The Cursed City situation

[Chikout]

With the pre-order of some of  the Cursed City minis coming up, the Cursed City debate has been reignited. I'm very curious what the situation around Cursed City actually is. I have been fairly vocal on social media, saying that gw should explain what is going on with cursed city yet here I am, painting the copy I successfully got on launch day. 

I've seen the game reappearing in stock in some third party retailers and I'm very curious to see if GW actually badly misjudged demand or not. 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Chikout

[Joseph Mackay]

I didn’t have the money when it went up for preorder. Based on the previous Warhammer Quests and the fact GW said it was a ‘permanent’ range item, I planned to pick it up shortly after release. However, that doesn’t seem like an option anymore.

I picked up the components (rules, boards, cards etc) from someone who split out the box in case it doesn’t get reprinted, so I’ll just have to pick up the models as they’re released separately 

off-topic note: I’m extremely disappointed that in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome, they’ve made it like the Underworlds Warbands where you have to take the full set. The fact you can’t have battleline Vyrkos Blood Born basically killed any interest I had in Soulblight as an army, but I’ll still pick up the models I like for my Grand Alliance Death army. Additionally it makes no sense they’ve made all these new Vyrkos heroes (Radukar etc) but they have no Vyrkos units to lead

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

I am more confused by the fan/ex-fan response more than anything.  I didn't follow the new for Cursed City all that close, but I don't remember anywhere GW saying it was going to be a perennial product.  Quite the opposite in that I figured once it sold out that it would it just like literally dozens of other box sets and specialist game sets.  I also figured that due to the pandemic they might be less copies and/or demand would be way up compared to say when Blackstone Fortress came out. Which meant a very limited time window.

Appears that is about what happened.  Although, after the bit pass the pre-oder phase, there did seem to be a period that if you really wanted a copy you could find a store that had a bunch of copies available.  I don't know if that was true or not, but the places I visit on the interest seemed to be pretty good at sniffing out places that still had copies and making others aware of it.

What really confuses me is this insistence that GW should have said something. Outside a rush to get a copy and the game selling out incredibly fast, it seemed like a pretty normal GW release.  As in GW hypes the gak out of it up to pre-order day then never speaks of it save maybe some painting tutorials.  Pretty standard operating procedure of GW.  Especially when they appeared to have sold their entire stock of Cursed City.  Not much of a point trying to sell it more as there isn't more to sell.  So typical GW they move onto the next big release and begin/continue to hype that where the cycle starts anew.

I sort of get it.  People weren't informed it was a one and done.  Which honestly, how often does GW state that without being prodded.  Also how much finger pointed of FOMO would happen?  I don't remember the Kill Team starter being sold as a one run product back in 2018.  Which it certainly as the Kill Team starter was basically gone by November (it was released in August) or sooner in a lot of places.  It never came back and was replaced by a lesser, more expensive one later (which was also a one and done).  I know it is a bit frustrating that GW releases have basically been selling out the week (sometimes the day or even the minute) that pre-ordering is possible.  I haven't been able to get a hold any preorder through my FLGS since  the Wave 1 Lumineth release, and honestly I was concerned then as my area has a huge number of would be Lumineth players.

At the same time, I don't think GW owes any of us answers.  In many ways, GW wants this kind of situation: they sold their entire stock.  Which is what their advertising/hype and what they are in the business to do.  Certainly, they are probably kicking themselves for not producing more and leaving money on the table.  However, I can't imagine it is easy to gauge interest who knows how many months/years with the project was started.  It's not like GW knew the interest in their product would exceed their (often more limited ) production capability like it has for basically the past year.

Ultimately, outside some odd occurrences that GW certainly don't owe anyone outside the company any explanation, Cursed City has been an accelerated, but largely typical GW specialist game release.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Saturmorn Carvilli

[Clan's Cynic]

21 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

I am more confused by the fan/ex-fan response more than anything.  I didn't follow the new for Cursed City all that close, but I don't remember anywhere GW saying it was going to be a perennial product.  Quite the opposite in that I figured once it sold out that it would it just like literally dozens of other box sets and specialist game sets.  I also figured that due to the pandemic they might be less copies and/or demand would be way up compared to say when Blackstone Fortress came out. Which meant a very limited time window.

Every other (modern) Warhammer Quest had been in circulation for around a year at least. Hell, Blackstone Fortress actually went Temporarily Out of Stock around the Cursed City launch and is now back IN STOCK. The precedent that this would follow that pattern as a regular, or at least, yearly release was there. I think most people expected it might temporarily sell out ALA Be'lakor, but eventually find it's way back into circulation.

Oh, and there were literally statements from official GW social media accounts that it would be a regular product. You don't get much more confirmation than that. You wouldn't find those now because they scrubbed the internet of them, which is pretty indicative of them knowing they screwed up and trying to bury it - Grimnir bless the internet, for it never forgets.

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I sort of get it.  People weren't informed it was a one and done.  Which honestly, how often does GW state that without being prodded.

Pretty often, actually. I think just about every limited boxset has had multiple references to it being limited and that you "don't want to miss out!", especially on the Sunday prior's pre-order preview. The closest to that Cursed City had was with regards to the direct GW pre-order netting you the metal key, which they most definitely informed us would be limited.

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At the same time, I don't think GW owes any of us answers.

Calm down, Kirby.

Whilst they don't technically (or legally) owe us answers, it's obviously doing them no favours on the PR front. Remember that one of the most touted improvements people sing of GW is their better communication with their customer base. Even something as simple as a, "We apologise for the miscommunication that occurred, however Cursed City was a limited time blah blah bla" would've gone some small way to helping give people a bit of closure - there's still people confused about what the situation actually is. Instead it's radio silence, save for the stock replies people get from customer service with regard to any sold out product. 

When their big product preview stream chat is being drowned in demands for answers on Cursed City - more often than not people paying to say those things - there's a problem. 

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Cursed City has been an accelerated, but largely typical GW specialist game release.

Except as per the above, it hasn't been.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Doko]

39 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

but I don't remember anywhere GW saying it was going to be a perennial product.

Gw said in a facebook answer that was permanent as was old silver tower or necromunda etc.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

12 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Every other (modern) Warhammer Quest had been in circulation for around a year at least. Hell, Blackstone Fortress actually went Temporarily Out of Stock around the Cursed City launch and is now back IN STOCK. The precedent that this would follow that pattern as a regular, or at least, yearly release was there. I think most people expected it might temporarily sell out ALA Be'lakor, but eventually find it's way back into circulation.

Oh, and there were literally statements from official GW social media accounts that it would be a regular product. You don't get much more confirmation than that. You wouldn't find those now because they scrubbed the internet of them, which is pretty indicative of them knowing they screwed up and trying to bury it - Grimnir bless the internet, for it never forgets.

Were those other Warhammer Quests around due to multiple printings or slower sales? I think that is an important detail.

I have my doubts of about these official statements by GW if for no other reason my experience has been people get it in their head some GW product is going to be a certain way with absolutely no evidence of such a thing.  Then they get all mad that their mental fabrication didn't happen.  As I said, I didn't see all the news concerning Cursed City so it may have happened.  However, the internet's tract record has me not believing it until I get a screenshot of it prior to being 'scrubbed.'  Especial since my experience with literally every GW boxed set and specialist game has been a single printing that when it is gone it's gone.  The big difference being Cursed City went gone much faster than the others.

 

P.S. Calling me Kirby (as in Tom Kirby) is akin to calling me a GW white knight and is quite rude and is uncalled for.  I am already taking the unpopular position in this argument.  I don't need to be insulted.  Please don't do it again.

 

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

5 minutes ago, Doko said:

Gw said in a facebook answer that was permanent as was old silver tower or necromunda etc.

But Silver Tower wasn't permanent as it is not available for sale currently, is it?  Not sure when the Necromunda starter was released nor if it is still available.  If it is, do we know if it had a second run to maintain stock?  That's part of what I am getting at.  GW tends to make a single run and when it is gone that's it.  The big difference these days is that they don't have many days to purchase as they used to.  Super frustrating and I don't like it.  But hard to fault GW as it's tough to gauge interest.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Saturmorn Carvilli

[Clan's Cynic]

10 minutes ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

Were those other Warhammer Quests around due to multiple printings or slower sales? I think that is an important detail.

I have my doubts of about these official statements by GW if for no other reason my experience has been people get it in their head some GW product is going to be a certain way with absolutely no evidence of such a thing.  Then they get all mad that their mental fabrication didn't happen.  As I said, I didn't see all the news concerning Cursed City so it may have happened.  However, the internet's tract record has me not believing it until I get a screenshot of it prior to being 'scrubbed.'  Especial since my experience with literally every GW boxed set and specialist game has been a single printing that when it is gone it's gone.  The big difference being Cursed City went gone much faster than the others.

 

Blackstone Fortress went in and out of stock multiple times over the course of the year, most notably even after Cursed City was set for release. That doesn't strike me as them having loads of them gathering dust in a warehouse that they were just dying to get rid of.

As for that evidence...

Edited May 17, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

I hadn't seen that evidence.  Thank you.

[Chikout]

Try to keep the tone a little less abrasive please. I don't want to see this thread get locked as soon as it has started. 

It might be worth giving a little detail about what I know to be true about the situation. 

1- pre launch gw employees said on Facebook that the game would be a permanent item.

2- the game launched and sold out very quickly. 

3- gw stopped communicating with regular customers about the product and deleted earlier Facebook posts. 

4- they did communicate with third party retailers saying that they had no plans to do a reprint but that there would be a way to get some of those minis soon.

5 in recent weeks some third party retailers have had a small amount of additional stock. 

6 gw announced that  some of the Cursed City minis will go up for pre-order 

7 the physical edition of the novel is sold out but you can buy it digitally or get the audio version. 

8- there is cursed city content in the most recent white dwarf. 

9- expansions were planned as they are referenced in the rules. 

 

Speculation:

1.There was some kind of copyright claim but only for the game and not the book. 

2. There are shipping issues from China.

3. There are tax issues due to Brexit.

4. Components are more expensive due to covid.

5. Gw looked at the data and decided there wasn't enough actual demand to warrant a reprint. 

6 some combination of any or all of the above. 

7- expansions may have been cancelled. 

Regarding expansions, the first Blackstone fortress expansion was announced 3  months after the game came out, so if we dont hear anything by September, they will probably have been cancelled. Assuming that now is premature. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunshine]

Unfortunately the poll did not cover all of the bases so I could not vote.

As it was alluded to that it would be around for a while I was going to wait and pick it up at Christmas.

3 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

But Silver Tower wasn't permanent as it is not available for sale currently, is it?  Not sure when the Necromunda starter was released nor if it is still available.  If it is, do we know if it had a second run to maintain stock?  That's part of what I am getting at.  GW tends to make a single run and when it is gone that's it.  The big difference these days is that they don't have many days to purchase as they used to.  Super frustrating and I don't like it.  But hard to fault GW as it's tough to gauge interest.

It was stated that it will be around long term as per screenshots in an article here: 

https://spikeybits.com/2021/04/gw-has-erased-cursed-city-from-their-site-gone-for-good.html

You admitted you didn't follow the release but yet was confused by the fan response. I am not sure if you are trolling or trying to be antagonistic. The issue is Games Workshop informed people one thing and did the opposite.

 

[JackStreicher]

4 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

perennial product

They claimed two things: „Cursed City, like any other Warhammer Quest will be around for a while“

and

“Cursed City will be a Perfect start for a Soulblight Gravelords Army“

 

both claims have later been edited out of their WarCom posts, a practice they really like to use to make things seem like there was never anything wrong claimed.

[zilberfrid]

It was the first GW product that had me excited since Cities.

And they screwed up badly.

I don't think FOMO mongering is part of it, I don't think the community team intentionally lied. I even think deleting the statements that turn out to be untrue was a good idea, so people don't find information that is wrong.

Not giving any statements past one tweet that the previous statements were not true was a screwup.

It was just internal communication failure and a major screwup making them unwilling to make more.

Like the culling of 2019 where white knights stated GW wouldn't kill off almost 30 sets/warscrolls without communication, you have them running around now defending GW. In 2019 they intentionally hid their intentions by switching stock indications around (switching boxes from no longer available to temp out of stock until they finally sent the email when 90% was gone), in 2021 they haven't learned.

GW is a company that makes nice models.

For some ranges.

At too high a cost.

If you can get them.

They also make decent paints in bad pots at a bad value, write pulp that is sometimes enjoyable, and write rules, of which the AoS book release model isn't bad, but that is an exception (40k and Necromunda are awful).

Some people like that. I really struggle to see the value except them being big so you can find games. Which honestly is a big thing.

They seem to have improved in communication, but that is because it was so bad I don't really get how they stayed in business before.

I don't know if GW is going to release anything major that I consider worth the price in the next years. I'm not paying €25 for a single infantry sized model, no matter how good that model looks. Underworld isn't worth it anymore to me with almost 50% price increase, and I'm even busy making my own "sprues" of purchased STL's so the Necromunda sets start toblose value.

[Saï.Gonn]

I tried to buy it but i couldn't validate the last step to pay because the gw site was "ko". And it was sold out on others sites.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Saï.Gonn

[Kadeton]

3 hours ago, Chikout said:

Regarding expansions, the first Blackstone fortress expansion was announced 3  months after the game came out, so if we dont hear anything by September, they will probably have been cancelled. Assuming that now is premature.

Definitely shouldn't be assumed, but amongst all the other communication failures GW has had regarding Cursed City, the lack of certainty (either way) around future expansions is also an issue.

Personally, I expect that once they've sorted out whatever logistical issues interfered with their supply chain, they'll do a soft re-launch of Cursed City. This was supposed to be the "current edition" of the ongoing Warhammer Quest series. The lack of definite communication suggests that they're just stalling for time in the hope they can resolve the problems and get back on track. Whether or not the botched launch has "poisoned the well" of player enthusiasm for Cursed City and/or Warhammer Quest will be interesting to see.

My main disappointment was the "all or nothing" approach to bringing the undead half into AoS. Nobody wants 700+ points of random bits and pieces, they want to pick and choose the stuff they like. It's such a lazy, slap-dash solution to lump them all together.

[The World Tree]

Something very odd has happened with this. They would want to be selling it to you, not watching scalpers profit.

The way it has been 'disappeared' screams legal dispute to me. But who knows.

[RuneBrush]

15 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

My main disappointment was the "all or nothing" approach to bringing the undead half into AoS. Nobody wants 700+ points of random bits and pieces, they want to pick and choose the stuff they like. It's such a lazy, slap-dash solution to lump them all together.

We may find that it's an ideal size for the new Path to Glory.

2 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

The way it has been 'disappeared' screams legal dispute to me. But who knows.

GW's policy is that if something is going to be available for 6 months it gets taken off the website.  We see this happen fairly frequently with Forge World models.  I think if it were a massive legal issue then we'd also see the cursed city website be taken down too.

[JackStreicher]

37 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

The lack of definite communication suggests that they're just stalling for time in the hope they can resolve the problems and get back on track.

Tbh, I think this is the case. Bone of any other reasons I‘be read seems plausible to me.

[Matt Ceney-Pratt]

On Sunday when the they announced you could buy the models separately I though that might mean Cursed City will come back. Whatever issue that they have had it doesn't seem to be linked to making the models. I can see the argument for maybe this is it and away to appease the customers that didn't get hold of CC can now at least own the miniatures. My personal opinion is GW always had plans to distribute the models outside of CC as they was always going to be part of the battletome with valid points therefore, part of the range for Soulblight Gravelords. 

[Lazarine]

Talking to my local gaming shop, he was assigned 10 copies at launch, however, talking to GW he was informed at the time there would be a second print around 6 to 8 weeks later. A few days after the preorder weekend he received an email informing him that Cursed City was no longer available. I suspect there were plans for a reprint, but for some reason the game is no longer going to be produced. Releasing the models on their own is probably to allow GW to make back the money spent on the molds.

[RexHavoc]

None of the poll options apply to me, but for me its a case of:

Love the models. Would have loved to have brought it. Had no real interest in the game as-is, but would have used the boards, models and lore to play cursed city skirmish. I Didn't bother trying to buy it knowing that I'd have to either get up early and get my work done to be sat ready at 9:45am hitting refresh ready for the 9:55am sale, A practice I hate, not only does it make the site slower making it worse for all, but why would I want to waste my time like that. AND even then, should I managed to get it in to the basket and paid for, only for GW to not send anything for weeks (so you give them the benefit of the doubt as Covid/busy/stock issues anyway) only for me to go chasing them, wait another week for a reply, find out they oversold the item and withheld the entire order and ask me if I'd like the game removed & refunded so the rest of the order can be sent, I agree to it (annoyed that they didn't contact me) wait another week for them to email back again only to say another item has gone out of stock and repeat the process, finally get what ever is left of my original order and then still wait another full WEEK for them to refund me for the original game.

This has happened about 4 times in the past year and half and once to my misses back in November when she placed a huge order (and that wasn't even new stock- all old odds n ends from across the ranges) which we finally got sometime in February. I stopped collecting Black Library books because of it- I've dropped buying AoS books completely and I only intend to finish buying the last three HH books and I'll be done- I won't collect any new series after that. 

So I didn't bother ordering Cursed City, as much as I'd have loved to had those minis to put on a really cool, spooky Gothic skirmish campaign. If I can't buy a product at a time that suits me and not in an approximate 7 min window that GW decide on, then I've got no real interest in it any more. There are a hundred other companies out there that I can buy models from at what ever time or day of the week I want. This pre-ordering system of GW is archaic and quite honestly feels like a scam to me. Good models & games sell themselves, this hype-buy it quick-sold out-brought back piecemeal sales tactic of GW just feels scummy to me.

They could have easily have come and said something about it what happened with this game, even if was only a half hearted attempted to explain it. At least it would have let people have closure and either pay scalper prices (if they want it bad enough) or find a new game to focus on. All they've done is bring back a handful of the minis (which I have to assume will be vastly jacked up in price) which just makes the matter worse. If they even came clean and said it was meant to be a one time thing and list the minis that would be coming back, then at least we could plan to buy what we wanted 2nd hand or from places that still had stock etc.

As it is, they either they planned this (which would make sense- as these models from the game are in the new undead book) and had no intention of a reprint, which is awful or they had some issue and don't have the transparency to come clean that there is something really wrong with their stock or ability to make so much.

(Side note: I had the same problem with Shadow War as well and spent more time than I would have liked being shouted at by complete strangers thinking that this is an acceptable way to do business/these games are only ever meant to be one and done (even though they hyped shadow war up on the preview stream claiming it was going to be the new big game to go alongside 40k) or that it was a one off issue with stock as they didn't foresee demand etc. I see the exact same arguments now (only with added covid) for cursed city)

 

[EMMachine]

If we wouldn't have the Corona and Lockdown Situation, than I would most likely have been at my local GW store on Preorder day. Since this wasn't possible I hoped to get a german box with the store contingent. Time passed because the store was still closed because of lockdown, and when I heard of "Click & Collect" a asked about a box and got the answer that the store won't get any boxes most likely.

I basicly try to get my hand on anything lore releated I can to maintain my wiki (after all other authors aren't doing much), so not getting the box is a quite hard blow for me.

The thing why I don't order online is (paying online is the best way getting your money stolen by hackers, what can't happen if I pay cash, and I don't trust the Mail (their I some quite incompetent people working their not capable to read the name or adress correctly so I don't want to have any orders send by them where I have to prove that I don't get my Order)

 

Normally such boxed games had support for about 24-36 Month, where the coregame had to be available.

[Clan's Cynic]

4 hours ago, The World Tree said:

Something very odd has happened with this. They would want to be selling it to you, not watching scalpers profit.

The way it has been 'disappeared' screams legal dispute to me. But who knows.

I don't think GW especially care if scalpers get to them. Ultimately they're selling all their stock and getting all their money whether or not Scrooge McDuck gets a x1000 copies to scalp or x1000 individual Lil Timmy's and Tara's get them. Once it's sold it's out of their hands. Sure they put things like "Limited to 1 per order" but it's not like the major scalpers don't have bots ordering and sending them to the same address. FOMO is probably touted as a good thing by the guy/gal who gets to go into investor meetings and show how they get thousands of people spam F5'ing their webstores at 10am to buy their product because "it's so valuable to them."

The Pile of Shame is a real thing and I expect these days a sizeable portion of sales is people who buy limited products 'just in case' and then never touch them because they decided not to play that army/game in the end. Whilst there's always been people with horrendous impulse control who go 'all in' whenever the new shiny pops up, being told they can NEVER GET IT AGAIN UNLESS YOU BUY IT RIGHT NOW HOLY COW PILES(!!!) probably does a lot to tip many more people into clicking Buy.

If anything Cursed City has probably been a net positive to GW's sales in the short term, because combined with their lack of stock all around there's a great deal of paranoia surrounding whether or not X or Y is going to be a single-print run which is no doubt driving up a good deal of the above. Crimson Court sold out stupid fast and although Underworlds warbands have a two year life cycle (and you can still buy the models without cards after that) I do wonder how many people bought it out of fear it would be gone, who might bought it later down the line.

Indomitus was probably the exception because of how ridiculously popular Space Marines and 40k at large is and it was probably going to be too massive of a PR blunder to ignore, nevermind how many hundreds of thousand were bought (direct) by independent retailers alone. 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[EMMachine]

29 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I don't think GW especially care if scalpers get to them. Ultimately they're selling all their stock and getting all their money whether or not Scrooge McDuck gets a x1000 copies to scalp or x1000 individual Lil Timmy's and Tara's get them. Once it's sold it's out of their hands. Sure they put things like "Limited to 1 per order" but it's not like the major scalpers don't have bots ordering and sending them to the same address. FOMO is probably touted as a good thing by the guy/gal who gets to go into investor meetings and show how they get thousands of people spam F5'ing their webstores at 10am to buy their product because "it's so valuable to them."

The thing is scalpers and investors are basicly both parazides. The first are feeding from the community and that money is missing to buy more GW stuff. The second only care how much money they can squeeze out of GW, not really caring about the product or that they most likely destroy GW in the long run as long as they get their money.

In the end it is the community that has kept the company alive all the years and everytime something like Cursed City happens you hurt the community with it and with that get bad publicity.

They should really listen to the hand that feeds them instead of the parazides they are feeding.

[Saturmorn Carvilli]

5 hours ago, Sunshine said:

You admitted you didn't follow the release but yet was confused by the fan response. I am not sure if you are trolling or trying to be antagonistic. The issue is Games Workshop informed people one thing and did the opposite.

I did because I knew it was possible that indeed GW did say such statement with their social media accounts as they have said things that turned out to be not true before.  That said, I have seen there are far more voices out there that simply have an axe to grind with GW and will take every opportunity to attack.

I felt that I was simply debating on the side of that most box sets and specialist games tend to have a short shelf life (though not Cursed City short).  My experience concerning someone saying GW stated something to be true, but they can never find that statement is still like 9:1. Well, maybe less with the new Space Marine Combat Patrol which they say can make Incursors but show the easy-to-build Infiltrators (which can't).  I simply hadn't seen the evidence of GW's statements until this thread provided (as I wasn't going to searching for something I wasn't even sure existed myself).  It didn't get antagonistic until I was insulted by Clan's Cynic. And certainly wasn't trolling.

Cursed City has become a curious case.  I think in light the new evidence, I will still lean toward it being a one and done product, though there still are irregularities with that, and the social media team having the wrong information. That doesn't cover everything nicely so there very well may be other factors involved.  We probably won't be privy to that information to form a more concrete understanding of what happened thought.