AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[ChaosUndivided]

@AresX8 i read the notes but seems wrong to me and here is why. Take the Wrathmongers for example, they have multiple models and you have to be wholly within to receive the buff but you dont have to be wholly within all of them just 1.

I'm willing to accept that you have to be wholly within both skulls, however, if thay is the case it makes them nearly worthless as they are a 4+ to cast then require you pass a 5+ dispel check before they even have any effect on your opponent. That is really bad.

[Mikeymajq]

3 hours ago, KhorneySteve said:

Interestingly my local warhammer shop thinks that you can't buff Skarbrand to have extra attacks with carnage as it says "don't follow the normal attack sequence, instead roll a dice" 

They reckon because it states roll a single dice that's it, it doesn't say roll a dice per attack either so they could be correct. 

Thoughts? 

It can totally be buffed as stated above, and the rule says "Do not use the attack sequence for an attack made with Carnage. "  not just roll one dice when attacking.  

[ledha]

19 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

It's been mention but there is some serious power in a Goretide Chaos Lord on Manticore:

250 points: 

(Dimensonal Blade)

4 Attacks 3+ 3+ -3 Rend d3 +1 dmg or Fail at 6 Attacks 3+ 3+ -3 Rend 2 Dmg

3 Attacks 3+ 3+ -1 Rend 4 Dmg! (on charge)

5 Jaws 4+ 2+ -1 1 Dmg (possibly rerolling hits)

D6  4+ 4+ 1 Dmg

He is no joke. How many heros at 250 have the possibility of two different attacks doing 4dmg?  I think for 250 points, in Goretide, this is your beatstick.  He is pretty easy to kill,  but the good thing is Mortal Blade has a lot of chaff and also a ton of supporting heros to help him out.

 

How do you have so much rend ?

[Chocolate Obturator]

So new to the forum but not new to Khorne. With a new tome I thought it was also time to join in the discussions as well. New tome I am happy with but little disappointed that my Blood Reavers didn't get a slight discount so I could play horde.

Just played four games over the weekend against competitive Stormcast and Sylvaneth Players both of who place high in local Tournaments.

3 wins and a loss (the first)

As an owner of 10 Khorgoraths I went with the Skullfiend Tribe and squeezed 6 into the list with 2 squads of 3. In each of the games they performed amazing when buffed with the re-roll all hits and wounds from the Host  Command Ability,  outperforming my BTIR.

I took the minimum GorePilgrim units to get the Battalion apart from an extra priest. My list was as follows.

 

Gore Pilgrims

5 Blood warriors

10 Blood Reavers

3 Slaughter Priests

1 Bloodscrator (with +4"/fly artifact)

 

10 Fleshounds

3 Khorgoraths

3 Khorgoraths

BTIR (General, with 2A artifact from Host)

Scyla Anfingram (now no longer a hero /leader and piles in 8")

Bleeding icon

 

The only trouble I had was getting the 3 Khorgoraths all within 10" of a hero at the start of the combat phase. The Bloodthirster has tended to shoot off elsewhere to deal with a threat so I was left with the Bloodscrator  with the 4" extra move. However I read the discussion about Valkia and have a spare 20pts. So if I drop a 100pt model, either Priest or Scyla,

I could fit her in and that also frees up an artifact. I like Scyla for the 8" pile in and who doesnt like another Blood Boil and Unbind so I am unsure which to drop. Or even drop the BTIR for a 3rd squad of 3 Khorgoraths but I would run out of command points quickly. The freed up artifact i would probably take is the banner of wrath. 

So what does the collective wisdom reckon? Any glaring mistakes or legality in the list?

Edited March 25, 2019 by Chocolate Obturator
Wall of text

[KhorneySteve]

9 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

It can totally be buffed as stated above, and the rule says "Do not use the attack sequence for an attack made with Carnage. "  not just roll one dice when attacking.  

Thanks for clearing that up, I'll inform my local Warhammer shop that they're wrong 🙂

[Mikeymajq]

Just gotta say I love that crazy amount of Korgoraths!  

No idea what you'd drop as I've never run anything like that, and I don't own Scyla. 

How did the bleeding icon do? 

 

[Kaz]

49 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Enough that it runs into the gaps and recesses but not so much that it starts running down to the base and/or start pooling. It's a bit vague but the best guideline anyone can give you. Maybe watch a couple vids, where you can see the actual process.

If it starts pooling (happens when shading bigger models) you can just "pick" up with your brush.

If you want to darken down the model further (i.e. really dark iron look) you can apply multiple coats of that color. I did that with 3 coats of Nuln Oil on models that had Leadbelcher as base color.

 

48 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

 

If you use too much of any wash it will leave that sort of shiny, glazed look to it. A thin spray of Matt Varnish would help. The biggest mistake people make with washes is they just slap on a huge paint brush load, move it around a little and call it done.

If you take a little bit more time, I know I know :), thin it down a little bit, with some medium or water, apply a layer, use your brush you soak up the areas that are pooling too much and use your brush to clean off the flat surfaces, I promise you will be happier with the results. It takes no more skill just a little bit more time.

Then you go back if it's not dark enough with a second layer, and maybe this time only hit the major shadowed areas. BOOM now you have multiple layers of shadows and darkness and it requires no more skill, just a little bit more time. Hell you can use a hair dryer if you don't want to wait  

How dare you assume the  prejudice/stereotype/whatever that I’m the usual battletome Khorne frothing berserker who can’t be patient such delicate things!! XD XD 

29 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

I'm curious, how many games with the new book have you played so far?

You 100% get as many Carnage rolls as Skarbrand has attacks with the weapon. The normal attack sequence is clearly defined in the core rules on pg 232, under Making Attacks. If Carnage has 3 attacks, this means you roll 3 dice to see if Total Carnage triggers, not 1.

You need to be wholly within 8" of both Hexgorger Skulls. Wholly within as defined by the Designer's Commentary:
 

 

To do a dirt effect you're better off doing a series of drybrushes over Agrax Earthshade. Agrax will make the model look like dirty water has dried on the area. I do mud with the following:

- Drybrush Mournfang Brown
- Drybrush Ushabti Bone

I suggest you try this out on a discrete area first as the Mournfang Brown layer is pretty subtle over red at first, the Ushabti Bone is what will make it pop since it's such a bright bone color and it's done to emphasis contrast. If you don't want that contrast, you can sub out Ushabti Bone for Balor Brown.

OMG THANKS GUYSSSS, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!! 

4 minutes ago, Chocolate Obturator said:

So new to the forum but not new to Khorne. With a new tome I thought it was also time to join in the discussions as well. New tome I am happy with but little disappointed that my Blood Reavers didn't get a slight discount so I could play horde.

Just played four games over the weekend against competitive Stormcast and Sylvaneth Players both of who place high in local Tournaments.

3 wins and a loss (the first)

As an owner of 10 Khorgoraths I went with the Skullfiend Tribe and squeezed 6 into the list with 2 squads of 3. In each of the games they performed amazing when buffed with the re-roll all hits and wounds from the Host  Command Ability,  outperforming my BTIR.

I took the minimum GorePilgrim units to get the Battalion apart from an extra priest. My list was as follows.

 

Gore Pilgrims

5 Blood warriors

10 Blood Reavers

3 Slaughter Priests

1 Bloodscrator (with +4"/fly artifact)

 

10 Fleshounds

3 Khorgoraths

3 Khorgoraths

BTIR (General, with 2A artifact from Host)

Scyla Anfingram (now no longer a hero /leader and piles in 8")

Bleeding icon

 

The only trouble I had was getting the 3 Khorgoraths all within 10" of a hero at the start of the combat phase. The Bloodthirster has tended to shoot off elsewhere to deal with a threat so I was left with the Bloodscrator  with the 4" extra move. However I read the discussion about Valkia and have a spare 20pts. So if I drop a 100pt model, either Priest or Scyla,

I could fit her in and that also frees up an artifact. I like Scyla for the 82 pile in and who doesnt like another Blood Boil and dispel so I am unsure which to drop. Or even drop the BTIR for a 3rd squad of 3 Khorgoraths but i would run out of command points quickly. The freed up artifact i would probably take is the banner of wrath. 

So what does the collective wisdom reckon? Any glaring mistakes or legality in the list?

War God’s brazen balls, that’s a lot of khorgies. The Queen Elizabeth II might like you my friend.  Also Lord Skadrax of the Skullfiend Tribe, and Vrak Brazenfist are ready to welcome you with open arms. If you don’t mind, I was thinking try skullfiend Tribe with Skulltake, bring lots of Khorgorath buffed by Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers! Khorgoraths with lots of attacks plus Skullfiend Command ability will have lots of chances at those sweet 6s to wound, so RIP AND TEAR  

[Chocolate Obturator]

1 minute ago, Mikeymajq said:

Just gotta say I love that crazy amount of Korgoraths!  

No idea what you'd drop as I've never run anything like that, and I don't own Scyla. 

How did the bleeding icon do? 

 

Whenever I went second it would "phase-out" on the battle round end and there was never a time I could safely put a Priest within 8". But it chips away at units with mortal wounds much like I am hoping with the banner , I tried all 3 in my initial match but the skulls  tended to go before the opponents turn so achieved nothing and the Axe was difficult to summon consistently even with re-rolls.

[AresX8]

15 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

@AresX8 i read the notes but seems wrong to me and here is why. Take the Wrathmongers for example, they have multiple models and you have to be wholly within to receive the buff but you dont have to be wholly within all of them just 1.

I'm willing to accept that you have to be wholly within both skulls, however, if thay is the case it makes them nearly worthless as they are a 4+ to cast then require you pass a 5+ dispel check before they even have any effect on your opponent. That is really bad.

Good point on the Wrathmongers. After flipping back and forth between the section I quoted in the Designer's Commentary and reading how Wrathmongers are worded, I'm comfortable saying that I'm wrong. The KHORNE PRIEST only has to be wholly within 1 of the Hexgorger Skulls, not both.

Here's why:

- There's 2 sentences in the answer from the Designer's Commentary, the first one is what matters here as our Priests are units consisting of 1 model.

"A model is wholly within a certain distance if every part of its base is within the stated distance. "

You are checking to see if the KHORNE PRIEST is wholly within 8", not the Hexgorger Skulls.  As you've stated, Wrathmongers are a unit of a minimum of 5 models, and the KHORNE unit that wants to receive a buff has to be wholly within 8" of any number of models of the Wrathmongers. This is clarified on pg 226 of the core rules:

 

Quote

When measuring the distance between units, always use the closest model from each unit to measure how far apart the units are. So, for example, a unit is within 12" of another unit as long as any model from one unit is 12" or less from any model from the other unit. You can measure distances whenever you wish.

 

[Forrix]

This might be pure wishlisting but do you think there's any chance of the Gorechosen battalion being FAQ'd to let us go over 6 heroes?  Unless I'm missing something its weird that it has a matched play points cost but is illegal in matched play because of the 6 hero limit?

Side Note: What is the email for GW rules questions? I can never find it...

[AresX8]

1 minute ago, Forrix said:

This might be pure wishlisting but do you think there's any chance of the Gorechosen battalion being FAQ'd to let us go over 6 heroes?  Unless I'm missing something its weird that it has a matched play points cost but is illegal in matched play because of the 6 hero limit?

Side Note: What is the email for GW rules questions? I can never find it...

It should be AoSFAQ@gwplc.com

[Choombatta]

15 minutes ago, Forrix said:

This might be pure wishlisting but do you think there's any chance of the Gorechosen battalion being FAQ'd to let us go over 6 heroes?  Unless I'm missing something its weird that it has a matched play points cost but is illegal in matched play because of the 6 hero limit?

Side Note: What is the email for GW rules questions? I can never find it...

8 hero limit if playing at the 2500pt level, correct?

[Ravinsild]

I've put a lot of though into this list, brainstorming for awhile. 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Bloodlords

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterer's Thirst 
- Artefact: Halo of Blood 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Exalted Deathbringer with Impaling Spear (80)
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
40 x Bloodreavers (240)
- Meatripper Axes
6 x Bloodcrushers (280)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells
Wrath-Axe (60)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

I can remove the Judgements of Khorne if they prove too unreliable or worthless for their points, opting instead for Flesh Hounds or any other 100 point (or under) thing. I may also fall out of Gore Pilgrims, but widening the +1 attack aura for the Bloodsecrator doesn't seem terrible, and I don't know if I can get the list to work with something like Slaughterborn due to the unit requirements it makes of me (Where would I put 2 units of Skullreapers?) 

The idea behind this is essentially to use my Blood Warriors (and Reavers) as Anvils to hold units in place that I want to hit very hard. I want to pin a unit down and keep it in place to set up for my second strike or counter charge. Blood Warriors and Reavers out front, gotta hold back any first turn charges so they can't get to my hammers. 

My first hammer is my Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage. He attacks first (halo Artefact), he'll be hitting on 3's (Killing Frenzy) re-rolling 1's (Locus/if he charged), wounding on 2's hopefully re-rolling 1's (I mean I would hope I can throw him at an enemy Monster due to the slaughterhost special rule, for an example...a Maw-Krusha :P) with up to 7 attacks (5 base, +1 Bloodsecrator, hopefully +1 Wrathmongers). That's a lot of dakka and hopefully it would pay out. 

My second hammer is the Bloodcrushers. They're more of a 1 strike and hope you kill it deal, they wouldn't last in a prolonged fight I reckon. However able to deal D3 mortal wounds potentially 6 times (2+ no 1's plz) on the charge, in addition to hopefully dealing 3 attacks apiece (Wrathmongers, Bloodsecrator), or even simply 2 (Bloodsecrator) fishing for 6's to deal even more mortal wounds plus 3/3/-1/1 then 18 attacks at 3/3/0/1 damage should be able to blow something up, like a unit of Brutes or similar (3+ save, 3 wounds apiece). 

My third hammer is the Exalted Deathbringer. He's mainly here because he's just killy. He would have 5 base attacks, possibly 7 if he's within range of the general for the additional +2, plus another potential +2 (Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers) for a max of 9 attacks at 3/3/-2/1 with unmodified hits of 6 dealing D3 mortals and unmodified wounds of 6 throwing in 2 damage over 1. 

Wrathmongers are killy enough in their own right, but I would rather protect them as losing them and their +1 to attack hurts (from experience ;-;) so they're proper support units now (able to pile in within 3 to use their 2'' range but I would never use them to attack something all by themselves). 

My Slaughterpriests would do what they do best: Add +1 to hit to my BT, heal him and blood boil or draw in a unit for the kill and cast judgements 🤷‍♂️

Now it's a matter of seeing if this plays out in real life. Everyone has their roles, but in a real game how consistently can I execute the game plan and how often does everyone get to play their assigned roles. Guess I'll find out haha. BTW I have no Bloodcrushers but I own everything else in this list. 2 Start Collecting Khorne Daemon boxes (I own 0 demons except the Bloodthirster and SKARBRAND) or just buy the 1 of 6 for 100$? 

[Warbossironteef]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

How do you have so much rend ?

Dimensional Blade Artefact. The rend combination with the added dmg from Gore Pilgrims seems great.

[Ravinsild]

3 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Dimensional Blade Artefact. The rend combination with the added dmg from Gore Pilgrims seems great.

Can he not take the Gorecleaver? Is that BLOODBOUND only and not just generic mortals? 

[Impa]

How's this for a Tyrants of Blood list? blood warriors and blood letters to hold objectives. You have your priest using the axe judgement and buffing the BIR using killing frenzy (+1hit) and the artefact ghyrstrike (+1wound +1hit) to give him 2+hit 1+ wound and re rolling 1's to hit with the greater demon locus. The WoKBT attacks first in combat phase with Halo of blood from the slaughterhost then your BIR then  Skarbrand from the Tyrants of blood battalion (as long as within 3" from a unit). keeping one thirster around the bloodletters for the Locus. and  all daemons receive the ability slay the mighty to re roll wounds on 1 to heros and monsters. I'm a big newb to this game only played with gorepilgrims pre the new battletome. So this will force me to buy new models but it seems like a solid and fun list. i also have a revamped pilgrims list i will post. cheers

Allegiance: Khorne

LEADERS

Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (280)

- General

- Artefact - Ghyrstrike (+1 hit +1 wound to axe)

- Command Trait - Slaughterers thirst (+4” move, reroll charges)

- Ability - Slay the Mighty (reroll wound rolls of 1 made by friendly Bloodlords Daemon units that target a Hero or Monster)

 Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (320)

- Artefact - Halo of Blood (bearer fights first start of combat phase)

- Ability - Slay the Mighty (reroll wound rolls of 1 made by friendly Bloodlords Daemon units that target a Hero or Monster)

 Skarbrand (400)

- Ability - Slay the Mighty (reroll wound rolls of 1 made by friendly Bloodlords Daemon units that target a Hero or Monster)

 Slaughterpriest (100)

- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy

- Judgements of Khorne : Wrath Axe (60)

 UNITS

10 x Blood Warriors (200)

- Goreaxe & Gorefist - Goreglaive - Banner

 10 x Blood Warriors (200)

- Goreaxe & Gorefist – Goreglaive - Banner

 30 x Bloodletters (300)

- Gore Drenched Icon - Blood Soaked Banner

- Ability - Slay the Mighty (reroll wound rolls of 1 made by friendly Bloodlords Daemon units that target a Hero or Monster)

BATTALIONS

Tyrants of Blood (140)

 SLAUGHTERHOST

Blood Lords

 TOTAL: 2000/2000

Edited March 25, 2019 by Impa

[Warbossironteef]

35 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Can he not take the Gorecleaver? Is that BLOODBOUND only and not just generic mortals? 

I dont have my book on me. What is the Gorecleaver again? I think it's just Khorne Mortal Heros.

[Ravinsild]

18 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I dont have my book on me. What is the Gorecleaver again? I think it's just Khorne Mortal Heros.

Well it's for KHORNE MORTAL HERO only.

Pick 1 of the bearer's melee weapons. Improve the rend characteristic of that weapon by 1. In addition, if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with that weapon is 6, double the Damage characteristic for that attack. 

So it does, in fact, NOT improve the rend of /all/ of the melee attack weapons, only 1, but it might still be good? 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 25, 2019 by Ravinsild

[Easytyger]

Your list as stated total 1920 points. The Slaughterpriests are 100 per.

[Easytyger]

4 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

I'm gonna quote myself every day till someone can help me answer this.

It should really be addressed in a FAQ but im thinking you only need to be within 8 of one skull and the Warshrine can't overlap (meaning half within 8 of one and half within 8 of the other). Thoughts?

Lol no one can help you because it needs to be FAQed. Per strict reading of the rules I would think you only need to be wholly within 8’’ of one of the skulls but this does need to be clarified.

[Warbossironteef]

9 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Well it's for KHORNE MORTAL HERO only.

Pick 1 of the bearer's melee weapons. Improve the rend characteristic of that weapon by 1. In addition, if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with that weapon is 6, double the Damage characteristic for that attack. 

So it does, in fact, NOT improve the rend of /all/ of the melee attack weapons, only 1, but it might still be good? 🤷‍♂️

It could be okay but I think the idea is to make the Chaos Lord your source of -2 or better rend since the rest of the mortals lack any really shread. But I think most options would be viable on the Gore Pilgrims Lord. The plus 1 to dmg on a guy with two weapons is awesome.

[Easytyger]

3 hours ago, AresX8 said:

You need to be wholly within 8" of both Hexgorger Skulls. Wholly within as defined by the Designer's Commentary

I’m not sure how the Designers commentary supports the reading that you have to be wholly within 8’’ of both Skulls. We need to see what the actual FAQ I think.

EDIT: ok saw your posts following and you make a good case why it’s only within 8’’ of only one of the skulls. I agree! 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Easytyger

[Battlefury]

Cool ideas so far. But it sounds a little, that the non demons are lackluster again, is that right?

[ChaosUndivided]

3 hours ago, AresX8 said:

Good point on the Wrathmongers. After flipping back and forth between the section I quoted in the Designer's Commentary and reading how Wrathmongers are worded, I'm comfortable saying that I'm wrong. The KHORNE PRIEST only has to be wholly within 1 of the Hexgorger Skulls, not both.

Here's why:

- There's 2 sentences in the answer from the Designer's Commentary, the first one is what matters here as our Priests are units consisting of 1 model.

"A model is wholly within a certain distance if every part of its base is within the stated distance. "

You are checking to see if the KHORNE PRIEST is wholly within 8", not the Hexgorger Skulls.  As you've stated, Wrathmongers are a unit of a minimum of 5 models, and the KHORNE unit that wants to receive a buff has to be wholly within 8" of any number of models of the Wrathmongers. This is clarified on pg 226 of the core rules:

Thanks for this! I was looking for some precedence in rules i could use till this gets a FAQ.

[Wulfrik the Wanderer]

I think my favorite combo in the new battletome is Tyrants of Blood with the Blood Lords.

Assuming you get them all in combat, which you should as Khorne, the Halo of Blood artefact you have to take allows your Bloodthirster to go before either player picks a unit to pile in, so before priority.

Tyrants of Blood allows another Bloodthirster in the same battalion to activate immediately before either player picks again. Must be in range mind you, but fully able to be pulled off.

If this is done on your turn where you would have priority, you could have 3 bloodthirsters pile in and activate before the other player. 2 of your bloodthirsters on there turn when they have priority. 

I like to do a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage along with a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury as I thinj they combo well together with their 8" effects!

This was devastating against a Skaven army as well as a Seraphon army I played on Saturday with 2000 pts.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Wulfrik the Wanderer