Whitefang Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said: (like Chaos always being intended to win) This is a lie. Do they want to give people the impression that the victory of Chaos is inevitable? Yes Do they want Chaos to actually win from the very start? That's an absolute no, otherwise, the Strom of Chaos arc would not have happened before the retcon. The story of AOS will also become meaningless. The victory of Chaos, aka End Times, happened purely because of corporate reasons. Edited January 2 by Whitefang 5 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taerg Ad Ywons Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, sandlemad said: Looks like if you built the foot knights with sword and board, you could use the two-handed axes with the knights of the realm kit for some slightly non-traditional questing knights. They wouldn't be as good as the brilliant metal 6th ed. questing knights, which might have been the most characterful minis in the range, but very doable and a lot cheaper. Hell, using the sword and board bits from the foot knights would make for good enough grail knight proxies. Not a patch on the metal ones, but definitely would be a hell of a lot cheaper (and avoids having to use metal, for those folks who don't like the material). As for Chaos winning, it was always described to me as an encroaching, death by a thousand cuts win. Every invasion would be pushed back a little less, the taint of chaos would creep further in, the wilds would become more dangerous through remnants and emboldened beastmen. Edit: 100% agree on end times being a corporate thing. This was the Kirby 'jewel-like wonder' era of things. It's also been almost twelve years since they redid the paint line and I still miss some of the paints. Vallejo does wonders (as do many other brands) but yeah. Edited January 2 by Taerg Ad Ywons 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Yeah. The end times was an insane business decision... With insane plans. Lucky the backslash was so big they rethinked there plans and made AoS an actual good game instead of the extreme minimal effort they were planning to do first... . And turned the disaster that was released after the end times in a succes. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattT Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) On 12/30/2023 at 12:14 PM, Tonhel said: AoS is a nice game with fantastic mini's. But the background does not much for us. The interactive map for TOW feels already more immersive and attractive than everthing AoS offered with all there realms and bizar stuff. Sums it up very well. AoS is just a plethora of colorless "realms" or "planes", whatever that is. It has zero recognition. Old World is pseudo Earth (mostly Europe), but very recognizable and thus with an emotional attachment. "It´s Arthurian Knights in a faux-France? Cool!" What else do you need? 😉 Edited January 2 by MattT 6 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Firaun Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Noserenda said: Quick answer before i break down "defensive" but the good v evil stupidity is a key symptom of it, i had written it off as yet another weird need to justify why they grouped forces like they did, becuase they could have just called them "Defenders and Invaders" and it wouldnt have gotten peoples backs up, but now theyve doubled down on their ****** weak reasoning for some reason in this article rather than moving on. Like, the Bretonnians are vastly more evil than the tomb kings (who are lets remember all victims of Nagash, not skeletons by choice) in how they treat their people and the Wood elves slaughter almost anyone foolish enough to come near them, mess with the Bretonnians religion and sometimes just ride out to do a bunch of murders for lols. And thats just the low hanging fruit! The Border Princes all build their castles on generations of corpses Historically throughout all of the lore I can find on The Tomb Kings, since Nagash doomed them to their half life they’ve largely kept to themselves….. until some idiot not-European comes traipsing into their tombs looking for something shiny. Did they keep slaves in life? Yeah, but so did half the of the humans factions in game (they just called them something else). the only legitimately evil Tomb Kings characters are Nagash (supreme lord of **** moves), Arkhan (a decent guy but loyal to his boss), Apophas the Scarab Prince (murdered his entire family for no reason), and Neferata and her court (created vampirism). I suppose we could count Settra as evil for invading the border princes…. If they didn’t include the fact that someone stole from him first!!!! Meanwhile, the Bretonnians are a mix of every medieval French stereotype, Arthurian Legend, and generic fairy tale myths combined. I’d call them a potshot at Medieval England as well, but since Albion exists as a rain drenched land of Celts and giants that’s just not the case. Plus, they worship a poorly disguised elf goddess, so that’s a big “L” in this dwarf adjacent man’s book. 35 minutes ago, Whitefang said: This is a lie. Do they want to give people the impression that the victory of Chaos is inevitable? Yes Do they want Chaos to actually win from the very start? That's an absolute no, otherwise, the Strom of Chaos arc would not have happened before the retcon. The story of AOS will also become meaningless. The victory of Chaos, aka End Times, happened purely because of corporate reasons. From the mouth of @Whitefang to our eyes and ears everyone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I hope they made a whole bunch of Necrosphinxes, cuz at $75 each that's absurdly good! I might get 2; 1 to make into a pharoah-ish megagargant and call him Nephren-Ka. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I'd quite forgotten what a lovely bit of kit that Necrosphinx is. I'm tempted to get one just to paint up for the joy of it (I've got a good technique for marble all ready to go!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 The Necrosphinx is amazeballs, im honestly surprised they canned it with the rest originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, Whitefang said: This is a lie. Do they want to give people the impression that the victory of Chaos is inevitable? Yes Do they want Chaos to actually win from the very start? That's an absolute no, otherwise, the Strom of Chaos arc would not have happened before the retcon. The story of AOS will also become meaningless. The victory of Chaos, aka End Times, happened purely because of corporate reasons. Isn't this true for pretty much every large decision GW makes though? Starting with Tomb Kings Vs Bretonnia is surely a corporate choice both to play on nostalgia and to avoid overlap with AoS. Assuming it's true that Skaven are the 4th edition army for AoS, having them not appear in The Old World seems like another corporate choice rather than a strictly narrative one. The famous example is the Horus Heresy being dreamed up so they could have both sides of the Adeptus Titanicus box be the same. You're absolutely right to call this out as corporate spin, I just felt it was worth pointing out that pretty much every community article is doing the same thing. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 51 minutes ago, Chikout said: Isn't this true for pretty much every large decision GW makes though? Starting with Tomb Kings Vs Bretonnia is surely a corporate choice both to play on nostalgia and to avoid overlap with AoS. It seems so. I mean, in terms of the lore, Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia isn't the most logical combination. The story is either Bretonnians going on a very long crusade to Khemri (why? Not sure) or the Tomb Kings making the journey to Bretonnia for revenge. Not a lot of narrative hooks, compared to, say, the Empire vs Orcs and Goblins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I'm waiting till I get my hands on the actual books, why they decided to double down on the "Good" v "Evil" descriptors I do not know, seems completely unnecessary. They have the factions split into Ravening Hordes and Armies of Fantasy. That's enough. Warhammer is quintessentially "No Good Guys". Following along but some really strange decisions in terms of how they are approaching things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, Whitefang said: The victory of Chaos, aka End Times, happened purely because of corporate reasons. And this several ex employees explained in more detail. That blatant lie left a bitter taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, Tonhel said: The end times was an insane business decision... The funny thing is that the end times sold very well - turns out new and redone models sell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 28 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: The funny thing is that the end times sold very well - turns out new and redone models sell Even if some didn't like the outcome, as campaign it was, IMO, the peak for WHF. It's an awesome, long, well-rounded campaign with its equivalence in really nice miniatures. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Kim Woof-Woof Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 10 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Even if some didn't like the outcome, as campaign it was, IMO, the peak for WHF. It's an awesome, long, well-rounded campaign with its equivalence in really nice miniatures. I agree. They could have just abandoned the whole setting and moved on. Or retconned the whole thing. Instead we got something that was faithful to the established background, and everyone's old favourites got to make a curtain call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 39 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: The funny thing is that the end times sold very well - turns out new and redone models sell Yeah, I bought all the hard covers. People were excited. The ending was just a huge anti-climax and if I remember correctly GW was also silent for a couple of months after they ended their Warhammer game. Than AoS came with minimal rules, no points, no real armylists. But since AoS 2 and certainly AoS3 it started to become a good game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Tonhel said: Yeah, I bought all the hard covers. People were excited. The ending was just a huge anti-climax and if I remember correctly GW was also silent for a couple of months after they ended their Warhammer game. Than AoS came with minimal rules, no points, no real armylists. But since AoS 2 and certainly AoS3 it started to become a good game. Those hard-cover ones have one of the pretties cover art for the whole warhammer. I would love that approach for some AoS books. Btw, I ended up ordering the Bretonia box 😅 I hope this supports the game, and I plan to sell everything apart from the Pegasus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 43 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: Even if some didn't like the outcome, as campaign it was, IMO, the peak for WHF. It's an awesome, long, well-rounded campaign with its equivalence in really nice miniatures. I agree. I enjoyed End Times battles a lot. It was a real bummer they ended the Setting like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 8 hours ago, MattT said: "It´s Arthurian Knights in a faux-France? Cool!" What else do you need? Watch out with that type of question. Some answers will exactly be the oppositine of what you think! 3 hours ago, Chikout said: Isn't this true for pretty much every large decision GW makes though? That's my perspective too. At least, that's what I take from Tuomas Pirinen series and Jordan&Sorcery channel. The change from the red-era to more grimdark tone, the whole Storm of Chaos campaign (and retcon), the whole End Times, the AoS racial names, etc... Sometimes it's just a concept made by a designer (Mordheim grimdark designs), sometimes it's because corpo doens't like what happened (Storm of Chaos), and sometimes it's because they have a fixe'd goal (End Times). But the main decision that says "yep, go with it, you have 6 months to accomplish that" will always come from the executive people. Edited January 3 by Beliman 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollow Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) I have said it before, but I really liked the concept of The End Times. Makes perfect sense to me that the world would eventually end (just as ours will) and people/factions actually died (just as we all will) As a fan of fantasy like Game Of Thrones, I have no problem with death, it's a fundamental part of life and stories without it lack something IMO. I also think it's peak grimdark-Warhammer for the world to be consumed by Chaos. The following evolution into the Mortal Realms over aeons, (with some familiar souls and concepts) has worked well, I just wish we would see as much detail and TLC given to the realms as a setting as ToW has received. Edited January 3 by Hollow 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyRyan Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 On 1/2/2024 at 1:07 PM, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: I shudder to think what Aussie prices are going to look like... I always shudder to think of Aussie prices… bless Mperor.cc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Grimm Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Ok people time for something else - who do we think Sir Cecil Gastonne, the Wyrm Slayer is? Do we think he'll just be a named Peg Lord Character, a named classic miniature model brought back or can we dare hope for an entirely new mini? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morathi is my Goddess Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 On 1/2/2024 at 2:07 PM, Big Kim Woof-Woof said: I shudder to think what Aussie prices are going to look like... It's pretty disgusting. I was very keen to start Tomb Kings but won't be at these prices. Will use my dark elves to play Old World instead. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Sir Grimm said: Ok people time for something else - who do we think Sir Cecil Gastonne, the Wyrm Slayer is? Do we think he'll just be a named Peg Lord Character, a named classic miniature model brought back or can we dare hope for an entirely new mini? I highly doubt we will have more new miniatures anytime soon. From the warcom posts I saw Duke Gastille, the Red Hand of Brionne on one of his first introductory posts using the classic mini where the rider has a falcon. Old World Development Diary – On Bases and the Barons of Bretonnia - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) So if we follow that pattern I would say we would have him using some sort of classic mini. The other option would be one of the three builds that the new pegasus lord has: Warhammer Day Preview – The Kingdom of Bretonnia Revealed - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) Imo it would be represented by this last one. All of the above would leave us well covered in terms of representing him. EDIT: Just checking again, look at the heraldry that he is using in the picture. It is clear to me now. Edited January 3 by Ejecutor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 minutes ago, Morathi is my Goddess said: It's pretty disgusting. I was very keen to start Tomb Kings but won't be at these prices. Will use my dark elves to play Old World instead. I was looking at a video that analysed the prices and compared them with the old WHFB boxes and the conclusion was that the big boxes are worth and are even cheaper than the old boxes were, but single boxes. Meeeeh. Price skyrocketing detected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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