Broken Realms: Be'lakor - SPOILER Discussion + Lore Summary

[GrimDork]

I’ve avoided this thread for fear of spoilers, but I’ve just finished reading BR:Belakor, so I thought I’d share some comments.

Firstly, just want to say how much I enjoyed it. The highlight for me was the takedown of the silver tower, it was epic!

The book felt like more of a direct continuation of plot lines started in BR:Morathi. The gaunt summoner, varanite, realm gates, even the Ven Brecht saviour reveal. I did really like BR:Teclis, but this felt more connected to the earlier book.
Also set up some interesting plot lines for the future, the vision of excelsis in ruin, the stormcast’s reforging issue, Gromthi.

As some have already mentioned, why did the Seraphon even get involved? The book says basically they couldn’t tolerate the gaunt summoner messing with realm gates so they had to stop him, allowing Belakor......to mess with realm gates!?!

Could Kroak not foresee that they were playing into Belakor’s hands?

Seemed a bit weak to me, but maybe more will be revealed in time.

Really looking forward to Kragnos!

[pnkdth]

2 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

Could Kroak not foresee that they were playing into Belakor’s hands?

Seemed a bit weak to me, but maybe more will be revealed in time.

The ability of foresight does not always mean you see what you need to see. Despite his wisdom he isn't infallible. I think that's the appeal of all this for me. The pantheon on AoS more akin to the gods of ancient Greece or the Aesir gods. They squabble and keep trying to earn their godhood and power. Belakor is one heck of a sneaky boi too.

Looking forwards to Kragnos too and where it'll take us!

[NinthMusketeer]

Yet it was Kroak who sent Gardus to Vindicarum so it wouldn't fall; he already knew about the storm, Be'Lakor's attack, and that Gardus would make the difference. It isn't clear who is playing who here.

Gromthi is probably Grungni; he doesn't act like Grombrindal's character does, and Be'Lakor actually feels fear on seeing him. Despite the battle for Vindicarum still being undecided Be'Lakor immediately flees the scene entirely. Grombrindal is a badass, but he isn't THAT badass. Be'Lakor also sees this entity as "returning" while Grombrindal hasn't been gone.

[Beliman]

10 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Yet it was Kroak who sent Gardus to Vindicarum so it wouldn't fall; he already knew about the storm, Be'Lakor's attack, and that Gardus would make the difference. It isn't clear who is playing who here.

Gromthi is probably Grungni; he doesn't act like Grombrindal's character does, and Be'Lakor actually feels fear on seeing him. Despite the battle for Vindicarum still being undecided Be'Lakor immediately flees the scene entirely. Grombrindal is a badass, but he isn't THAT badass. Be'Lakor also sees this entity as "returning" while Grombrindal hasn't been gone.

Disagree with the Grungni part.

Smoking his "old pipe", acting like a leader (even if he appeared from no-where and dressed as a random arkanaut), and then, disappearing as he never was there in the first place... he's batman! I mean Grombrindal!!

The only description of Gromthi without his Arkanaut helmet seems to aim for Grombrindal too: "an unruly crown of snowy hair. That's exactly the description of his haricut. And the book remembers the reader that he is old and experienced again and again... something that happens in the old Warhammer Fantasy books too.

The only things that holds me back are: Grungni seems to be the only one that can change size (in Spear of Shadows and in BR:Be'lakor books),  he carries a hammer that resembles a minner's pick (both are Grungni's tools) and Be'lakor speaks about a power "long lost", that fits better from Grungni than Grombrindal.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Beliman

[Charleston]

Can we have a recap for non-dwarven-affine players what is the major difference between Grungi and Grombrindal?

[Morglum StormBasha]

Arguments for Grombrindal 

1. oaken coloured skin 

2. white hair

3. in disguise and with a fake name 

4. Trying to help duardin remember what they’re culture should really be

5. the last 4 months of new David Guymer short stories in white dwarf all of which feature points 2-4.

arguments against

1. in every white dwarf short story regardless of his disguise he has his axe. In this he has his pick.

Other things to think about re Grungni is he was heavily featured in the Josh Reynolds Spear of Shadows black library novels, working behind the scenes in a Gandalf like way. I think but might recall this wrongly that there’s even a scene with Grungni and Grombrindal talking together in that novel. 

[Lord Panther]

6 hours ago, GrimDork said:

Could Kroak not foresee that they were playing into Belakor’s hands?

There was a little passage that said Be’lakor’s minions had destroyed an item that disrupted the Slanns ability to foresee events. 

[Kasper]

5 hours ago, GrimDork said:

I’ve avoided this thread for fear of spoilers, but I’ve just finished reading BR:Belakor, so I thought I’d share some comments.

Firstly, just want to say how much I enjoyed it. The highlight for me was the takedown of the silver tower, it was epic!

The book felt like more of a direct continuation of plot lines started in BR:Morathi. The gaunt summoner, varanite, realm gates, even the Ven Brecht saviour reveal. I did really like BR:Teclis, but this felt more connected to the earlier book.
Also set up some interesting plot lines for the future, the vision of excelsis in ruin, the stormcast’s reforging issue, Gromthi.

As some have already mentioned, why did the Seraphon even get involved? The book says basically they couldn’t tolerate the gaunt summoner messing with realm gates so they had to stop him, allowing Belakor......to mess with realm gates!?!

Could Kroak not foresee that they were playing into Belakor’s hands?

Seemed a bit weak to me, but maybe more will be revealed in time.

Really looking forward to Kragnos!

The Gaunt Summoner wasnt messing with Realm Gates but instead figuring out how to use veranite (or however it is spelled) so Archaon can march into Azyr without Stormcast souls returning.
 

It is also explained that Belakor messes with the Slanns foresight as one of the first things he does, so the Seraphon cant figure out his plans.
 

The reason Belakor retreats (I think) is because he already won. The city lies in ruins and Chamon is basically cut off from the rest of the realms, meaning they cant really get help/reinforcements. It is a tactical retreat - Why risk the Wrath of a God or whatever that Duradin is meant to be, when there is little to no gain in staying around?

My only gripe is that the book is leaving so many loose ends.. 

1) The cursed sky is spreading into other realms - Significant effect on Stormcast going forward 

2) Belakor basically got one of the Nine blown up, surely Archaon cant be happy about that

3) Be’lakors Daemons started killing Archaons/the “normal” god marked Daemons - Surely Archaon will be pissed off by this too

 

I want to know more about this Chaos story arc. How is Archaon gonna react? How are the Chaos Gods gonna react? Are they happy because of the mess Belakor did in Chamon, basically wiping out a couple of settlements etc? Are the Chaos Gods mad that Be’lakors Daemons turned on their “children”?

[Lord Panther]

I think it needs to be clarified that Chamon is not cut off. Be’lakor didn’t destroy all the realm gates, he targeted key gates that had been weakened by the Silver Tower explosion (‘Chain Reaction’ pg36). Collapsing a series of gates that were all close to where the Silver Tower exploded, created a maelstrom of chaos magic that “ soured the sky for miles”, “the light of the High Star, Sigendil, was smothered”. This is what prevented the Stormcast souls escaping. 

[Beliman]

On 4/25/2021 at 12:26 AM, Charleston said:

Can we have a recap for non-dwarven-affine players what is the major difference between Grungi and Grombrindal?

In AoS, Grungni is the head of the Ancestor-Gods. He taught how to process metals, build cities,... and all this kind of stuff. Because of that, he is called  "the Builder, Maker, Shaper of the Realms, Wondersmith, etc...". In the old lore (Fantasy), he was the God of metalwork, mining and all things related, and he carried a mining pick and his own hammer (that had a long name that I don't remember). From what we know, he can appear bigger or smaller than any normal dwarfs and has fiery ash-colored beard and mustache, but sometime can appear as a flaming silhouette. He was injured in the early age and some Chaos dudes call him the "Crippled God". 
 

Spoiler

In spear of shadows:

His Old Symbol:

 

Grombrindal is (was) a character that some people say (me included) he was a really Old Dwarf King  (Snorri Whitebeard), that in his last times, he made an oath to protect the whole dwarven race (in front of Malekit btw... but that's another story for another time). I think that it's not 100% confirmed (fellow dawies, correct me if I'm wrong!).
He appears  from nowhere, dressed as a random dwarf, smoking an old pipe and only when Dwarfs really need him (a big threat, battle or anything inbetween). He is old, reaaaaaaaaaaaally old (that's usually what the books try to illustrate). He swings the Axe of Grimnir... or so it seems (that's a bit strange because there are three "Axes of Grimnir" and sometimes he carries a two handed axe and others just an axe without runes, so, who knows...). In AoS, he had a little chat with Grungni and another time with Gotrek, so we know that he is still around.

Spoiler

AoS pic of Grombrindal:

Pic from Total War Warhammer (Old World):

An old world pic of him:

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Beliman
Grammar

[NinthMusketeer]

13 hours ago, Kasper said:

The Gaunt Summoner wasnt messing with Realm Gates but instead figuring out how to use veranite (or however it is spelled) so Archaon can march into Azyr without Stormcast souls returning.
 

It is also explained that Belakor messes with the Slanns foresight as one of the first things he does, so the Seraphon cant figure out his plans.
 

The reason Belakor retreats (I think) is because he already won. The city lies in ruins and Chamon is basically cut off from the rest of the realms, meaning they cant really get help/reinforcements. It is a tactical retreat - Why risk the Wrath of a God or whatever that Duradin is meant to be, when there is little to no gain in staying around?

My only gripe is that the book is leaving so many loose ends.. 

1) The cursed sky is spreading into other realms - Significant effect on Stormcast going forward 

2) Belakor basically got one of the Nine blown up, surely Archaon cant be happy about that

3) Be’lakors Daemons started killing Archaons/the “normal” god marked Daemons - Surely Archaon will be pissed off by this too

 

I want to know more about this Chaos story arc. How is Archaon gonna react? How are the Chaos Gods gonna react? Are they happy because of the mess Belakor did in Chamon, basically wiping out a couple of settlements etc? Are the Chaos Gods mad that Be’lakors Daemons turned on their “children”?

Be'Lakor specifically refers to it as a loss, and retreating because he wasn't going to stick around with that dward being there. The dark gods are laughing at him as he retreats for failing at the last second. Be'Lakor then considers all the success he has had despite the final failure, and how witnessing that being gives him useful knowledge. He definitely did not fall back because he already won.

And Chaos fights Chaos all the time. Like literally, it is a constant thing that has always happened and will always happen. Between the great game and standard mortal infighting Be'Lakor is noteworthy here but it isn't some unprecedented thing.

[HorticulusTGA]

As others have said, the book has a great pace to it. It's maybe my favorite from the series so far, and I was pleasantly surprised by both Morathi and Teclis. 

I'm glad he have confirmation it was Be'lakor ('s own agents) who freed Ven Brecht, and that his goal was indeed to target the Stormcast "Eternals" (as teased in the Eshin short story).

Interesting tidbits : Shadow daemons can work with him too (before they were only associated with Morathi and then Malerion). 

I'm glad, regarding MAPS, that we got several updated : we now know where Vindicarum is in Chamon, where the Genesis gate might me in Ghyran, as well as where Dolorum is (so close to Neferatia, maybe a bit strange...)

[cyrus]

19 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

As others have said, the book has a great pace to it. It's maybe my favorite from the series so far, and I was pleasantly surprised by both Morathi and Teclis. 

I'm glad he have confirmation it was Be'lakor ('s own agents) who freed Ven Brecht, and that his goal was indeed to target the Stormcast "Eternals" (as teased in the Eshin short story).

Regarding the eshin short story: is it something in the BR Belakor book that focus on eshin assassin and his task :" to destroy the impossible ...." ?

[HorticulusTGA]

1 hour ago, cyrus said:

Regarding the eshin short story: is it something in the BR Belakor book that focus on eshin assassin and his task :" to destroy the impossible ...." ?

Well, I thought the "impossible" was the Sigmarabulum "space forge" in Azyr, but it was a Silver Tower, aka a "space fortress". Equally great ! 

[cyrus]

52 minutes ago, HorticulusTGA said:

Well, I thought the "impossible" was the Sigmarabulum "space forge" in Azyr, but it was a Silver Tower, aka a "space fortress". Equally great ! 

But a skaven eshin assassin is actually featuring  in BR Belakor ? Or it is not mentioned?

I couldn't read the book.

[Lord Panther]

1 hour ago, cyrus said:

But a skaven eshin assassin is actually featuring  in BR Belakor ? Or it is not mentioned?

I couldn't read the book.

Yes, the assassin turns up and raids a second Silver Tower, setting a warpstone bomb off right in its nexus point of paths to the chaos realm and realmgates. It possibly kills another Gaunt Summoner but also destabilises the astromatrix further, the ripples spreading out helping with Be'lakor's big swirly chaos magic cloud. The second Silver Tower is not destroyed outright.

[Marius au]

Enjoyed this one, probably not as much as Morathi but more than Teclis.

In the White Dwarf (current one) the campagin is for the first legion to destroy the Eye of Tepok a Seraphon scrying device.  Presumably this is what prevents the Slaan from seeing what he is up to.

I like the participation of the dwarves, although in 3 books the absence of destruction has been interesting.  

Keen for the next in the series.

[NinthMusketeer]

Well, we know via Kroak that Destruction will break into Excelsius, and considering the horde Gordrakk has heading that way it could get wiped off the map entirely.

[shadowseer42]

Well, i wonder if Olynder packs collected Stormcast <sigmar-empowered-noble> souls and feeds them to weakened Nagash to restore his power in some way.

 

[Clan's Cynic]

Having read through it, I definitely think it was Grombindal who assisted the Kharadron and not Grungi. On reflection, quite a few people - Dawi and otherwise - have interacted with Grungi and he's a known, active entity within the world. Visually, Grungi's visage is all over the place - even the Kharadron slap his likeness here, there and everywhere despite few revering him whilst people only instinctively know they should listen to Gromthi without really understanding why. Most notably, literally nobody but Be'lakor seem to recognise him - you'd think the Stormcast at least would know the chap most responsible (after Sigmar) for creating them and their equipment.

Be'lakor also reacts with genuine surprise at realising who he is and refers to him as 'the whitebeard', which is a term used pretty much every scene he appears in to describe him.

Gromthi also refers to the Duardin as 'Dawi' whilst Grungi's always been more fatherly and stuck to the AoS-only terms. 

As for Dawi-unity, the final exchange between Gromthi and Humboldsson ends on a sour note wherein it's made apparent the Kharadron only got involved because not doing so would wreck their profits and expect reward by way of further trade/mining-rights with Gromthi vanishing after expressing his dismay they didn't learn anything. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Clan's Cynic

[Lord Panther]

I tend to agree with you @Clan's Cynic. The are far too many uses of the word ‘white’ in describing him to be a coincidence. 

[Skreech Verminking]

I sadly haven’t read the book yet,

but....

 

..considering...

 

...that there are no mentions about the most deceiving and backstabbing faction of them all (skaven if you don’t get it) ,

I am not missing out on anything.

 

 

[KingBrodd]

What a ride!! By far my favourite of the BR so far. The Siege of Vindicarum was amazing and such a set piece. I loved it. 

The White Dwarf returning, Stormcast in Chamon and potentially other Realms no longer being able to reforge due to the Storm. Lord Kroak wreaking a Silver Tower and most importantly of all Gardus seeing Excelsis FALLING due to Orruks and Gargants. 

It would seem then that Anvilguard has been taken and become Har Kuron, Vindicarum has been left broken but survived and Excelsis is set to be utterly destroyed. 

[cofaxest]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:06 PM, Clan&#x27;s Cynic said:

Having read through it, I definitely think it was Grombindal who assisted the Kharadron and not Grungi. On reflection, quite a few people - Dawi and otherwise - have interacted with Grungi and he's a known, active entity within the world. Visually, Grungi's visage is all over the place - even the Kharadron slap his likeness here, there and everywhere despite few revering him whilst people only instinctively know they should listen to Gromthi without really understanding why. Most notably, literally nobody but Be'lakor seem to recognise him - you'd think the Stormcast at least would know the chap most responsible (after Sigmar) for creating them and their equipment.

Be'lakor also reacts with genuine surprise at realising who he is and refers to him as 'the whitebeard', which is a term used pretty much every scene he appears in to describe him.

Gromthi also refers to the Duardin as 'Dawi' whilst Grungi's always been more fatherly and stuck to the AoS-only terms. 

As for Dawi-unity, the final exchange between Gromthi and Humboldsson ends on a sour note wherein it's made apparent the Kharadron only got involved because not doing so would wreck their profits and expect reward by way of further trade/mining-rights with Gromthi vanishing after expressing his dismay they didn't learn anything. 

It's still doesn't explain why Be'lakor feared him and why he can change his size. Plus Grungni also knows for his appearance as a white beard dwarf. I think that Grombridal is connected directly to Grungni and have portion of his powers during the final battle. 

[darkdark25]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

It's still doesn't explain why Be'lakor feared him and why he can change his size. Plus Grungni also knows for his appearance as a white beard dwarf. I think that Grombridal is connected directly to Grungni and have portion of his powers during the final battle. 

In one the newest White Dwarf magazine (April issue if I'm not mistaken), Grombridal as the Wanderer fights Morathi in her snake form and in the fight he changes sizes to match her.