or get stuck in fight with 20 pink horrors for whole battle. I know, I can play other army, or better list, but then what is the purpose for the most of SCE range? Don't get me wrong. I'm not ranting, I will play them no matter what.  It would be nice to have some more fun. Isn't it what is all about? 

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15 minutes ago, Borsuk said:

 It would be nice to have some more fun. Isn't it what is all about? 

Nope, it's about you sacrificing yourself on GW's money altar 😛

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12 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Nope, it's about you sacrificing yourself on GW's money altar 😛

Sorry, my bad. Aos setting is indeed grimdark. :D

I guess that would be fitting terrain piece for SCE. 

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8 minutes ago, Borsuk said:

Sorry, my bad. Aos setting is indeed grimdark. :D

I guess that would be fitting terrain piece for SCE. 

Would make a nice terrain piece indeed for Blades of Khorne!

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1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Would make a nice terrain piece indeed for Blades of Khorne!

Or kharadron overlords. 

I feel like whole idea of creating dedicated terrain pieces, which are part of yours Allegiance ability can be summarized as money altar. No wonder that chaos destroyed old world. 

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@Sedraxis scions isn’t anywhere as good as you say imho. If the -1 to hit stayed till next BR i could agree. But now it is just a 27% gamble, if it goes well nice, else you get caught with your pants down if you don’t get the DT and your unit is dead. 
Getting on an objective mostly also only works when you start first which is also not that easy considering we usually have a lot of drops and a lot of battleplans are also not in scions favor. 

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The greatest insult is prosecutors. I have 6 of these converted and painted up with shield and javelin. They look like super human spartans with wings. In combat they are 1 attack, 4+, 4+ no rend 1 dam... serious GW? And they had three attempts at the warscroll. Three! 

 

Grimbok

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9 minutes ago, Grimbok said:

The greatest insult is prosecutors. I have 6 of these converted and painted up with shield and javelin. They look like super human spartans with wings. In combat they are 1 attack, 4+, 4+ no rend 1 dam... serious GW? And they had three attempts at the warscroll. Three! 

 

Grimbok

Don't forget they have two wounds each and slightly worse special weapons than Liberators and paladins combined. Prosecutors are real MVP 

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8 minutes ago, Grimbok said:

The greatest insult is prosecutors. I have 6 of these converted and painted up with shield and javelin. They look like super human spartans with wings. In combat they are 1 attack, 4+, 4+ no rend 1 dam... serious GW? And they had three attempts at the warscroll. Three! 

 

Grimbok

Prosecutors and Palladors are easily my favorite models in the game. Such good sculpts. With enough of a points decrease, Palladors would have a strong tactical use, even if they aren't the best in a fight.

But nothing short of a complete overhaul will make our poor angel-spartans practical on the tabletop.

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21 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Prosecutors and Palladors are easily my favorite models in the game. Such good sculpts. With enough of a points decrease, Palladors would have a strong tactical use, even if they aren't the best in a fight.

But nothing short of a complete overhaul will make our poor angel-spartans practical on the tabletop.

Maybe if they would've  cost as much as Aetherwings, they could've  become  great screen. Well, maybe 60 points, they have armor save after all :D

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25 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Prosecutors and Palladors are easily my favorite models in the game. Such good sculpts. With enough of a points decrease, Palladors would have a strong tactical use, even if they aren't the best in a fight.

But nothing short of a complete overhaul will make our poor angel-spartans practical on the tabletop.

Imho, if they are battleline, at 180pts they are fine

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