AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness / Darkoath Discussion

[rosa]

The Belac'or ability ist just imbalanced.

I think the rule is clearly Bad designed.

 

[whispersofblood]

9 minutes ago, rosa said:

The Belac'or ability ist just imbalanced.

I think the rule is clearly Bad designed.

 

You realize the rule is not new right? He's done this since day 1 of AoS.

[Overread]

He basically gets to shut down one unit for a turn, however its only one turn. Furthermore the unit only suffers from it on a dice roll - there is a chance that the dice might roll in your favour (though its weighted for the demons advantage so more times than not it should work). It's a disruption ability that only happens once. Also don't forget that they have to declare it before the opponent makes any choices in their hero phase. So they can't wait for you to start making choices and then use it - instead they've got to announce it and use it before their opponent starts to make their play.

It's strong, but I don't think its totally broken. Of course against elite armies its going to have far more of an impact. Throw it at Nagash for a turn and that will have a serious potential impact on the army.

[Overread]

9 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

You realize the rule is not new right? He's done this since day 1 of AoS.

Considering some of the day one rules gave dwarves a bonus if their player had a beard - that's not the best defence in the world for a rule

[whispersofblood]

15 minutes ago, Overread said:

Considering some of the day one rules gave dwarves a bonus if their player had a beard - that's not the best defence in the world for a rule

And yet, as far as I can see or hear it's not been taken advantage of considering you don't have to do anything besides have a bel'akor.

[Argonoch]

I have a question, more rules than anything else but a potential strong thing. With marauders they add 1 to their charge cause of the drummer and change the lowes roll to a 6. So on average they get an 11" charge, with a bloodstoker that goes up to 14".

I know in AoS you don't need to declare youre charge target before you roll so is there a restriction on charge distance? As I know in 40k you cant declare a charge on anyone more than 12" away.

[Dracan]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

Know where I can see them?

It was in the GMG review, could not see precise wording, but he did say it was for both allegiances (which might be wrong though) cant read it sadly

Edited December 9, 2019 by Dracan

[whispersofblood]

2 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

I have a question, more rules than anything else but a potential strong thing. With marauders they add 1 to their charge cause of the drummer and change the lowes roll to a 6. So on average they get an 11" charge, with a bloodstoker that goes up to 14".

I know in AoS you don't need to declare youre charge target before you roll so is there a restriction on charge distance? As I know in 40k you cant declare a charge on anyone more than 12" away.

It's the same. You can declare a charge if there is an enemy unit within 12".

[Argonoch]

20 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

It's the same. You can declare a charge if there is an enemy unit within 12".

Ah okay fair enough, would have been amazing doing 18" charges 😂

[Drib]

8 minutes ago, Argonoch said:

Ah okay fair enough, would have been amazing doing 18" charges 😂

You still can do a 18" charge, you only need an enemy unit within 12" of the charging unit.

You can even add another 3" with the Warqueens CA to a minimum of 14".

[sal4m4nd3r]

4 hours ago, Dracan said:

Quick question about the plague touched battalion. Or any of the god ones really.

Its says its for both s2d and "insert god here" alliance. It requires mortal god units.

Does this mean... i can take 7 blightking units and 1 harbinger and take them in the battalion in slaves to darkness army and everyone gains s2d keyword???!!

It must be nurgle slaves to darkness units. No rotbringers. 

[Charlo]

Is it just me or is Tzeench completely dead in this book?

Abilities are all about re-rolling saves and resisting spells. The rerolling saves is already in the book in abundance (Sorcerers, Warriors) and a 5+ ignore doesn't seem worth the power of the other marks you lose.

Feels like the God of Change has zero synergy here, especially compared to some of the silly stuff Nurgle pulls off. Even the battalion isn't great because of the high cost (NINE units + hero) and small bonus of an extra spell. I thought there might be synergy with Cabalists but doesn't seem to be there.

Am I missing something?

[Ellarr]

6 minutes ago, Charlo said:

Is it just me or is Tzeench completely dead in this book?

Abilities are all about re-rolling saves and resisting spells. The rerolling saves is already in the book in abundance (Sorcerers, Warriors) and a 5+ ignore doesn't seem worth the power of the other marks you lose.

Feels like the God of Change has zero synergy here, especially compared to some of the silly stuff Nurgle pulls off. Even the battalion isn't great because of the high cost (NINE units + hero) and small bonus of an extra spell. I thought there might be synergy with Cabalists but doesn't seem to be there.

Am I missing something?

You're not - I think sorc lords giving oracular visions seems to make tzeentch largely kind of pointless. I'd much rather run mono STD units in tzeentch allegiance

[Argonoch]

59 minutes ago, Drib said:

You still can do a 18" charge, you only need an enemy unit within 12" of the charging unit.

You can even add another 3" with the Warqueens CA to a minimum of 14".

ooh yeah didnt think about that, 19 potential charge sounds juicy...

Also with chariots, the mortal wounds that only counts the number rolled on the dice right? I wouldnt be able to roll an extra 3 dice if I whip the chariot with a blood stoker

[Charlo]

5 minutes ago, Ellarr said:

You're not - I think sorc lords giving oracular visions seems to make tzeentch largely kind of pointless. I'd much rather run mono STD units in tzeentch allegiance

Yeah. My only line of thought is that with a new Tzeench book on the way they had to hold back stuff or couldn't really commit to an idea.

[ZLee Syn]

Are there some restriction when chosing legions? And if so which? 

[SamSam]

So no return for the Hellcannon then?

kinda hoped I’d be able to dust them off and be smash Nagash down a level or 2 before jumping in! 😔

[annarborhawk]

Did some quick math for unit of 3x Varanguard.

 

Assuming: 1) Archaon on board and general and in his 18" aura; 2) Mark of Khorne; 3) 6th Circle; and 4) On charge:

Ensorcelled  weapons: 2+ save=9.5 wounds; 3+ save=14.5 wounds; 4+ save=19.5 wounds; 5+ save=24 wounds; 6+save=29 wounds

Fellspears                        : 2+ save=11 wounds; 3+ save=14.5 wounds;  4+save=18 wounds; 5+save=22 wounds; 6+save=22 wounds

Daemonforge Blades : 2+save= 9 wounds; 3+save=12.5 wounds; 4+save=16 wounds; 5+save=20 wounds; 6+save=23 wounds

 

Obviously, ensorcelled are even better choice when not on the charge, as Fellspears lose a rend and lose +1 to wound. So Ensorcelled seem the clear choice now.

I suppose the best argument for Fellspears would be they are slightly better against very hard targets, and the 2" range could come in handy for the once-a-game second pile in and attack.   

Without Archaon, I'm not sure they warrant the 300 pts. I see them as basically being solely used for ultra-elite Archaon lists.

And holy hell, if 3-4 units get a charge in, will it be glorious!  

Edited December 9, 2019 by annarborhawk

[SamSam]

Soooo no return for the Hellcannon then? 😔

Kinda dissapointed, would love to pull them out again and snipe Nagash from afar. 

[Grimrock]

Just hoping to clear something up because I've seen a few people mention warshrine prayers. I've been through the warscroll a few times in the app and I don't see any requirements on the shrine's mark for what prayer it can utter. So a khorne marked shrine can still use the undivided prayer right? The only thing I can see that cares about the mark is for the target unit. 

[Ellarr]

10 minutes ago, annarborhawk said:

Did some quick math for unit of 3x Varanguard.

 

Assuming: 1) Archaon on board and general and in his 18" aura; 2) Mark of Khorne; 3) 6th Circle; and 4) On charge:

Ensorcelled  weapons: 2+ save=9.5 wounds; 3+ save=14.5 wounds; 4+ save=19.5 wounds; 5+ save=24 wounds; 6+save=29 wounds

Fellspears                        : 2+ save=11 wounds; 3+ save=14.5 wounds;  4+save=18 wounds; 5+save=22 wounds; 6+save=22 wounds

Daemonforge Blades : 2+save= 9 wounds; 3+save=12.5 wounds; 4+save=16 wounds; 5+save=20 wounds; 6+save=23 wounds

 

Obviously, ensorcelled are even better choice when not on the charge, as Fellspears lose a rend and lose +1 to wound. So Ensorcelled seem the clear choice now.

I suppose the best argument for Fellspears would be they are slightly better against very hard targets, and the 2" range could come in handy for the once-a-game second pile in and attack.   

Without Archaon, I'm not sure they warrant the 300 pts. I see them as basically being solely used for ultra-elite Archaon lists.

And holy hell, if 3-4 units get a charge in, will it be glorious!  

Do you mind doing the math on 3x Varanguard under same conditions but with mark of nurgle and daemonic power instead?

So reroll hits, wounds and 6s to wound +1 damage

[Overread]

9 minutes ago, SamSam said:

Soooo no return for the Hellcannon then? 😔

Kinda dissapointed, would love to pull them out again and snipe Nagash from afar. 

Artillery in general is just missing from AoS for a LOT of armies. Makes me wonder if its going t obe something that gets released in bits for each army as part of some major campaign expansion or such. 

[themortalgod]

Is anyone else pretty bummed about the Slaves stuff? I've been looking really hard to see a silver lining. I put my cities list on hold when I heard the StD book was coming, but no matter how I look at it, it feels like this isn't a ton of improvement over what we have now.

Yeah we get some allegiance abilities, but they aren't nearly as powerful as allegiance abilities of other armies.

Sure some of our units got a small buff to their warscroll, but also came with pts hikes and loss of max unit discounts so it feels like  side-grade on units that were already at the bottom of the power curve.  Not to mention being the only army that now doesn't get max unit discounts..

I just don't see anything this army is actually good at? It doesn't hit hard. Its magic is pretty weak. It has virtually no shooting. It is pretty slow. It is a bit tanky, but relative to the cost per wound, it isn't impressively tanky either.

Be'Lakor certainly is good. Sorcerers are awesome for their cost. (looking like really good candidates as allies in other Chaos armies) But other than that, I just don't see much opportunity here to climb to a better position. 



 

Edited December 9, 2019 by themortalgod

[Charlo]

I think the book is solid. The allegiance abilities are very wide as really the main one is hero auras then you choose which path you go down out of the others. 

[themortalgod]

9 minutes ago, Charlo said:

I think the book is solid. The allegiance abilities are very wide as really the main one is hero auras then you choose which path you go down out of the others. 

Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong? 

- We get some aura abilities that are really lackluster and are the sort of auras that other armies get baseline, not as their main allegiance mechanic or if it is, it is baseline static, not hero dependent.

- We get a ridiculously random and situational  Eye of the Gods table which is going to be irrelevant 90% of the time. (just as it has always been in 40k as well)

thats it for main faction allegiance abilities...

Then for sub faction we get the following choices:

- Low volume summoning with heavy restriction.

- The ability to make terrain LOS blocking and tougher Daemon Princes.  (Against some armies, on some tables, awesome, the rest of the time completely irrelevant)

- A much worse version of Hallowheart magical boost. 

- Archaon

Nothing above even remotely stands out to me as on the same level of what armies like Cities, Hedonites, Deepking, Daughters, Fyreslayers, etc get and that is before even considering that we are paying premium prices for slow units with relatively low impact.