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Kharneth

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Everything posted by Kharneth

  1. Beautiful! I knew 0 was up to 8. So I could even keep my pendulum stationary and as long as I left my pink horrors within an inch of it the previous turn they'd take damage
  2. Personally I'd stick with 1, but if he's buying 2 I'd build a Burning Chariot and a Herald on Burning Chariot. Then I'd build a Herald on Disc and an Exalted Flamer. I'd start with a list that included 2x10 Pink Horrors and a unit of 3 Flamers. These aren't competitive decisions. They are choices designed to give a beginner a variety of options. It would be smart to have a wizard stay near the pink horrors. The herald on foot has a better spell than the one on the disc, but the one on the disc is more useful for summoning, which daemons are good at. Your friend won't be doing much summoning with the get started box, but if he's interested in daemons of Tzeentch he'll likely get into summoning down the line and will appreciate a Herald on Disc. I've heard bad things about the chariot, but if he's going to have 2 I'd make one of each. The Exalted Flamer is a good cheap summonable option, especially when all 6 Flamers are already being used in a list. I haven't heard good things about Screamers, either but they're only 10 fate points or 100 points so make for a good summonable unit or filler unit. 140 - Herald on Disc - This guy's spell is more reliable to cast than the Herald on Foot. Plus the disc's movement is awesome and adds a good punch in melee, which can happen. 400 - 2x10 Pink Horrors. These guys are best with a supplement of Blue/Brimstone Horrors and predatory endless spells so they can be sacrificed. 160 - 3 Flamers. These guys are a little more expensive than they're worth, but provide excellent mobile firepower. Pro-tip, your friend can direct each flamer to target a different unit to spread the capricious flame rule dealing mortal wounds on a 4+ to each unit that was wounded by their shooting attack. In short, the Pink Horrors, Herald, and Flamers are the most useful aspects of the box and I'd recommend starting with them. In terms of spells, he'll only have access to the Lore of Daemons. Bolt of Tzeentch > Unchecked Mutation > Tzeentch Firestorm. Treason of Tzeentch is all right against hordes, but there are better options (Gaunt Summoner). Arcane Transformation can be useful, but probably not with the units your friend will have. Fold Reality is a very useful spell that can be used on the Pink Horrors or the Flamers. My go-to artefact has become the Gryph-Feather Charm as it provides -1 to be hit by attacks, which is pretty much always useful. I put it on my most valued caster. As for command traits, Arch-sorcerer is good, Magical Supremacy is good, and Incorporeal Form is good. I'd recommend your friend uses Arch-sorcerer to begin with as that'll give him access to extra spells so he can experiment with their uses. Incorporeal Form helps protect the caster and Magical Supremacy helps shut down enemy spell casting, but it's useful to experience what it's like without these bonuses first so that you can appreciate their effect when you take them. Anyway, the best part about fun and casual games is that you and your friend get to learn what is effective against each other as you play. I find a lot of meta-solutions don't work against my friends because they don't always make the smartest decisions and their foolish choices sometimes mess up my plans.
  3. Yeah. I'd be surprised if anyone finds someone who contests this, but in such a case I'd feel like they were being very unfriendly to refuse to interpret "wiped out" as counting as slain. I'd lose those blue horror points that game and refuse any future games with the player. Or in a tournament let the TO decide, but anyone whose played previous editions of Warhammer would be familiar with that phrase. If this isn't good enough, you can email GW and get a rules answer from them.
  4. Technically you don't even need X as you'll simply get 2Y Blue Horror points if Y is slain Pink Horrors.
  5. You're right. Slain is defined as when a model is brought to 0 wounds. Therefore Fold Reality does not slay anything as "wiped out" has no definition. Therefore, when a 1 is rolled for Fold Reality nothing happens. "On a roll of a 1, the unit is wiped out!" might as well say "On a roll of 1, the unit is spaghetti!"
  6. That is untrue. We are obligated to play by the rules whether it is to our benefit or not. The idea that it is our responsibility to prove a ruling merely because it is for our benefit is ridiculous. The word "slain" is not the only word that can be used. It is not a keyword. Words have synonyms. There is no confusion in regards to what "wiped out" means. It's foolish of GW to use slang in their writing, but the phrase "wiped out" in this context is not ambiguous. "Wiped out" is a common phrase used in Warhammer to describe a unit whose remaining models are slain at all once.
  7. Someone please explain what other meanings the sentence "On a roll of 1, the unit is wiped out!" has. It is not ambiguous. The wording is perfectly clear, the only issue is that it isn't using the words that you want it to use. They don't use the word "slain," but there is no other interpretation of what "wiped out" means other than the entire unit is destroyed, which means every remaining model in the unit is destroyed.
  8. That's what wiped out means. In order for them to mean anything else they'd have to specify like "the unit is removed from the table but does not count as destroyed." Given the idea of what Fold Reality is doing, it's possible the unit is not destroyed but simply is relocated but the wording of the rules makes it clear that the models in the unit die and aren't merely relocated.
  9. Just to clarify, Pink and Blue Horrors do not generate points when they flee because fleeing is not the same as being slain, right? In regards to Fold Reality, the spells specifically says if you roll a 1 than every model in the unit is slain. You get 2 blue horror points for every remaining Pink Horror in a unit that rolled a 1 with Fold Reality.
  10. I'm having issues with playing a magic heavy summoning list. Lord of Change w/ Gryph charm & bolt of tzeentch; Gaunt Summoner w/ arcane sacrifice and glimpse; 2x10 pink horrors w/ fold reality and mutation; aethervoid pendulum. I'm not entirely sure how to explain my issue, but in short I don't think I know how to place my summoned units effectively. I know it depends on the mission, which is part of what makes it difficult to figure out how to do it right. These are 3 things I've done and the issues I've had with them: I go first and summon blue horrors on the mid-field objectives. Then my enemy charges them on his turn 1 and spends the rest of the game with multiple units within 9" of the objectives, making it difficult to reclaim them. I go first and summon blue horrors further away from the enemy so that he cannot get any charges off this turn, but they often find a way to do just that and then I end up with enemies right in front of my deployment zone for the entire game. I go second, my opponent is close to the center of the board and when I summon I can't summon more than a few inches forward. I'm only playing 1,000 points and so I roughly have a guaranteed unit of blue horrors on my first turn and very likely a second one. Most missions either don't have objectives on turn 1 or the objectives are "off" on turn 1, so the majority of the time I don't need to be standing anywhere in particular on the first turn. I almost always choose who goes first (I have 4 drops and haven't fought a battalion). What factors do you consider when you're choosing whether to go first or second?
  11. @mmimzie oh, I see. Yeah the predatory rules imply that there is not a choice.
  12. It only does damage if it moves. Scenario A) Enemy moves the Pendulum a tiny, tiny fraction of an inch, but both of my Pink Horrors are 1" away from it, so they each take d6 mortal wounds. Scenario B) Enemy chooses not to move the Pendulum. Since it did not move it does no damage. The distinction is important to me. The wording says "it can move" and "if it moves it inflicts D6 mortal wounds," so can the enemy choose to pick the Pendulum and then not move it? Meaning even if I'm an inch away I won't take damage?
  13. It moves 8" and has a 1" range with a ~ 1"x2" base. You can't even deny an objective with it, the enemy can just move to a place where they won't get hit because the only unknown factor of the pendulum's movement is how far along the 8" path it'll move. Can someone answer this, though?: Can a player choose not to move the Pendulum? If so, does it deal damage to units within 1" or no? Also, do they block movement? I've been using them as blocking movement since it's unrealistic to place models where the endless spell model is located.
  14. Honestly, that makes more sense than having it randomly switch directions. It also sounds like a worthless endless spell outside of the turn it's cast or when used to kill your own models.
  15. @Magnus The Blue Oh, even better. Can the Pendulum be chosen not to move on a given turn? If it does not move, does it still damage units within 1" or no? I'm wondering what I have to do to guarantee damage on Pink Horrors. In the past I've been surrounding the Pendulum, but now I'll just stand in front of it. But to what extent can the enemy use the Pendulum to not hurt my Pink Horrors? If he loses initiative can be choose to make Pendulum do nothing? @CountryMou3e Yeah, I hear you.
  16. I use Arcane Sacrifice, too. I switched from swords to pendulum because the pendulum can only move in forwards and backwards, so the placement is easier. I also prefer the 3.5 avg over the 4 avg because the pendulum's minimum roll is 1 whereas the swords can inflict 0 mortal wounds at times. Plus, the pendulum can be turned against the enemy later in the game whereas the swords are mostly only good against Chaos. Deployment is so tricky no matter what I do 😆
  17. Pink Horrors cost 200 points, Quicksilver Swords costs 20 points: 220 points. If you're taking Pink Horrors without predatory endless spells than you're going to struggle. Pink Horrors become a useful unit when combined with Quicksilver Swords, Aethervoid Pendulum, The Burning Head, Destiny Dice of 1, and Fold Reality.
  18. @mmimzie you were kinda right about those Tzaangors. Though afterward my opponent said he didn't move as aggressively turn 1 because they weren't acolytes, when he did charge them he charged them with a lot and after bravery they were dropped to a single model. Next I'll try with 20 pink horrors and hope I don't roll 0 1s for destiny dice lol.
  19. I've used my LoC to combat a Magmadroth, which was a bad idea. I dropped him to 3 wounds left in the hero phase so I was safe from his magma blood by the combat phase. I figured I could inflict 3 wounds with the sword no problem, but I should've used destiny dice because I wiffed my attacks and ended up using 5 5+ DD to save against the 10 wounds that were inflicted on him. In other cases, though, I've charged Chaos Knights & Warriors, SCE Gryph-hounds, and flesh eater courts ghouls with the LoC and all of these were extremely successful. What I've found is, enemies will charge my acolytes and sometimes a couple will remain. I'll use my DD of 2s for bravery because 2s are worthless for all else. So, with a couple acolytes keeping the unit stuck and no one close enough to counter-charge my LoC because I can see the success of my magic phase before I move or charge, I've been able to save the acolytes that survive on turn 1 or 2. It has been quite helpful and I'm hoping that a unit of Tzaangors will make these situations more prevalent. I also find that sometimes my placement of acolytes or blue horrors quickens my enemy's advance up the board. Usually this happens when I advance with the acolytes to get on an objective or I summon blue horrors onto an objective - the enemy gets to the middle of the board sooner due to charges and ends up in my face very early on even when they are slow armies.
  20. I've considered running with 2 units of pink horrors with the LoC and summoner, but I get worried about not having enough to protect my casters with. I haven't bothered to try it because I only had 10 pink horrors, but I've got 20 to build so I might try that out. My thinking about replacing the acolytes with tzaangors is that they'll actually do something. The acolytes just die, but the tzaangors are a formidable wall that can hit back well for a battleline. They're not very powerful and a single unit of 10 won't be a big threat, but with 5 spells, summoning, and some ranged attacks I keep the enemy on the offensive. My LoC is very okay in melee, by himself he can't take on much but with the tzaangors nearby they can be used to take out something nice I'm hoping. The gaunt summoner will stand 3" away from the pink horrors on an objective while the tzaangors stay within 12" protecting them and getting buffed because he is an arcanite hero. I don't actually have a magistre, but how useful is having 20 pink horrors with a single footslogging character?
  21. I have no experience playing Fyreslayers, but I've been trying to help my buddy with his that he just started. Magmadroth seems very powerful. My friend uses it as a Runefather, but I'd guess whichever has the buff you like the most would be the one to use. The Runefather's battleshock buff has some useful utility, so I think it's a sound choice. Battlesmith seems particularly useful, particularly in larger games. My friend is very excited from his Grimwrath Berzerker and plans to put him in his 1,000 point list. The hero seems powerful and he's pretty cheap so we'll see how that goes. He's a good contester for Ghyrstrike, giving him a 2+ to hit and to wound. Idk what is better on the Vulkite Berzerkers, but my friend uses 20 with dual axes and 10 with picks and shields in 1,000 points. I think having 1 of each instead of 2 of both is better because you can then direct them at the enemy unit that they want to fight. Picks vs enemies with a 4+ or 5+ save and Axes vs enemies with a 5+ or 6+ save. Making 5 or 10 of those Hearthguard into the shooty kind could be useful as ranged support, backline defenders from summoning/deep strike, and any backfield objectives. As for melee Hearthguard, I'm not sure what I'd do. The greataxes are more powerful than your dual axes or picks, but are otherwise basically the same thing. The mortal wound weapons on the other hand offer something new to your army - a way to inflict mortal wounds. The downside, however is that your unit is slow and therefore cannot reliably choose which enemy it will fight and therefore might not fight the tough, elite enemy that it wants to. My friend uses a Runesmiter to deepstrike his unit of pick berzerkers. This might be a useful strategy for using the mortal wound hearthguard unit as you'd be able to put them where they're needed most. My friend's 1,000 point list: Runefather on Magmadroth Runesmiter Runeson Grimwrath Berzerker 10 Vulkite Berzerkers - Picks and shield 20 Vulkite Berzerkers - dual axes 5 Auric Hearthguard Make a list with your 3 heroes (use only 1 magmadroth) and as many of the vulkite and hearthguard as you'd like. Edit: Just realized, Runemaster makes Auric Hearthguard battleline and the Runefather makes the hearthguard berzerkers battleline, so you should almost definitely turn 1 of your magmadroths into a runefather.
  22. After getting absolutely wrecked by my friend's Slaves to Darkness Maggotkin I grabbed some Tzaangors and completely changed my list. Mortal wound spam wasn't working at all against my foe's 5+/6+ MW saves. I used 2x10 Tzaangors, 9 Enlightened on discs, and a Shaman and it worked quite well (he conceded at the beginning of turn 3 after losing 2 heroes, 10 warriors, and 5 knights). When I fought my other friend's Sylvaneth army with this same list I was decimated. I need either rend -2 or mortal wounds to defeat some of his very hardy units. His treelord had a 2+ rerollable armor save that ignored my -1 rend. I imagine the LoC with Infernal gateway and the sword could do a lot better in this situation than my tzaangors. I'd like to combine the daemonic forces and tzaangors for my 1,000 point list for a tournament. I would prefer to not have a specific list for each of my enemies (because my enemies are my friends) and I fear this sort of planning will be problematic when my friends start experimenting and alternating their lists and strategies. With these thoughts in mind, my first instinct is to swap out my acolytes for tzaangors: 180 - Gaunt Summoner - Arcane Sacrifice, Arcane Suggestion 380 - Lord of Change - Gryph-Feather Charm, Bolt of Tzeentch 180 - 10 Tzaangors - 4 greatblades, 4 paired blades, 1 mutant,1 shield, 1 hornblower, 1 icon bearer 200 - 10 Pink Horrors - Unchecked Mutation 940 40 - Aethervoid Pendulum I've stopped taking Quicksilver Swords because once I rolled 0 5+s and I also sometimes win initiative and in these instances the Swords becomes dangerous whereas the Pendulum is much more easily controlled.
  23. I agree with @Luke1705, the +10" movement and fly keyword are HUGE. Paying the points exclusively for these would be expensive, but I think it'd be a desirable option. The disc attacks (and the extra wound) are very useful, too. The ability to fly means they can charge through units and with Destiny Dice we can predestine our charge ranges if we want to. Additionally, the disc enlightened don't just have superior damage, they also have a smaller combat surface area, which means they're dealing more damage while taking less in return. The only advantage for footslogging enlightened is greater numbers and I think that'd only be worth not using the discs if your army was tailored around your footslogging enlightened. I've played a lot of Khorne in my time and I'm very familiar with the flaw in using a powerful melee unit that is not very mobile. I think the discs are what makes the enlightened so powerful because 16" movement allows them to fight only the fights that they want to fight and they can always fight on whatever location they choose. Not to mention the name of the game is objective securing and a 16" move unit can land on an objective practically any turn it chooses to. Edit: I'm only thinking in terms of DoT, Idk about the context of BoC.
  24. What newsun said, basically. The main thing he does is prevent Fold Reality from failing once per game, which should usually be enough to prevent it from failing at all but occasionally it will fail a second time, but it should be late enough in the game at this point that Fold Reality has done wonders. Replacing the 1 that destroys the unit is very helpful, but getting to turn it into a 6 means the unit is likely going to reach max again. He also can cast/unbind two spells very reliably and his Gift of Change spell can be used to place Chaos Spawns in disruptive positions. He's a large, monstrous threat as well. He might not be a powerful monster in combat, but he's still a monster and and has 7 attacks with a -1 and 2 damage. Combine him with the Lord of Change and you can jump down and tear something up. The Lord of Change has the best spell I know of, with a common average of 6 mortal wounds at the peak of his strength. Plus the utility of providing +1 to cast for all daemon wizards and being a very reliable cast himself. I don't think spamming Tzaangor Enlightened is the way to go, but maybe that is powerful. It's certainly challenging to defend more than 9, so I'd stick with the 9 and make sure to use them to your advantage by targeting the right enemy units and not being shy about casualties. The Gaunt Summoner mostly because 1) he can use the LoC's buff, and 2) the chances of having an enemy unit with at least 10 models for him to target is too likely. Pink Horrors for a battleline that never rests.
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