Broxus Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I am really hoping to see some significant Nurgle points cuts to make them tournament viable again. Right now almost every unit suffers from a 20-40pt Nurgle tax for no sane reason. They are not killy and pay extra for being as resilient as Death units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 29 minutes ago, Broxus said: I am really hoping to see some significant Nurgle points cuts to make them tournament viable again. Right now almost every unit suffers from a 20-40pt Nurgle tax for no sane reason. They are not killy and pay extra for being as resilient as Death units. You think you have it bad look at the dispossessed;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Veshnakar Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: They've likely done some testing of some of these numbers since then. I would expect so at least. But if it works as per most NDAs, it would have to be games between these individuals. I can't imagine in their one day of games that more than one or two of the handful of forces played were full TK or Fyreslayers. This would be simply true based on the number of games played based on the whole of the system needing tested. Even if those forces did get testing, it wasn't likely done with more than one or two lists at that. Luckily SCGT will allow people to provide feedback based on actual play. We just need to either convince people to buy and paint entire armies (Fyreslayers) or to take TK units at the new values so that we can get some substantive data to evaluate. I can't speak for the Tomb Kings side of things but the Fyreslayer portion was community driven. I personally took the initiative and spearheaded an effort by the Fyreslayers facebook group that saw a good majority of the 500 member group providing feedback on what we thought the points should be across the board for Fyreslayers. We funneled this through the right person and got it in the hands of the design team at GW. They modified some of the suggestions we provided (some up and some down I imagine based on how they are balancing the other armies) but otherwise it's very close to what we sent in. Collectively our group play-tested the heck out of Fyreslayers with our suggested changes to in order to get the points to where we could come to a consensus based on game results and existing knowledge on how the army fares. This is what we felt was right and fair to give Fyreslayers a fighting chance in the meta. Not to make them overpowered. This was also keeping in mind the points from the new DoT book and the knowledge that the majority of changes they would be doing in GHB 2.0 would be, for the most part, minor adjustments not counting some of the standout abused units that have been trending in tournament lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Heelan Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 @buffalozap did you not read my post? D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 8 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said: I think they, and all the fiddly little things that summon bits and bobs in the Tzeentch book, might be a sign of the summoning rules changing. Currently, if one pink horror is killed, to place your blue horrors you need to have a unit of blues already or you are forced to pay for a full warscroll, whilst only placing two. A way forward might be to say that, if you play for ten horrors, you can summon bits of units until they total ten. I've heard that the pink horrors are quite broken in 40k at the moment (don't play it anymore myself, but my friends do), because of the free spawning of blue and brimstone horrors, so I wouldn't go there. Especially in a game that is usually about keeping a spot on the table with as many models as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoTitanedition Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Points, points, points. Am I the only one eager to get some more Path to Glory stuff? My hope is a Path to Glory tree for Bonesplitters and some more generic scenarios for a small narrative campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 2 hours ago, DinoTitanedition said: Points, points, points. Am I the only one eager to get some more Path to Glory stuff? My hope is a Path to Glory tree for Bonesplitters and some more generic scenarios for a small narrative campaign. I would expect more of this in the upcoming book. Don't forget this is just a sneak peek at one little section of it but it's very exciting and encouraging that GW want to let people know this is happening. I'm expecting more posts up on the community site to give more sneak peeks about this 3 hours ago, Jamopower said: I've heard that the pink horrors are quite broken in 40k at the moment (don't play it anymore myself, but my friends do), because of the free spawning of blue and brimstone horrors, so I wouldn't go there. Especially in a game that is usually about keeping a spot on the table with as many models as possible. Yup this is pretty much the thinking behind it. I think 40K is having a bit of a End Times like situation this year but it's a celebration of all things 40K as well as letting people play with cool stuff. Also paying points for warscrolls lets you have units of Blue Horrors or Brimstone Horrors for capturing objectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Piggy backing on @Dan Heelan's post, did you see my followup post @buffalozap? 20 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said: They've likely done some testing of some of these numbers since then. I would expect so at least. Testing has likely continued since the intensive crunch weekend, and Dan has confirmed as much. I'm hopeful that we as a community can get some significant playtesting in (at both home and at events like SCGT) so that informed feedback can be provided on these point values. As I've said elsewhere, I think many are appropriate and some are on the high side. There is one glaring undercosting on the Fyreslayer list but I'm loathe to mention it in detail because the army has preformed so poorly up until this point in Matched Play events. My plan is to provide insight directly to GW on these things and I want to encourage everyone to do the same. They've made it apparent that they are willing to engage the community and listen so it is our responsibility to provide them with well reasoned, data-backed evaluations and comparisons. Anything less is simply complaining. Please go build some lists, test these things, and then provide well thought out feedback supported by data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimli Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Anyone know when the actual GHB2 release date is I'm excited for it and I dont want to really buy anything until I know how much something is and their abilities if changed..... Iron drakes 160 points Just a made up number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dez Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Speculation on my part, but I was thinking about how upset people are concerning the lowered points hence higher monetary cost of Fyreslayers. Do you think they will rebox them at a discount a la Stormcast? I'd like to see another repack for Bonesplittaz while making wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Dez said: Speculation on my part, but I was thinking about how upset people are concerning the lowered points hence higher monetary cost of Fyreslayers. Do you think they will rebid them at a discount a la Stormcast? I'd like to see another repack for Bonesplittaz while making wishes I've not seen moaning but I've seen quite a few comments from Fyreslayers' players who now no longer have enough money to fill out their points. I think that the monetary cost of Fyreslayers is what is their real issue. Yes the points may have put off the more competitive players, the that they are more pricey to build a decent collection will probably effect everyone else as well. Not that it would take much a start collecting box and maybe a re box or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riavan Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said: I've not seen moaning but I've seen quite a few comments from Fyreslayers' players who now no longer have enough money to fill out their points. I think that the monetary cost of Fyreslayers is what is their real issue. Yes the points may have put off the more competitive players, the that they are more pricey to build a decent collection will probably effect everyone else as well. Not that it would take much a start collecting box and maybe a re box or two. Isn't the difference going to be like one or two extra units? It's not that much more expensive. I guess I understand that GW could be buffing units instead. But I'm sure most owners of elite armies would love a few extra bodies to hold those objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 17 minutes ago, Riavan said: Isn't the difference going to be like one or two extra units? It's not that much more expensive. While I think this is a silly argument against the balancing of the game. I'm sure GW would see it as a positive anyway. My tournament 2000pt fyreslayers list is now close to 1500pt just to give you a feel for the difference. ? But me personally I dont care, I already got the models but they are expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 22 minutes ago, Riavan said: Isn't the difference going to be like one or two extra units? It's not that much more expensive. I guess I understand that GW could be buffing units instead. But I'm sure most owners of elite armies would love a few extra bodies to hold those objectives. I agree with this. I suspect most Fyreslayer players have already invested a small fortune in an army, so I don't think this is a major issue 5 hours ago, Dez said: Speculation on my part, but I was thinking about how upset people are concerning the lowered points hence higher monetary cost of Fyreslayers. Do you think they will rebox them at a discount a la Stormcast? I'd like to see another repack for Bonesplittaz while making wishes I would like to see this but too be honest I think I would rather see Aelves and Slaanesh with new models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 26 minutes ago, Riavan said: But I'm sure most owners of elite armies would love a few extra bodies to hold those objectives. I have to comment your edit. I agree with what you are saying regarding complaining that you get more stuff in your lists. But make no mistake, Fyreslayers is a horde army (close to 100 models in 2000pt) not an elite army. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 2/9/2017 at 10:52 PM, Lord Veshnakar said: I can't speak for the Tomb Kings side of things but the Fyreslayer portion was community driven. I personally took the initiative and spearheaded an effort by the Fyreslayers facebook group that saw a good majority of the 500 member group providing feedback on what we thought the points should be across the board for Fyreslayers. We funneled this through the right person and got it in the hands of the design team at GW. They modified some of the suggestions we provided (some up and some down I imagine based on how they are balancing the other armies) but otherwise it's very close to what we sent in. Collectively our group play-tested the heck out of Fyreslayers with our suggested changes to in order to get the points to where we could come to a consensus based on game results and existing knowledge on how the army fares. This is what we felt was right and fair to give Fyreslayers a fighting chance in the meta. Not to make them overpowered. This was also keeping in mind the points from the new DoT book and the knowledge that the majority of changes they would be doing in GHB 2.0 would be, for the most part, minor adjustments not counting some of the standout abused units that have been trending in tournament lists. And I thank you much?? Repairing/finishing some Fyreslayers Lodge for Holy Wars next weekend and when I next use these new experimental points now my inventory shows I'll need 10 more hearthguard Berzerkers at least. 25 Just won't cut it. Glad I stopped aurics at 15 so now I would have a total of 3,000 points before battalions. Almost 1,000 point drop! Happy dance indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 The Magmadroth was already a pretty extortionate model when you considered its points cost, but now with the cost drop it's even harder to justify pounds-to-points to a new army builder. Sadly Fireslyayers are the literal red-headed stepchild at the local store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalus81 Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Probability of a repack with lower prices seems high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I do hope we get a box, but would need to be a battle force unless GW really drop the price of the Magmabomb kit. After game 100 (so sooooon!) of solo Fyreslayers I want a third so that times nicely with new points for my reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warboss Gorbolg Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Fyreslayers are going to cost more than $1,000 US to collect a little over 2k points based on the lists I've seen floating around. The "cheap" models are $6/each. The points reduction may not bother existing Fyreslayer collectors too much but it definitely will keep me on the sidelines. In contrast, I expect my Ironjawz to cost half of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Only until Start Collecting Fyreslayers comes out. I really think Duardin should be elite armies rather than horde. They should have made fyreslayers kick ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlooDeck Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said: Only until Start Collecting Fyreslayers comes out. I really think Duardin should be elite armies rather than horde. They should have made fyreslayers kick ass. I've only played against Fyreslayers once, but I was pretty shocked when I found out they were only 1 wound models. Duardin seem like 2 wound types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soots Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 First post :D. I think releasing sneak peak stats is very very deceptive. especially for TK. We know the summoning rules are very old and dont match the new pitched battle system. Im sure every single one of us is expecting a complete overhaul of the summoning rules. Since 4th edition undead have always had a unique mechanic (unbreakable/crumble/fear/summoning) and we pay through the teeth with this. 8-9pt skeletons are equivalent to 2pt gobbos otherwise. Death will be getting some new rules for summoning which will factor into their cost. We just have to see what it is. The sneak peak should really be ignored by every tourny/games group until the book 2.0 is released because it obviously looks like its factored in new cool things not visible yet. It would be very unfair for the affected armies to play with modified rules and only have a single page visible of perhaps 150 pages which just so happens to show the negative changes to their army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolstedt Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Seraphon are weak and need adjusting. This could be changed by an overhaul on summoning and some tweaks on points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thostos Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 50 minutes ago, tolstedt said: Seraphon are weak and need adjusting. This could be changed by an overhaul on summoning and some tweaks on points. I wouldnt say they are "weak"..I would say more "middling" in terms of army power.They suffer from somewhat expensive hero and battalion costs.Mainly though they are void of many of the new army specific spell charts and could probably use more battalions,especially more of the multi-battalions and their features. Ive been playing them since last fall and do pretty well against other mid tier armies,,I do struggle with top tier builds like SCE lighting strike and Mortal wound and full ranged armies.Using a sideboard does help some though:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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