AoS 2 Cities of Sigmar Discussion: Hallowheart

[stratigo]

1 hour ago, themortalgod said:

As a way to bring back guard models? I'm concerned about that being turned against me since it will be so close to enemy units as well. 

You’re hallowheart. Dispel it after use if needed. But also it is there for healing your self mutilations and incidental damage on your wizards. Since it is aoe healing, it is more flexible than the healing spell, and you can double it up. I guarantee your hurricanes will be taking a lot of damage and you want to be able to cut yourself for better spellcasting. 

[themortalgod]

29 minutes ago, stratigo said:

You’re hallowheart. Dispel it after use if needed. But also it is there for healing your self mutilations and incidental damage on your wizards. Since it is aoe healing, it is more flexible than the healing spell, and you can double it up. I guarantee your hurricanes will be taking a lot of damage and you want to be able to cut yourself for better spellcasting. 

It isn't AOE, you only get to heal 1 unit it moved over and I will never be able to cast it and then unbind it before there is a chance my opponent has a chance to make use of it as there will always be a battleround shift before the start of my next hero phase when I can unbind. I doubt I will need to cut myself much for better spellcasting since I will be at +d6+1 to cast already.  I mean I can see there is value but it is expensive at 50pts, esp given how easily it can be turned against me.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

@themortalgod

how many leaders are you taking? Isn’t 6 the max at 2k?

i count 5+ including the white fire retinue, unless those wizards don’t count

[themortalgod]

31 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

@themortalgod

how many leaders are you taking? Isn’t 6 the max at 2k?

i count 5+ including the white fire retinue, unless those wizards don’t count

I have 5 leaders total, thats it. 4 of which are in the retinue.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

1 hour ago, themortalgod said:

I have 5 leaders total, thats it. 4 of which are in the retinue.

Nomad, sorc on BD, 3x sorc. = 5 leaders, then your paying for more hero wizards in the battalion.

so unless I’m not understanding, it looks like you’re paying twice for the and stuff?

I just want to understand so I can work on my list. I see the battalion as your paying for min/max on the wizards, which come at a great discount. They also contribute to your “leader” allotment (which would be awesome if that’s not right)

Edited October 9, 2019 by Mandzak-Miniatures

[themortalgod]

34 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

Nomad, sorc on BD, 3x sorc. = 5 leaders, then your paying for more hero wizards in the battalion.

so unless I’m not understanding, it looks like you’re paying twice for the and stuff?

I just want to understand so I can work on my list. I see the battalion as your paying for min/max on the wizards, which come at a great discount. They also contribute to your “leader” allotment (which would be awesome if that’s not right)

The list only has 5 hero models. The Nomad and the 4 Sorcs. The 4 Sorcs make up the requirements of the battalion (3-6 hero wizards). There is no discount though? I'm not sure what you are suggesting with that? 

Edited October 9, 2019 by themortalgod

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

10 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

The list only has 5 hero models. The Nomad and the 4 Sorcs. The 4 Sorcs make up the requirements of the battalion (3-6 hero wizards). There is no discount though? I'm not sure what you are suggesting with that? 

So you’re paying 90pts for 4x sorc (one is on a dragon) and then another 140pt for them to be whitefire retinue? 

I thoughth the point of battalions was that you bought into it, the price of it includes that you take the models with it, not that it is a tax on top of what you normally pay for 

[themortalgod]

1 minute ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

So you’re paying 90pts for 4x sorc (one is on a dragon) and then another 140pt for them to be whitefire retinue? 

I thoughth the point of battalions was that you bought into it, the price of it includes that you take the models with it, not that it is a tax on top of what you normally pay for 

Oh I see your confusion now. No, the battalion does not include the units listed within it. Those are requirements for the battalion. The 140pts is the cost to unlock the special rules of the battalion and it also includes an additional artifact and command point. You still must include the battalion’s requirements (in this case 3-6 hero wizards) in your list and pay for them as normal.

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

So you’re paying 90pts for 4x sorc (one is on a dragon) and then another 140pt for them to be whitefire retinue? 

I thoughth the point of battalions was that you bought into it, the price of it includes that you take the models with it, not that it is a tax on top of what you normally pay for 

That would be broken, the Hammerhal one can go to 4420 points without the cost of the batallion.

With the batallion, you get an extra command point (worth 50 points), extra artifact (arguably worth more) and a bonus to the units. That is quite good on its own.

[XReN]

9 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

So you’re paying 90pts for 4x sorc (one is on a dragon) and then another 140pt for them to be whitefire retinue? 

I thoughth the point of battalions was that you bought into it, the price of it includes that you take the models with it, not that it is a tax on top of what you normally pay for 

That would have been hillarious, "Oh boy here are my 13 000 points of Stormcast shoved into mega-battalions, have fun playing against that with yo 2 000 points list"
It is actually specified in the GHB's Matched Play section that battalion cost is only the cost of battalion's benefits and not the units.

Edited October 9, 2019 by XReN

[Bigscaryflorister]

Played my first game last night with this 

Anointed of flamespyre (Pauldrones of flame)

hurricanum & mage (ignaxs scales)

2 battlemages (life and metal)

Anointed on foot (spellhunter)

30 Phoenix guard

2x10 Phoenix guard

10 shadow warriors

ravenacks jaws

spell portal

lifeswarm

 

had the white fire battalion, but averaging +cast from the ca it seemed a little excessive to have +6... unbundling may well be better! 

Gaurd hitting on twos from the hurricanum and rerolling wounds was absolutely amazing... averaging 56 rend 1 wounds! Brought ten back, so worth the points for lifeswarm. This was dispelled after casting!

Bird is awesome for charging in and wrecking what’s the spells haven’t, and doing more at the end of combat. 

Ravenaks was amazing for 30 points! 12”+d6 is pretty beast. 

elemental cyclone. Oh boy: spell portal and cast makes that an absolute beast against blocks of elites and hordes! 

[mikethefish]

1 hour ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

2 battlemages (life and metal)

Why a Life mage?  Their native spell seems very lackluster.

[Gwendar]

@Bigscaryflorister I like it.. Been wanting to do almost the same thing but planned to bring along an Incantor + Comet. Though I think would pick Ulgu, Ghur or Chamon over any of the other options (no Azyr since the Hurricanum has that covered).

How did the Shadow Warriors treat you? I'm trying to decide if that Incantor + Comet is worth the 240 points that I  could throw in elsewhere. I would think having even 2x10 Shadow Warriors as a late game threat could be more useful.

[Izotzuhure]

3 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

@Bigscaryflorister I like it.. Been wanting to do almost the same thing but planned to bring along an Incantor + Comet. Though I think would pick Ulgu, Ghur or Chamon over any of the other options (no Azyr since the Hurricanum has that covered).

How did the Shadow Warriors treat you? I'm trying to decide if that Incantor + Comet is worth the 240 points that I  could throw in elsewhere. I would think having even 2x10 Shadow Warriors as a late game threat could be more useful.

If all you want is unlock the comet, you could always use the Lord Exorcist and save 20 points to squeeze something else in. Their own spell is meh, but you will be casting the comet + something else/dispelling it. 

[Gwendar]

2 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

If all you want is unlock the comet, you could always use the Lord Exorcist and save 20 points to squeeze something else in. Their own spell is meh, but you will be casting the comet + something else/dispelling it. 

20 points isn't enough to really do anything with since it would be sitting right at 2k. I would be more inclined to throw in an Arcanum for 20 points more because his empowered Arcane Bolt and -1 to hit spell would be more useful.. but again, the main point is likely to dispell + recast which will take up both spell-casts no matter who does it; there may be situations in which those other 2 spells are more beneficial at any given time than a comet. Regardless that would put me 20 over and I would have to drop something, either 10 PG or Lifeswarm and neither option would be worth it.

I'm just really curious about the Comet threat vs. 2x10 Shadow Warrior threat for about the same price.

[Maturin]

4 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I'm just really curious about the Comet threat vs. 2x10 Shadow Warrior threat for about the same price.

Well, if you roll go second, roll high on your comet, then throw a good damage spell from the lore with portal, by the start of the second round of battle, his 5/6 wounds heroes should be dead, thus crippling his plan. I ran my Celestant prime as an assassin for just that reason, two rounds of 3W on packed heroes : game over for my opponent. Incantor + Comet is actually 100 points cheaper than Prime without the certainty to do 3MW but, comet is active at the start of the second round and if you went second and placed it well, your opponent can't do ****** but take the MWs

[Gwendar]

@Maturin Right, I suppose it's 2 different strategies in the end; One gives you board control and late game threat (of course, dropping 20 Shadow Warriors down somewhere right away could also be solid, depending) while the other is early game threat. Have a few people planning to run Hallowheart locally and I imagine they will be taking the same type of setup with the comet so.. that will be interesting to compete against.

[themortalgod]

Update to my list, any feedback would be further ver much appreciated:

 

Sorceress on Dragon - 300 - Ignax Scales, Crystal Aegis, Sear Wounds

Sorceress - 90 - General, Warden of the Flame, Agloraxi Prism, Sear Wounds, Warding Band

Sorceress - 90 - Warding Band, Ignite Weapons

Battle Mage - 90 - Azyr, Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

20x Black Guard - 280

20x Black guard - 280

20x Eternal Guard - 260

10x Eternal Guard - 130

5x Sisters of the Thorn - 130 -  Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

Whitefire Retinue - 140

Spellportal - 70

Quicksilver Swords - 30

Geminids - 60

Balewind Vortex - 50

Total: 2000pts

 

The changed list is basically looking to introduce a lot of long range spellpower so that on turn one I can be causing havoc in the enemy lines. I also feel that the focus on long range allows me to keep all my wizards in a clump while not having to worry about their threat being limited to only an 18" bubble.

- Spellportal will let me either dump a Cyclone or a Bladewind on any target I want depending on the situation. (It also lets me position the casting wizards outside 30" to deny unbinding)

- I can put the Battlemage up on the Vortex to cast both Chain Lightning AND Roaming Wildfire at 24" range. 

- Geminids and Swords have great range baseline.

[mmimzie]

Really good combo i just figured out, and i think we might have all skimmed it abit because the endless spell became a joke after the FAQ. Also, maaaaybe some one said it some where else, but it seems so powerful, and it not being in everyones list despite most list having maybe 2 of these pieces seems goofy. 

The combo is:
Sisters of the thorn
Purple sun of Shyish
Lauchon the soulseeker

Now of course it needs another wizard to help you set this up, but likely you'll have one in hollow heart. Not counting that other wizards hand in helping you set this up the combo cost 240 points. Same as the comet. Most importantly it lets you drop the purple sun turn 1. As the sisters is multiple models and thus can lose a model to get into range during the hero phase.

Depending on how the rules work kinda changes how close your caster can get.  Either you can stretch the unit back into the hollowheart casting bonus aura and the actual caster up close >9"  letting you set up the sun such that it rolls through most of your opponents army. Otherwise you use your long base to put a toe into the hollow heart aura and use your longer base to angle as close to your target location as possible.  Either way the 12" move of the purple sun should have you hitting several units. 

More over this combo gets you a decent universal spell for moving your shooting units, and your charge bonus aided melee units. 

With this you can take:

Luminark/Purple sun/comet/ Chain lighting+roaming fire bale wind/Umbral spell portal + (wizard of choice) spell in a single list and do devastating turn 1 damage. 

 

[KK9T]

5 hours ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

Played my first game last night with this 

Anointed of flamespyre (Pauldrones of flame)

hurricanum & mage (ignaxs scales)

2 battlemages (life and metal)

Anointed on foot (spellhunter)

30 Phoenix guard

2x10 Phoenix guard

10 shadow warriors

ravenacks jaws

spell portal

lifeswarm

 

had the white fire battalion, but averaging +cast from the ca it seemed a little excessive to have +6... unbundling may well be better! 

Gaurd hitting on twos from the hurricanum and rerolling wounds was absolutely amazing... averaging 56 rend 1 wounds! Brought ten back, so worth the points for lifeswarm. This was dispelled after casting!

Bird is awesome for charging in and wrecking what’s the spells haven’t, and doing more at the end of combat. 

Ravenaks was amazing for 30 points! 12”+d6 is pretty beast. 

elemental cyclone. Oh boy: spell portal and cast makes that an absolute beast against blocks of elites and hordes! 

I like this list. It's similar to what I had planned.

[Chumphammer]

Was playing around with the app and came up with this:

 

Hallowheart:
Anointed (general)
Battle Mage (Adjutant, Ignax’ scales, Sear wounds, Crystal Aegis)
Battle Mage (Ignite Weapons, Warding Brand)
Battle Mage (Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone)
Hag Queen

30 Phoenix Guard
10 Phoenix Guard
10 Phoenix Guard (Retinue)
30 Sisters of Slaughter (Bucklers)

10 Shadow Warriors
10 Shadow Warriors
3 Gyrocopters

Purple Sun of Shyish
Emerald Lifeswarm

Gives me 2 big blocks which are immune to battleshock and rerolls to wound. sos to give the 6 inch pile in when needed over charge.

Two small units of PG to support or hold obj

Lots of magic support, purple sun when closer and can do some damage, lifeswarm to keep those annoying PG coming back

Shadow warriors to take down obj or solo heroes

Gyrocopters to help clear vs big blocks 

[Bigscaryflorister]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Really good combo i just figured out, and i think we might have all skimmed it abit because the endless spell became a joke after the FAQ. Also, maaaaybe some one said it some where else, but it seems so powerful, and it not being in everyones list despite most list having maybe 2 of these pieces seems goofy. 

The combo is:
Sisters of the thorn
Purple sun of Shyish
Lauchon the soulseeker

Now of course it needs another wizard to help you set this up, but likely you'll have one in hollow heart. Not counting that other wizards hand in helping you set this up the combo cost 240 points. Same as the comet. Most importantly it lets you drop the purple sun turn 1. As the sisters is multiple models and thus can lose a model to get into range during the hero phase.

Depending on how the rules work kinda changes how close your caster can get.  Either you can stretch the unit back into the hollowheart casting bonus aura and the actual caster up close >9"  letting you set up the sun such that it rolls through most of your opponents army. Otherwise you use your long base to put a toe into the hollow heart aura and use your longer base to angle as close to your target location as possible.  Either way the 12" move of the purple sun should have you hitting several units. 

More over this combo gets you a decent universal spell for moving your shooting units, and your charge bonus aided melee units. 

With this you can take:

Luminark/Purple sun/comet/ Chain lighting+roaming fire bale wind/Umbral spell portal + (wizard of choice) spell in a single list and do devastating turn 1 damage. 

 

Has there been an faq already?! 

[themortalgod]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Really good combo i just figured out, and i think we might have all skimmed it abit because the endless spell became a joke after the FAQ. Also, maaaaybe some one said it some where else, but it seems so powerful, and it not being in everyones list despite most list having maybe 2 of these pieces seems goofy. 

The combo is:
Sisters of the thorn
Purple sun of Shyish
Lauchon the soulseeker

Now of course it needs another wizard to help you set this up, but likely you'll have one in hollow heart. Not counting that other wizards hand in helping you set this up the combo cost 240 points. Same as the comet. Most importantly it lets you drop the purple sun turn 1. As the sisters is multiple models and thus can lose a model to get into range during the hero phase.

Depending on how the rules work kinda changes how close your caster can get.  Either you can stretch the unit back into the hollowheart casting bonus aura and the actual caster up close >9"  letting you set up the sun such that it rolls through most of your opponents army. Otherwise you use your long base to put a toe into the hollow heart aura and use your longer base to angle as close to your target location as possible.  Either way the 12" move of the purple sun should have you hitting several units. 

More over this combo gets you a decent universal spell for moving your shooting units, and your charge bonus aided melee units. 

With this you can take:

Luminark/Purple sun/comet/ Chain lighting+roaming fire bale wind/Umbral spell portal + (wizard of choice) spell in a single list and do devastating turn 1 damage. 

 

The combo is interesting but I feel like it requires a lot of things to go right and personally I'm not a fan of the Purple Sun, in general, because of how swingy it is. Most of the time it does nothing, sometimes it wins games. In most cases I'd rather just dump Geminids into their line than a purple sun.

[mmimzie]

17 minutes ago, Bigscaryflorister said:

Has there been an faq already?! 

No

 

9 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

The combo is interesting but I feel like it requires a lot of things to go right and personally I'm not a fan of the Purple Sun, in general, because of how swingy it is. Most of the time it does nothing, sometimes it wins games. In most cases I'd rather just dump Geminids into their line than a purple sun.

I don't loce gemnids as i like to have a nice strong melee unit, and geminids nerf you so much, even more so when most out good melee units have two attack, but if you are all shooting they arent an issue. 

 

3 hours ago, themortalgod said:

Update to my list, any feedback would be further ver much appreciated:

 

Sorceress on Dragon - 300 - Ignax Scales, Crystal Aegis, Sear Wounds

Sorceress - 90 - General, Warden of the Flame, Agloraxi Prism, Sear Wounds, Warding Band

Sorceress - 90 - Warding Band, Ignite Weapons

Battle Mage - 90 - Azyr, Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

20x Black Guard - 280

20x Black guard - 280

20x Eternal Guard - 260

10x Eternal Guard - 130

5x Sisters of the Thorn - 130 -  Roaming Wildfire, Elemental Cyclone

Whitefire Retinue - 140

Spellportal - 70

Quicksilver Swords - 30

Geminids - 60

Balewind Vortex - 50

Total: 2000pts

 

The changed list is basically looking to introduce a lot of long range spellpower so that on turn one I can be causing havoc in the enemy lines. I also feel that the focus on long range allows me to keep all my wizards in a clump while not having to worry about their threat being limited to only an 18" bubble.

- Spellportal will let me either dump a Cyclone or a Bladewind on any target I want depending on the situation. (It also lets me position the casting wizards outside 30" to deny unbinding)

- I can put the Battlemage up on the Vortex to cast both Chain Lightning AND Roaming Wildfire at 24" range. 

- Geminids and Swords have great range baseline.

I don't love geminids when bringing fast multi attack melee units as even with our possible spell ignore you could find yourself with a unit of black guard only doing 1 attack each.

 

I'd make the black guard squads 30 man. That's what makes them good is that they can fight in 3 rows unlike excutions and other 1" range units. 

 

A sorcerous with thermal rider cloak is about as good as a black dragon in my opinion. As the main reason you bring the black dragon is to have something that keeps up with the black guard.

 

Otherwise it looks pretty cool.

[stratigo]

18 minutes ago, themortalgod said:

The combo is interesting but I feel like it requires a lot of things to go right and personally I'm not a fan of the Purple Sun, in general, because of how swingy it is. Most of the time it does nothing, sometimes it wins games. In most cases I'd rather just dump Geminids into their line than a purple sun.

The purple sun's main target is big models, which it does an average of 7 wounds to when it hits them, which is fairly solid.