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CoS dont have a big Shark, Witchelf, Stormfiend, vulk, ark type unit. So generally they get lots of decent msus. of course you can limit the drop, but it would definitely be a more unorthodox min-max all or nothing build. Youre betting on 500+pts to get an endless spell off as your main trump card.Im not saying it wont work. Im just saying its going to fail more than it has to, especially since you dont rate hallowheart who have the best chance in the game to get it off. The other cities struggle to get modifiers. Your also going low drop, Its sounds like an all or nothing solution. I think CoS is one of the most dynamic and flexible armies in the game with T1 shooting, T1 magic and decent melee. Thats why i rate hallowheart, they can get the move spells off easier than any army in the game. Then they also have the best unbreakable solution in the CoS book, then if you want to go defensive, they get an army wide 5+ ward against magic which is priceless against skaven/tzeentch etc. The +1 spell to cast is essentially double value for all your mages as well. Im not saying TE, GWF, LC, HAM are bad. its just Hallowheart is really great. The CA did get nerfed, but its still usable. get an 11+w caster (lum,huric,mounted) to cast it, then heal it back immediately. If you roll basically a 4+, you are freecasting double spells like cyclone and heal and not even Nagash could stop you.

I honestly think Cities is a high drop army. So you will most likely go last, which poses a massive issue for our shooty lists which usually max out at 24" crossbows. This is really bad for Sisters, Irondrakes, etc which need extra help to make use of turn 1. Also greywater getting no love for the +3" range. That is insane for a lot of units that require us to stand still. 3" lets our big shooty units shoot from deployment and really buffs the gyrocopter into T1 levels. My rating T1 Hallowheart Total power x2 spell casts. unbreakable army item. Magic ward. T4. Tempest Eye, Living City, Greywater. Help with the high drop army. All 3 have options to do something first turn. T5 Hammerhaal. Unbreakable and attack twice as well as very synergistic cheap and fast and hard hitting melee units. Would be higher if not for poor drop rate and requirements for the abilities. Very competitive if you generalship around those 2 requirements. T15. Phoenician. Dying as preqrequisite T27. Anvil. Fluffy.

I personally rate them as one of our best units. 280pts = 20 Black Guard. 41x0.67x.67 = 17.9w on the charge. get attacked back by whats left 280pts = 40 Corsairs. 80x0.5x0.5 = 20w on the charge(ie enemy within charge range). dont get attacked back (extra ~5w if you decide to charge) thats up against one of our best melee units in the black guard. Yes they lose their attacks in enemies turn, but if the enemy is attacking you in their turn its probably a lost cause anyway. I usually dont see BG/Pheonix guard surviving if they are already in combat and the enemy has a turn (they will get swamped) They also synergize really well with the cities. Hallowheart, Hammerhal , anvil= unbreakable 40 bodies Tempest = 12" range. possible kiting ability. This unit really excels in the AoS shooting rules vs warhammer (shooting in combat, no multi shot/moving penalties, unbreakable options). They can sit on points and attack from farther away, can be inspired/unbreakable which means they will survive a turn against basically every unit in the game as chaff.

With a lot of units canned from the old City lists, it seems like we need opinions on what is personally accepted as proxies. Simple yes or no is good(accepted). Tourny perspective would be good too. perfectly fine to give an opinion of no to everything. Phoenix guard 1. Swordmasters. (0/3 Votes) 2. White Lions (2/3 Votes) (2 maybes) Shadow Warriors 1. Glade guard (3/3 Votes) 2. High Elf Archers (1/3 Votes) 3. Waywatchers (2/2 Votes) 3. Empire Huntsmen (3/3 Votes) Longbeards 1. Dwarf warriors (3/3 Votes) 2. Dwarf Miners (3/3 Votes) Hammerers 1. Dwarf Warrior with 2 hander. (2/2 Votes) Crossbowmen 1. Dwarf Quarrelers (3/3 Votes) 2. Empire/Brettonian Archers (1.5/3 Votes) 3. High elf Archers (1/1 Votes) Handgunners 1. Dwarf Thunderers (2.5/3 Votes) Dreadspears 1. Louthern Seaguard (2.5/3 Votes) 2. HE spearm elves (2.5/3 Votes) Wildwood rangers 1. White Lions (3/3 Votes) 2. Wardancers (3/3 Votes) Corsairs 1. Freecompany (2/3 Votes) Luminark/hurricanum 1. War Altar (3/3 Votes) 2. Anvil (3/3 Votes) DreadLord on Black Dragon 1. Dragonlord high elf (2/2 Votes) Sorcereress on Black Dragon 1. Arch mage HE Dragon (2/2 Votes) Drakespawn Knights 1. Dragon Princes (1/1 Votes) BattleMage 1. Loremaster (1/1 Votes) 2. Archmage (1/1 Votes) Nomad Prince 1. HE nobles (1/1 Votes) FreeGuild General 1. HE nobles (1/1 Votes) Sisters of Watch 1. Glade Guard (1/1 Votes) Please add for more acceptable or arguable/recommended options and ill update. Edit: edited 3/12/2019

Higher wounds. I would argue are better for battleshock since you only get -1 for every 2 wounds (though you lose 2 wounds per fail, but at those levels you are either IP or removing your unit anyways). Less susceptible to warpifre throwers and other "1 per model in range" abilities. also smaller footprint has pros and cons. smaller = more in b2b to get all attacks. harder to get enemy models in range to attack. Sequitors get reroll save as a built in ability. no need for castellant. They are 25% more tougher against rend 0, and slightly tougher than phoenix guard at -1 rend. (per 100 pts) Phoenix guard become tougher at rend -2 and higher -though we are looking at the big bad unit killers at that point so its moot. All this while having the ability to switch to reroll attacks to have the output of a greatsword unit (~55% more damage than phoenix guard), even in defensive mode, they are outputting about 15-20% more damage than phoenix guard (per 100pts). Phoenix guard however have better move, dont need to take up an sc slot.

So now youre paying 170pts for wizard and bridge and for a chance to get off a game changer endless spell which the opponent will fight. I really dont like relying on getting off a massive endless spell to do things.

I still dont rate Phoenix guard efficiency wise. Sequitors are tougher most of the time. and output considerably more. 16pts is a killer. I agree with restrictive roll of Eternal guard. The big bonus to them is they get their bonus every turn except for the turn they charge. So they are great at securing objectives or anvilling infront of a gunline. This is important to us because our shooting is an anomoly and is far more efficient than our melee. I definitely wouldnt take them as our only elite, but they are one of the best units in the game at what they do Blackguard vs executioners is arguable. I agree blackguard are indeed better. But at 30x Blackguard are still 14pts and executioners become 11pts. The only difference to me is rend vs mortal wounds.. The melee advantage of blackguard is easily offset by the point cost imo. You can get an extra 20x 3/4 attacks and bodies with a crossbow unit you can buy with the savings.

Im saying the irondrakes need to be stationary at 16" to get efficiency. Once they move, their efficiency gets halved. Same goes for sisters and crossbowmen - who unfortunately usually cannot hit the enemy turn 1. Darkshards need to go tempest or burn a ca to shoot first turn. Im just pointing out that with our high drops we will likely have to take first turn so its a real issue for us not being able to hit with shooting for an entire turn. Kite = ability to shoot and move so enemy cannot touch them.

Do you know the wdr calculator? I did numbers and my ratings showed corsairs having a higher efficiency than dark shards. But obvious pros and cons. I feel like Freecities cannot do low drops and will likely go first. So you need some type of way to shoot at 24+ inches otherwise you literally lose a turn of the game which just completely destroys effiency. This pretty much voids the stand and shoot units. Especially 16" range which is basically only 1 turn of double shots before enemy is in. I rate dark shards best because they can kite with 16" range whereas corsairs cannot.

Damage ratings are based off average wounds per 100 pts. For example. Greatswords are 7.62. A 160 pt unit does 20 * 4/6 * 4/6 (20 attacks, 3s to hit, 3s to wound) is 8.888 wounds. In 20a, they will trigger the 6+ mw 3.33 times for a total of 12.2 wounds. 160 pts for 12.2wounds is a rating of 7.62 wounds per 100pts. This doesnt signify the rend and mw, which is very important and i stated that in the post. There is a lot of assumptions for stuff like will the unit typically have a freeguild hero within 18" (I would probably not do this as foot gen is very static and the mounted general is a different comp). So i excluded this bonus, but i said you can get it in the notes section. Other bonuses like Darkshards having more than x models is included because that is an easy requirement. Defensive ratings are relative amount of attacks they can withstand per 100w. The numbers are for comparative purposes. Greatswords have 8. To kill a 160pt unit of greatswords. you need to do 20 no rend wounds. (half saved). 160/20 = 8. Phoenix guard are 4. To kill a 160pt unit. You need to do 40 wounds (half saved by armor, half by ward). 160/40 = 4. There are obviously other synergies/spells you can pile on. Like, typically you might want to throw an alchemist into a unit of arkanauts to get double shot. In which case, ive added the cost of an alchemist into the cost of the unit (and you can see its not as efficient as 20 arkanauts by themselves). My assumptions are based off whether the bonus is typically inherently included or whether you need to pay for (whether its paying points or meeting requirements which you typically would not want to do). Its not a perfect system, but it gives a good measurement for optimal efficiencies and makes a lot of units look redundant (e.g. pheonix guard vs sequitors, pistoliers vs gryphon knights)

Did my own efficiency ratings for decent units Damage = unsaved wounds per100 points (doesnt say if rend or mw, but does include wounds) Rend0 = (lower better) Relative defensive value against rend 0 (value for each wound per point) (Rend1 and Rend2 with their rend respectively) Blue = melee ratings. grey is missile ratings. (a few assumptions made - e.g. typical unit size to get bonuses, typical loadouts etc) Melee Conclusions: You pay for rend and mw Cost for movement is effectively ignored. Dwarfs do not get a discount for mv4 vs elven mv6. Saw this with Skaven. IMO big oversight Pistoliers > gryphon knights at nearly everything. Better defense, better move, better offense. Eternal guard (rated at standing still) is possibly the most efficient unit in the game if it does not charge. Corsairs with a fleetmaster are at around Plaguemonk output. Sequitors are amazing. Melee elites. imo. . id go executioner/blackguard. The sorcerer character is a near must include, and their ca makes darkling units charger farther than cavalry (basically 14" + D6 with CAs). Especially with the synergy from the sorc who will be +2/3 to cast you can get a bridge off easier for alpha striking. There are a few alpha striking SC units that i didnt include. They have very poor efficiency from my last review Missile Conclusions Shooting efficiency is similar to melee. This is the first game ive played that does this. Scratch that, first army. I wasnt expecting this. Usually doing ranged damage involves a greater cost. It will be feasible to not take in any melee at all considering you can shoot in combat and we can msu. Everyones gonna hate us Hurricanum is a near must include. Every unit benefits. and it doesnt have the "Wholly" requisite. 2 May even be worthwhile to cover more area and do some crazy character sniping. Crossbowmen vs darkshards has been discussed to death. Corsairs are more efficient, but i dislike the 9" range because thats guaranteed charge range whereas 16/24 isnt. I dont like stand and shoot crossbowmen, let alone sisters/irondrake with shorter range for obvious reasons (maybe in living city with a guaranteed range drop to alpha enemy off table) Ballista is the most efficient -2 shot we have.

6s always hit. unfortunately.

This looks to be the most broken city. Definitely needs the no-charge after the extra move. Also, anyone here not thinking about the ridiculous alpha striking double shoot units? XBowmen and Irondrakes being dropped within range deleting whole units? I immediately saw the same kind of power levels when LoN got their book and gravesites and Skaven got their rules. I feel like this is easily the new aspiring level of optimise hammer.

Gyrocopters seem decent in Tempest. Can move 3x Gyrocopters 26" first turn. Thats like upto 120-130 x rend shots at a 40 man unit before they get their turn

Phoenician Corsairs hit hard and hit guaranteed with the Pheonician CA. Legit tactic imo. Also, someone said corsairs are 80/240 (10/40). Can anyone confirm if the discount for 40 is 240 or 280?