Agent of Chaos Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Whip the Skullreapers with a bloodstoker to give reroll wound rolls of 1. Almost as if they were meant to go together! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksteve Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 20 minutes ago, Kharneth said: So, if Skullreapers are benefitting from +1 to wound they cannot inflict mortal wounds on themselves? Their natural 1s will fail but not count as 1s? I understand that adding modifiers to 6+ abilities has an effect, but the Skullreaper ability says they take a mortal wound on the roll of a 1 to wound but does not specify natural or not. Correct. With a +1 net modifer on the roll they will never have a 1 after the modifiers are applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 56 minutes ago, Kharneth said: Natural 1s always fail and anything that becomes a 1 after modifiers (such as a 2 with a -1) will also fail. See, that’s what I thought - I had natural “6”s for Bloodletters for mortal wounds... I had a -1 to hit for something - opponent said the natural 6s became 5s - (still hit) no mortal wounds though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Im pretty sure thats right, but if you had any +1 hit modifiers then it would go back the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamik Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 On 11/14/2018 at 1:18 PM, Dan.Ford said: Dark Feast 200! , 140 maybe SO MUCH AGREE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Yea its a 1.0 style of rules that positive and negative modifiers can impact particular effects. This has changed with 2.0 style rules, for example Frightful Touch on Nighthaunt only trigger on a natural 6 roll, no matter the positive or negative modifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastercrafted Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 So i'm gonna give gore pilgrims a try for the first time, see if its worth the points. Come up with this - any suggestions for artefacts and command abilities? Allegiance: KhorneBloodsecrator (140)Bloodstoker (80)Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzySlaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)- Blood Blessing: Killing FrenzyLord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)5 x Blood Warriors (100)- Goreaxe & Gorefist5 x Blood Warriors (100)- Goreaxe & Gorefist30 x Bloodletters (320)10 x Bloodreavers (70)- Reaver Blades10 x Bloodreavers (70)- Reaver BladesSoul Grinder (260)Gore Pilgrims (200)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 130 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, mastercrafted said: So i'm gonna give gore pilgrims a try for the first time, see if its worth the points. Come up with this - any suggestions for artefacts and command abilities? Cool list mate. My humble suggestions: Trait: Either Immense Power on the Thirster or Violent Urgency on the Juggerlord (this works for Daemons and Mortals). Artefacts: Brazen Rune on the Secrator if you're gonna face magic. Ghyrstrike or Blade of Anraheir on the Juggerlord, OR there's a bunch of stuff that works well on a Thirster: Doppelganger Cloak, Ghyrstrike, Ignax's Scales, Gryph-feather Charm, Aetherquartz Brooch... it's hard to pick one without knowing your style of play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Back to the forthcoming 2019 Genetals Handbook - can we generate a Dedicated BoK Community driven thread dedicated to good, reasonable and fair fixes, or rules restatements (errata) to recommend as a community? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andysonic1 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I don;t have anything to add, I'll refer to my original reply with another user's point changes. Mortals across the board are fine (Blood Warriors and Khorgoraths I could see getting a 10 point reduction each but they don't really need it). Daemons need adjusting to the same levels our blue and green friends got which will make them cheaper and better overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Right, but would like to see a place to put all the ideas togetherin one spot with the Community recommendations together in a sticky first posr. Also, for what it’s worth we could make a “petition” of the ideas in the thread to present to GW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Daemon wise really other than bloodcrushers and skullcannons, not sure what other points could be adjusted. Everything else would need some warscroll changes like the lack of Herald command abilities (but I'm not sure if that'll change since no other heralds have command abilities. But surely at least the Blood Throne can get one! but then I guess the arguments would also have to be made about the Tzeentch Herald on a Burning Chariot) Unless khorne daemons are getting Warscroll updates for the khorne slaanesh box. If bloodcrushers just got one more sword attack, would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 18 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: Whip the Skullreapers with a bloodstoker to give reroll wound rolls of 1. Almost as if they were meant to go together! For sure, I saw that combination and can tell it's really effective. The problem I'm having is I really like Skullreapers. I have 10 and plan on using them as two units of 5. I can't fit another bloodstoker into my list and I'm worried about being unable to buff both units during the same turn. I've toyed with the idea of using them as a unit of 10; it'd be easier for buffs and slightly weaker for blood tithe (though these are not units that I want to have die, at least til the end), but units of 5 are much more flexible and much less threatening to the enemy. I've been able to find 3 solutions to the Skullreapers: Bloodstoker, Juggerlord, and Mark of the Slayer. The latter two can only be used on the charge, but I'm hoping they'll score 10 kills on the charge and then reroll to wound from then on out. Bloodstokers can only benefit a single unit, so I'd need a 1:1 ratio, which is rough with all the awesome heroes. The Mark of the Slayer requires 8" range and also provides reroll 1 to hit, which is redundant with the skullreapers who already have that and the blood warriors, too. The Juggerlord's ability can be used on up to 3 skullreaper units within 24" as well as himself, which leaves a lot of room. And, since it isn't a reroll 1s to wound, but a +1, it completely negates the chance of self-harm, and it gives a lot of my units 2+ to wound. This is the 2,000 point list I've been working on. 200 - Gore Pilgrims 140 - Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut - Slaughterborn, Gorecleaver 140 - Bloodsecrator 100 - Slaughterpriest - Killing Frenzy 100 - Slaughterpriest - Killing Frenzy 80 - Exalted Deathbringer - Impaling Spear (or Bloodstoker) 80 - Aspiring Deathbringer 200 - 10 Blood Warriors - Goreaxes, Goreglaive, Icon 200 - 10 Blood Warriors - Goreaxes, Goreglaive, Icon 70 - 10 Bloodreavers - Meatripper Axes, FC 70 - 10 Bloodreavers - Meatripper Axes, FC 280 - 6 Skullcrushers - Bloodglaives, FC 170 - 5 Skullreapers - Daemonweapons, Soultearer, Icon 170 - 5 Skullreapers - Daemonweapons, Soultearer, Icon This list was originally 1930 points with only a single Bloodreaver unit and 1 of the Slaughterpriests had Blood Sacrifice. I thought it might be nice to have a constant flow of 1 blood tithe each turn to assist whatever was gained. I'm not sure if that'll be worth it, and I don't really want Bloodreavers, but I thought it might be useful to have some fodder running around. I'm not sure what to do with the heroes, the Exalted Deathbringer isn't doing anything except being an awesome, killy character, but when I have the Bloodstoker I'm not sure what to do with him. Maybe I'm underestimating the usefulness of a pocket +3" charge. I could remove a unit of bloodreavers, improve the aspiring deathbringer, and replace the exalted deathbringer for another slaughterpriest with killing frenzy, I just don't want to spam slaughterpriests. I could remove a unit of Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers and still retain my battleline minimum and gore pilgrim parameters, which would give me a lot of points to play with, but I don't know of any non-hero choices I'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 18 hours ago, Coyote said: See, that’s what I thought - I had natural “6”s for Bloodletters for mortal wounds... I had a -1 to hit for something - opponent said the natural 6s became 5s - (still hit) no mortal wounds though. That's correct. If you look at the Gorecleaver under Murderous Artefacts, it says "any wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon," and compare it to the Bloodletter's ability "If the hit roll for a Hellblade is 6 or more." Whenever it says "6+" or "6 or more" that indicates that it's effected by modifiers, so any negative modifier makes rolling a 6+ impossible, however, positive modifiers can make it effectively a 5+ or 4+ or better. When it just says "6" that means it is unaffected by modifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastercrafted Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 @Roark thanks for the suggestions. Gonna keep to the khorne battletome. Don't have much of a playstyle tbh, still figuring out what to do with BoK. Been mostly running IR thirster with slaughterborn and Mark of the slayer or juggerlord with blade of endless bloodshed. New list is built around having fun with the soul grinder, but i'm torn on the prayers - killing frenzy or bronzed flesh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phizzco Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Kharneth said: That's correct. If you look at the Gorecleaver under Murderous Artefacts, it says "any wound rolls of 6 made with this weapon," and compare it to the Bloodletter's ability "If the hit roll for a Hellblade is 6 or more." Whenever it says "6+" or "6 or more" that indicates that it's effected by modifiers, so any negative modifier makes rolling a 6+ impossible, however, positive modifiers can make it effectively a 5+ or 4+ or better. When it just says "6" that means it is unaffected by modifiers. Does all this talk mean that letters cant mortal wound on 5s and 4a with KF anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharneth Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, phizzco said: Does all this talk mean that letters cant mortal wound on 5s and 4a with KF anymore? No, they can. Anything that only happens on a 6 will not be helped by KF, but Bloodletters say 6+. There are some things that are 6 only and not 6+, but they are uncommon. If Bloodletters have a net modifier of negative anything, their mortal wound effect will be negated, which is what happened to Coyote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 3 hours ago, mastercrafted said: @Roark thanks for the suggestions. Gonna keep to the khorne battletome. Don't have much of a playstyle tbh, still figuring out what to do with BoK. Been mostly running IR thirster with slaughterborn and Mark of the slayer or juggerlord with blade of endless bloodshed. New list is built around having fun with the soul grinder, but i'm torn on the prayers - killing frenzy or bronzed flesh? OK then I would suggest maybe Violent Urgency (Juggerlord general), Brazen Rune (Secrator) and Deathdealer (WoK Thirster). Until AoS2.0, Gorecleaver was a no-brainer for the Juggerlord, but RAW now it only activates on a natural 6 (or a natural 5 with his command ability) which is... annoying. Although it's probably tempting to just armour-up your big monster, I'd say you need at least one Killing Frenzy to capitalise on your Letterbomb investment... That's just me though. Hope you get some opportunities to try different Prayer combos. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Kharneth said: No, they can. Anything that only happens on a 6 will not be helped by KF, but Bloodletters say 6+. There are some things that are 6 only and not 6+, but they are uncommon. If Bloodletters have a net modifier of negative anything, their mortal wound effect will be negated, which is what happened to Coyote. And I get that, no complaints about rules as written. My opponent is actually really really cool and one of the smartest players in the group. What I *wish * though is - the Bloodletters only have a couple things going for them - one of which is the Mortal Wound (just like the old Killing Blow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangaramb Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Does "Mark of the Destroyer" work on Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage ? It should double it's attacks to 8 (9 with Bloodsecrator), add a few +1 to hit to that and you should get quite a lot of mortal wounds. I think now FAQ allows any Heroes to equip Trophies of War, not only Bloodbound, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, mangaramb said: Does "Mark of the Destroyer" work on Bloodthirster Of Insensate Rage ? It should double it's attacks to 8 (9 with Bloodsecrator), add a few +1 to hit to that and you should get quite a lot of mortal wounds. I think now FAQ allows any Heroes to equip Trophies of War, not only Bloodbound, right? As awesome as that would be, mark of the destroyer is limited to khorne bloodbound heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.Ford Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) On 11/16/2018 at 4:38 PM, Kharneth said: When it just says "6" that means it is unaffected by modifiers. I'm sorry to say this is incorrect. It must state that natural 6 or unmodified 6. If you play at an GW event an ability that is triggered by a 6 is subjected to mod's . so for example Crimson Crown with a +2 to hit would only trigger on a 4 and 5&6 are only normal hit and do not trigger the ability . This not my interpretation , it's from GW rules panel. Edited November 18, 2018 by Dan.Ford Added more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoVonUtopia Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I just played in a small local tournament using Skalok (the new forge world dragon) and I am very pleased how it went even though I didn't win a single game which I expected since i figured i couldn't play to objectives very well. My list idea was to buff and support Skalok while having an independent battle line so my list was: Skalok 2 slaughterpriests with killing frenzy and resangunation Bloodstoker 5 Wrathmongers 3x5 Blood warriors. Game 1 was battle of the pass vs Daughters of Khaine. The first few turns we approached each other cautiously to but the Daughter's superior mobility ment that they got the middle objectives first and got the first charges. My blood warriors all died but they protected Skalok and the wrathmongers who were able to decimate the enemy's army in later turns. Skalock only took 2 wounds because she killed any unit she attacked. Game 2 vs ironjaws went the same way, a turn 1 charge killed all of my screening blood warriors but I then tabled my opponent with Skalok killing a mega war boss on mawcrusha and one on foot, 5 brutes, and around 30 'ard boys. But due to low model count my opponent won off points. Game 3 vs Nurgle I decided to be stupid and charge Skalok into my opponent's army first instead of fighting behind blood warriors and wrathmongers. Needless to say, she died in 3 combat rounds to 10 blightkings in a plague cist and 10 chaos warriors supported by a harbinger of decay. I learned that Skalok didnt need much buffing support and I really needed more bodies. Next time I'll try a bloodsecrator and as many bloodreavers as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke1705 Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Dan.Ford said: I'm sorry to say this is incorrect. It must state that natural 6 or unmodified 6. If you play at an GW event an ability that is triggered by a 6 is subjected to mod's . so for example Crimson Crown with a +2 to hit would only trigger on a 4 and 5&6 are only normal hit and do not trigger the ability . This not my interpretation , it's from GW rules panel. Do you have a rules source for why the Flowstone Blade works to increase all of the wound rolls and not just the wound roll for the attack that rolled a 6 or more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 4:54 AM, phizzco said: I dont know anyone that plays that or firestorm currently. I play firestorm 😂 I used a Khorgi in Skirmish. It was pretty brutal. Especially with the bloodstoker making him race across the board to pulp enemies 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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