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181 Celestant-Prime

About themortalgod

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    Lord Castellant

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  1. Personally, I'd expect them to be something similar to the new Keeper of Secrets but smaller. Bestial head, very androgynous body.
  2. Personally, I feel a lot more armies can deal with ~20 wounds -> opportunity to take action -> then if fail take another ~20 wounds than ones that have to take that ~40 wounds from a single unit with no chance to respond. Also, that loss of staunch defender is far more of a weakness when your opponent actually has units that reach your line. Even such though, power aside, even when the game doesn't go one-sided, I still don't enjoy not really taking part in the game for two turns in a row so even best case where the double turn isn't adversely impacting game balance it is still leading to a negative play experience.
  3. Correct, and a max size unit of Raptors with Longstrike crossbows that get to shoot twice per turn. That unit shooting 4 times in a row tends to do the most damage. It is pretty common for them to pump out 40+ wounds on their own during a double turn. It is a 500pt unit but that is still a lot of damage coming from a unit with 30" range. He also sometimes allies in Drycha if he feels he is likely to face giant horde units. In our last game drycha killed about 60 models during the double turn herself. (For those who don't know, she has a shooting attack where you roll a D6 for each model in an enemy unit within 10", every 3+ is a MW. 50% of the time, she gets to re-roll 1s for that). Thus on average, a 40 model unit turns into a 4 man unit from a single shooting phase from her. I mainly play Slaanesh and Tomb Kings. When up against my Slaanesh, he knows how fast I can move and just deploys slightly out of my longest potential charge on turn 1. (which is usually well within range of his shooting). Thus the earliest I can threaten him is on my turn 2. He makes a point of sending MWs at my heroes to deny me depravity while the normal shooting attacks go into all my units which fold like paper. For Tomb Kings (I know they are pretty weak relatively speaking), he knows my only real threat that can quickly threaten him are necro knights so he just focuses them down first and then starts picking away at everything else which he knows will take at least a turn or two to get through his battleline which forms a nice chaffe line. Now one weakness he has is that his drop count isn't super low. Unfortunately, though, neither of my armies have access to much in the way of battalions right now. I think the Slaanesh book will change a lot for me. That said, even when he is forced to go first, it isn't game breaking for him, he just doesn't get the opportunity to auto-win with a double turn.
  4. For sure, he is certainly a clever player. And I think the army would do just fine without the double turn. He is very aware that his army composition leads to this situation: 1. If he wins the priority role on the first turn, in many cases he simply wins as most opponents can't stand up to two turns of his firepower with enough strength to threaten him. 2. If he loses the priority role he isn't in a bad position but he now has to work for the win. (Though he also knows if he ever goes up against Sylvaneth he is going to just lose which is why I think these sorts of armies don't see frequent tournament play) Another example is a Seraphon player we have who maxes out on razordons and salamanders along with the thunderquake starhost. He uses a slaan to give them all flying and boosts movement with cogs. If he double turns you, your army is taking a gargantuan amount of fire and when you get your turn back you have a giant wall of skinks standing between your army and his firepower. That one is generally less powerful than the SCE one but as a Daemon and Death player the fact that so much Seraphon stuff gets big damage buffs against my armies it often feels like a harder match up. I've had game with him where I lose almost 2000pts in the turn 1 double turn.
  5. I played fantasy for 20 years. I never once felt that turn by turn was a problem. There were times I felt certain armies could alpha strike too powerfully but the solution to that was tuning the alpha strike, not introducing a mechanic that flips the problem in a much worse way. The double turn was the first time where I encountered games where I felt that I was losing (or in other cases winning) simply because of a priority roll which allowed one of the armies to blow their opponent off the board.
  6. Fair, though, even lots of terrain can work against us. There is one guy in my meta who runs a SCE gunline supported by those trumpeter heroes that spam mortal wounds onto anything near a terrain piece. His strategy is basically gun anything down that is in the open and blast anything hiding behind terrain with mortal wounds.
  7. Because a double turn can create a situation where a shooting army destroys almost my entire army before I can respond whereas incrementally I have a chance to act before my army is blown to pieces.
  8. Most armies in my meta either shoot you or beta strike you so hard with a double turn that no one ever wants first turn. I'd say at least 20% of the games I play end after a turn 1 double turn where one player just gets obliterated. In my last 5 games, it has happened 3 times. I don't find it exciting at all to show up to a game, set my army up, have an uneventful first turn, then spend the next hour taking my models off the board, then pack up and go home.
  9. Most armies in AoS can't alpha strike that hard. Alpha Strike is more of a 40k problem where most weapons are in range turn 1. The vast majority of armies in AoS don't actually do much on turn 1 and even such. I've been playing Warhammer (40k and WHFB and now AoS) for almost 25 years. I have never once felt alpha strike was as destructive as the double turn has been consistently in my experience. Not to say powerful alpha strikes are not a problem but double turns feel like solving a minor problem with a major problem. Its like letting a tiger loose in your house to kill a mouse. That said, the double turn issue is only magnified further due to the choice to go first. If going first was a fair roll off then each player has to deploy with the potential of either going first or second but when one player can deploy knowing they will be going second that already gives a huge advantage even if they don't get the double turn. Its like lighting your house on fire (double turn), then tossing a grenade in for good measure. (lower drop choose turn order) Side note: I do feel teleport mechanics are far too common in AoS which contributes to alpha strike problems and can often mitigate or completely offset the tactics of movement and deployment. I'd argue a BETTER solution to alpha strike would be giving the player who is going second a "pre game" turn where they can't move or do anything offensive but can cast buffs and defensive spells and use command abilities. This would represent armies showing up to a battle already buffed and would help mitigate alpha strikes by making you less vulnerable)
  10. So basically what you are saying is don't choose army based on what you like or what playstyle attracts you. Instead, specifically, choose one of very few armies which can 1 drop because of a horrible mechanic which creates bad play experiences? That only shows how bad of a mechanic it is. It isn't a solution.
  11. I voted strongly against the double turn. I have hated the mechanic since the beginning of AoS. It almost was the sole reason for me walking away from the game. I've had so many games utterly ruined by a double turn that I just can't see if favorably. Yeah, I get there are some tactical things you can do to mitigate it but some armies are able to do so much easier than others. For example, a slow-moving army vs a low drop gunline. If that gunline double turns early it will blow the slow-moving army off the table before anything happens. I've had so many games where I have a 5min first turn, then I watch for the next hour while my entire army melts away. I had one game this week where my Tomb Kings lost 1600pts before I had my second turn. I had yet to kill a single enemy model because everything was out of range on my turn 1. I get that TKs are pretty weak relatively speaking, but I could have swapped out for my Slaanesh and the exact same thing would have happened. He knows he has fewer drops so just deploys to ensure I can't threaten turn 1, then proceeds to overwhelm with firepower. If he gets the double turn, great, he just wins. If he doesn't, he is still in a great position. Priority roll offers the opportunity for tactics, I agree, but in its current form, it is a source of "feels bad" moments and doesn't really solve any problems.
  12. In most situations, 3D6 charge is more valuable than a 5+ MW save but it really depends on your meta, if you face lots of MWs often then perhaps the armor is better. As for the weapon, statistically, the halberd is almost always better. Against a 5+ save with no buffs or debuffs Halberds do ~4.0 damage while Swords do ~3.7 damage. (Which is close, but the halberd still edges the swords and has longer reach). As you move towards better saves the halberds outpace swords even more. (say a 3+ save with mystic shield). Furthermore, if you are running GHoN the value of +1 halberd attack is higher than +1 sword attack so that widens the gap even more. The only argument for swords is that outside of GHoN they can potentially do more damage (10 total vs 9), swords also edge out halberds against a 6+ save or no save as the -2 rend is wasted (~4.4 vs ~4.0 and only outside of GHoN). Overall though, in most situations, halberds are better and in my opinion, they are also way cooler so it is a no brainer for me.
  13. Disciples of Tzeentch currently have ~30 different warscrolls (not counting StD stuff that can have Tz keyword) A Daemons only Slaanesh based on only the stuff revealed so far would be ~20 different warscrolls. (Though, even at that, that number is inflated because of all the chariot variants which are all essentially the same thing just slightly different) This either suggests more stuff is coming, or that Slaanesh will be smaller than the other gods in terms of release size.
  14. themortalgod

    Where next?

    This is not true. It was people completely misunderstanding what GW said. GW didn't say each Grand Alliance was getting a new "grand alliance" book. They said that there would be new battletomes for factions in each grand alliance.
  15. Just as a heads up, pure daemon Tzeentch is not very strong right now. Horrors, Flamers, Exalted Flamers, Screamers, and Chariots are all overcosted for what they bring. On top of that the Lord of Change is essentially 380pts to cast 2 spells per turn so is also overcosted, at least in my opinion. If you like Tzeentch I'd either wait for a new book or focus on the mortal side which is quite strong right now.
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