Gotrek rules

[Mcthew]

Has anyone actually played Gotrek yet using oldhammer/proxy models?  Sure, GW says it will kill any model in the game, but they are trying to sell Gotrek, right? They ain't gonna say the model looks good, but plays like a donkey. We're planning to put him through his paces against some Skaventide next week. Let's see how well he fights against rattling guns and a blob of clanrats attacking twice!!!

(Yh, I know, he'll probably tank em but I'm an optimist. )

Edited September 11, 2019 by Mcthew

[XReN]

16 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

10" move for one cp. 12" with cogs. I went 4-1(3rd place) at major tournaments using a model I was told wasnt competetive (glottkin) who was 440 points. It can be done. 

 

Well he can easily kill 32 demonettes in one turn so....

You haven't toggled first 2 points, what if he melts in one turn due to magic, shooting and melee? It takes only 48 wounds with no rend to take him down. What if the first thing he will be able to touch is a throw away 80 points unit of chaff and then he melts? Glottkin at least gives a lot of different buffs and I've seen him in action - I know a very good local nurgle player who trades a 200 points of souped up marauders (with Glottkin)  for about a 1000 points of opponent's units.

We'll see, to clearify this: I'm way less sceptical about Gotrek than most local competetive players, I think he is really, really good, but I will doubt his competetiveness untill it's proven by tournament results.

Edited September 11, 2019 by XReN

[RuneBrush]

23 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Has anyone actually played Gotrek yet using oldhammer/proxy models? 

Was just about to post the same.  I think we need to have a few games and let the new model settle for a few weeks before it's possible to say that Gotrek is bad for the game 🙂

 

[Zanzou]

"Only" 48 wounds 😏

People are forgetting that Gotrek doesn't have to fight alone by any means; he's not Vorgaroth's 1200 points to play, he's 520 points.  You still have about 75% of your points left in a 2000 point game- you can still afford your own chaff and elites.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Zanzou

[azmodan]

What if you run him in a shooty army and force opponent to come to You. Then hes 4" inch move is not so bad.

Also feeding him chaff is not so Easy in this scenerii.

People always imagine he is running towards You. This will not always be the case

Edited September 11, 2019 by azmodan

[amysrevenge]

27 minutes ago, azmodan said:

What if you run him in a shooty army and force opponent to come to You. Then hes 4" inch move is not so bad.

Also feeding him chaff is not so Easy in this scenerii.

People always imagine he is running towards You. This will not always be the case

I'm considering running mine with Stormcast ballistas and Judicators.

[Double Misfire]

56 minutes ago, azmodan said:

What if you run him in a shooty army and force opponent to come to You. Then hes 4" inch move is not so bad.

That's what I'm planning on doing 😘

[chord]

😨 When everyone is saying  4" move is a weakness and the majority of stormcast move 4-5"  and hit less hard 

[amysrevenge]

13 minutes ago, chord said:

😨 When everyone is saying  4" move is a weakness and the majority of stormcast move 4-5"  and hit less hard 

That 1" difference has been amplified in everyone's minds; I've always thought this, back to oldhammer days.  Yes, 4" is slower than 5".  No, 5" will not run circles around 4".   It's often the difference between a 7+ and an 8+ to charge.  Sure, you'd rather have the 7+, but that difference alone isn't enough to make the slower one completely useless.

[Toptramp]

On 9/7/2019 at 10:37 PM, Painbringer said:

Pretty sure that all damage from the Celestial Lightning Arc will be reduced to 1. It's an ability that triggers once at a specifed time and deals variable amount of damage (depending on the number Evocators and successsfull rolls).

Yeah like mentioned he ll replace some heavy hitting slow melee units.   If it’s to common then they ll nerf him.   It’s not great for the game but Shows they are brave they in some of the warsrcolls.  

Its not the end all - let’s see what happens 

i personally think it’s ridiculous though - will draw attention to the model - then maybe nerf  

[Panzer]

10 hours ago, amysrevenge said:

That 1" difference has been amplified in everyone's minds; I've always thought this, back to oldhammer days.  Yes, 4" is slower than 5".  No, 5" will not run circles around 4".   It's often the difference between a 7+ and an 8+ to charge.  Sure, you'd rather have the 7+, but that difference alone isn't enough to make the slower one completely useless.

It's not really fair to compare to oldhammer though. Back then a few milimeters difference at positioning those rank&file units could make or break the game for you because it means the opponent may or may not charge you in the flank and break your unit. Also the fact that marching/running and charging were straightout twice your movement value instead of just rolling dice. ^^

[Planar]

It would be fun to pit snake Morathi against him . Unless I am wrong these are the 2 models in the game that limit damage received per round . Gortek will need 4 rounds to kill  her. Will she be able to kill him before that (including use of spells)? Theoretically she can do 2 wounds per round on him (one in hero phase and one in meelee) so it can go both ways

[Mcthew]

So last night we proxied Gotrek against Skaventide and we didn't use T&B as in the WHCommunity article, but instead rattling guns, stormfiends and Warplightning cannon as the mainstay for a 1000 pt game. The unit of liberators we opted for in the Stormcast/Gotrek force, did a job of shielding Gotrek for a turn but were pasted by the WLC and wind launcher in turn 1. After a double turn from the pesky rats, the rattling guns and stormfiends both unloaded (and ungimbled) on Gotrek causing 6 wounds from around 45 shots. Gotrek pasted the stormfiends that turn but was just a duardin smear after turn 3 when the WLC inflicted another 2 wounds.

So, yeah, he can be killed, like anything in this game can. Just need a little luck and a Gotrek blasting army to do it!

(Losses to Skaventide vs Gotrek were 1 unit of stormfiends, and 1 WLC after using more-more warp power twice)

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mcthew

[Infernalslayer]

All i know is that this should have been the warscroll for Slambo, yet they gave him an 80 points Exalted Hero of Chaos warscroll. 

[Kasper]

Gotrek is likely gonna be one of those models that are gonna be absolutely brutal in beginner/casual games, but fall off once you get to tournaments where players know exactly how to adapt/fight him.

[Kasper]

3 hours ago, Planar said:

It would be fun to pit snake Morathi against him . Unless I am wrong these are the 2 models in the game that limit damage received per round . Gortek will need 4 rounds to kill  her. Will she be able to kill him before that (including use of spells)? Theoretically she can do 2 wounds per round on him (one in hero phase and one in meelee) so it can go both ways

They have two completely different rules. Morathi can only suffer 3 wounds pr. turn, but Gotrek can only suffer 1 wound pr. attack. Gortek can die in 1 round of combat, where as Morathi can not.

[Laststand]

2 hours ago, Mcthew said:

So last night we proxied Gotrek against Skaventide and we didn't use T&B as in the WHCommunity article, but instead rattling guns, stormfiends and Warplightning cannon as the mainstay for a 1000 pt game. The unit of liberators we opted for in the Stormcast/Gotrek force, did a job of shielding Gotrek for a turn but were pasted by the WLC and wind launcher in turn 1. After a double turn from the pesky rats, the rattling guns and stormfiends both unloaded (and ungimbled) on Gotrek causing 6 wounds from around 45 shots. Gotrek pasted the stormfiends that turn but was just a duardin smear after turn 3 when the WLC inflicted another 2 wounds.

So, yeah, he can be killed, like anything in this game can. Just need a little luck and a Gotrek blasting army to do it!

(Losses to Skaventide vs Gotrek were 1 unit of stormfiends, and 1 WLC after using more-more warp power twice)

How did the WLC do 2 wounds to Gotrek in one turn? Avatar of Grimnir means the WLC attack (which is an ability) can only do 1 damage per turn. 

[Overread]

20 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Gotrek is likely gonna be one of those models that are gonna be absolutely brutal in beginner/casual games, but fall off once you get to tournaments where players know exactly how to adapt/fight him.

Also because he's only one model he's got less presence than a team on the table. So he's easier to taunt or even more around because he's got less impact on blocking movement pathways. A team of stormcast might have the same movement; but they can spread out and block a pathway and force a confrontation if need be; whilst Gotrek is only the one base. Of course at the same time Gotrek being a single model means that once he's in range all his attacks are in range. 

[Mcthew]

21 minutes ago, Laststand said:

How did the WLC do 2 wounds to Gotrek in one turn? Avatar of Grimnir means the WLC attack (which is an ability) can only do 1 damage per turn. 

We've read the WLC rules differently. We see the WLC blast as a series of hits rather than just one attack, hence rolling x dice for 1 MW each, rather than one dice to determine the level of damage. 

The latter interpretation aligns with cannon-type damage. The former more like prolonged warp fire barrage of destruction.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mcthew

[XReN]

40 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

We've read the WLC rules differently. We see the WLC blast as a series of hits rather than just one attack, hence rolling x dice for 1 MW each, rather than one dice to determine the level of damage. 

This is wrong

[Mcthew]

 

6 minutes ago, XReN said:

This is wrong

Happy to stand corrected, but on explanation. How is it wrong?

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Mcthew said:

 

Happy to stand corrected, but on explanation. How is it wrong?

The WLC shooting is resolved as an ability, Gotrek reduces damage inflicted by abilities to 1.

[Double Misfire]

9 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

 

Happy to stand corrected, but on explanation. How is it wrong?

The Warp Lightning Canon's Warp Lightning Blast is a single ability (and not multiple abilities) that has the potential to inflict multiple mortal wounds. Avatar of Grimnir states that "If the damage inflicted on this model by an attack, spell or ability is greater than 1, change it to 1. Mortal wounds are described in the core rules as a type of damage, therefore Warp Lightning Blast could inflict a max total of one mortal wound on Gotrek (just as a more conventional spell or ability that did D6 mortal wounds), that he would still get to ignore on a 3+.

 

That said Avatar of Grimnir's rules vs a lot of spells and abilities are a bit unclear and could do with a tidy up or FAQ.  

[Mcthew]

6 minutes ago, XReN said:

The WLC shooting is resolved as an ability, Gotrek reduces damage inflicted by abilities to 1.

I guess you're right, and this is sloppy warscroll writing as you can apply it directly or indirectly to any attack regardless of the number of hits in that attack, for example judicator shock bolt bow. I would apply common sense - if its 1 wound per hit then sure, but per ability? That really is broken.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Mcthew

[Double Misfire]

1 minute ago, Mcthew said:

I would apply common sense - if its 1 wound per hit then sure, but per ability? That really is broken.

 

520 points worth of broken baby. 😘