Sception Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) The scenery suggestions are nice, but I'm very worried about the terrain rules. I'd love to have some simple but intuitive rules for basic terrain like forests, walls, hills, ruins, water features, defensible buildings, letting people use their own terrain in a way that makes sense. But I'm worried we'll instead get a bunch of hasslesome and arbitrary rules for specific weird terrain feature models that GW sells, or pretends to sell (but is perpetually out of stock), or used to sell (but never will again), similar to the stronghold rules from the recent dawnbringers book, which in no way generalize to the sort of generic terrain that most game stores, even most warhammer stores, typically have available for players to use. Edited April 24 by Sception 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Battle tactics and Path to Glory are both very strong make-or-break game elements for me. I didn't like 3e battle tactics, and the fact that victory points are weighted heavily in their favor makes me uneasy. I'll be tickled to death if GW finds a way to make them fun and practical while also relevant and tactical, but my confidence is currently low. Path to Glory saw a huge improvement in 3e, but still missed the mark in my book. I'm more confident that they can make appreciable improvements to this again, but my big ask is that they just incorporate a faction-specific Anvil of Apotheosis section into each Battletome, designed to work with Path to Glory. Give me this and I could even overclock them completely fumbling on battle tactics (I only play casually anyway, so it isn't like they'll be hard to ignore.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 18 minutes ago, Ragest said: Tactics now have a value of 4 victory points. If they release the tactics article and I read something about "Faction battle tactics" I will just close the tab and start painting marines. They're worth the same proportion of victory points as they are in every current battleplan. In the new version it looks like there will usually be 10 points up for grabs rather than the current 5. I definitely share your concern about the battle tactics article though. I have a feeling it's going to to be the most debated article of the preview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledgington Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Wonder if we’ll get a new piece of realmgate terrain? Seeing as the old one had aged pretty badly and has been out of print for a while. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Sigmarite Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I like what they showed today. A 4 rounds universal scenario is perfect for casuals like me who don't want to be bogged down in 5 rounds game that can take a lot of time. And underdog mechanics are perfect for people like me (I lose a lot of games of AoS). I'm not playing general's handbook yet, but it's unusually generous from GW to include it in the launch box, so I like it. More of this kind of behaviour please GW. I like the suggested scenery placement. When I was a beginner (I'm still a bit at playing the game), some players in my FLGS would manipulate the scenery so they had the good terrain on their side... This won't be happening anymore with this, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrozatarim Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 29 minutes ago, Sception said: The scenery suggestions are nice, but I'm very worried about the terrain rules. I'd love to have some simple but intuitive rules for basic terrain like forests, walls, hills, ruins, water features, defensible buildings, letting people use their own terrain in a way that makes sense. But I'm worried we'll instead get a bunch of hasslesome and arbitrary rules for specific weird terrain feature models that GW sells, or pretends to sell (but is perpetually out of stock), or used to sell (but never will again), similar to the stronghold rules from the recent dawnbringers book, which in no way generalize to the sort of generic terrain that most game stores, even most warhammer stores, typically have available for players to use. To be fair, if what's in the article is any indication, there will be a small set of broad terrain abilities rather than specific ones for specific models. The terrain abilities included there are Cover (which will presumably be a bonus to save, or a penalty to attack rolls vs a unit in cover), Unstable (presumably a 'you can't have a unit sitting on top of this' rule), Obscuring (which will likely be a rule for LOS blocking or the like), and Place of Power. The latter's the only obvious place thus far for weird and specific rules to go, and I wonder if it'll be more like a simplified version of the Mystic Terrain rules/table of times latter rather than anything else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Real terrain rules are nice. I already don't like the Seasonal rules dumping more complexity onto our newly simplified game. I loathe battle tactics still existing. Unless they completely revamped the way they work and are chosen, that's a pretty big knock against 4th for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Arthur Hotep Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 19 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: I like what they showed today. A 4 rounds universal scenario is perfect for casuals like me who don't want to be bogged down in 5 rounds game that can take a lot of time. Personally I find that the first two turns of the game take 3 hours and the last 3 take 1.5 hours combined, so I am not so sure going to 4 turns will save that much time. By turn 5 I usually have, like, three units left on the table 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 26 minutes ago, Ledgington said: Wonder if we’ll get a new piece of realmgate terrain? Seeing as the old one had aged pretty badly and has been out of print for a while. I didn't see them in person, but I find it a pretty solid peace. In fact, I am looking for them, but a newer version would be cool as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lost Sigmarite Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 3 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I didn't see them in person, but I find it a pretty solid peace. In fact, I am looking for them, but a newer version would be cool as well. I'd be so cool if they made some made to order with these old AoS terrain pieces... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I still think the realmgate holds up pretty well, but maybe that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntMan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 56 minutes ago, Sception said: letting people use their own terrain This is unfortunately, as you go on to suggest, not the modern GW way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 8 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Personally I find that the first two turns of the game take 3 hours and the last 3 take 1.5 hours combined, so I am not so sure going to 4 turns will save that much time. By turn 5 I usually have, like, three units left on the table Similar to my games. I find most of the time by turn 3 or 4 if someone gets the double go we can usually talk out turn 5 and be done with it and either start a new one or discuss the game with hindsight. I wonder if the new mechanics for having turn 2 will change that or make the games longer even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 43 minutes ago, OkayestDM said: Path to Glory saw a huge improvement in 3e, but still missed the mark in my book. I'm more confident that they can make appreciable improvements to this again, but my big ask is that they just incorporate a faction-specific Anvil of Apotheosis section into each Battletome, designed to work with Path to Glory. Give me this and I could even overclock them completely fumbling on battle tactics (I only play casually anyway, so it isn't like they'll be hard to ignore.) I would trade a lot of the listbuilding complexity we have in the game for AoA to be matched play enabled. Artefacts, spell lores, battalions, seasonal rule options, unit options/upgrades. Being able to have your guy actually lead your army is such a good feature. A lot of narrative would naturally flow from that direction too. 41 minutes ago, Chikout said: They're worth the same proportion of victory points as they are in every current battleplan. In the new version it looks like there will usually be 10 points up for grabs rather than the current 5. I definitely share your concern about the battle tactics article though. I have a feeling it's going to to be the most debated article of the preview. Border war might actually be ruined by the presence of BTs, since it predates them, and they're still worth 4vp on it and its one of the ones previewed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, Ganigumo said: Border war might actually be ruined by the presence of BTs, since it predates them, and they're still worth 4vp on it and its one of the ones previewed. Tyler from Warhammer Weekly released old favorite battleplans updated for 3rd edition called Warcoda. Border War was one of these and was a lot of fun to play. So it can work well with battle tactics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviathanL Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I expected bodyguard or retinue to become a keyword that certain units had that incentivized foot heroes. I am not sure if honour guard being a seasonal rule means that that expectation is now more likely or entirely disproven. I suppose at least for the first year it is mostly true, so I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I rather they simplify Path to glory especially the amount of post game book keeping and power buffs. but I would like if they where consistent in supporting Narrative play with new battleplans and releases through out a whole edition because it felt like 3rd edition we where stuck with the same 6 battle plans in the core book. Dawnbringer came in to late and the content was all over the place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 minutes ago, dmorley21 said: Tyler from Warhammer Weekly released old favorite battleplans updated for 3rd edition called Warcoda. Border War was one of these and was a lot of fun to play. So it can work well with battle tactics. In the both versions of border war in warcoda the tactics are only worth 2points. for 6 or 7 primary/2 BT. This new one has 6 primary/4BT. which feels like a pretty significant bump when the max points you can score without the "home" objective is 3 points on all versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 26 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said: I'd be so cool if they made some made to order with these old AoS terrain pieces... That would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmorley21 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 minutes ago, Ganigumo said: In the both versions of border war in warcoda the tactics are only worth 2points. for 6 or 7 primary/2 BT. This new one has 6 primary/4BT. which feels like a pretty significant bump when the max points you can score without the "home" objective is 3 points on all versions. Right, which is why I couched it as it can work with battle tactics. We’ll have to see about this version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetconnedLegion Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 35 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I didn't see them in person, but I find it a pretty solid peace. In fact, I am looking for them, but a newer version would be cool as well. The design was good. The issue is they were cast in China out of a horrendous plastic that didn’t react well with polystyrene cement. It was the case with all the early AoS scenery and some 40K pieces - the worst being a plasma gun turret thing that was so irritating to assemble that I sold mine as soon as I painted it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 8 minutes ago, RetconnedLegion said: The design was good. The issue is they were cast in China out of a horrendous plastic that didn’t react well with polystyrene cement. It was the case with all the early AoS scenery and some 40K pieces - the worst being a plasma gun turret thing that was so irritating to assemble that I sold mine as soon as I painted it. Oh. I had no clue. What a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, Sception said: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/24/heres-how-battlepacks-battleplans-and-the-generals-handbook-work-in-newaos/ Battlepacks/plans article is up. heavy weight to battle tactics, which I as a battle tactics hater don't like. Core rule battleplans are 4 rounds, which sounded like a good/exciting move to me, making games shorter & thus more likely to complete, but actual tournament/generals hadnbook plans are still rounds so bleh. If the faction BTs are going away as rumoured then I am totally fine with it. If every faction has access to the same BTs then this is a great change. The issue with BTs has always been that some armies require you to jump through crazy hoops (see Sylvaneth, Nighthaunt) while others just require you to just stand around (See Tzeentch and Slaves to Darkness) I play/assist with tournaments every month and most games get completed. I don't think incomplete games is a wider problem, but more specific to certain players/playstyles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said: Personally I find that the first two turns of the game take 3 hours and the last 3 take 1.5 hours combined, so I am not so sure going to 4 turns will save that much time. By turn 5 I usually have, like, three units left on the table Are you saying that your games, on average, last 4.5 hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 12 minutes ago, Landohammer said: If the faction BTs are going away as rumoured then I am totally fine with it. If faction tactics go away then battle tactics lose their value as a balancing lever, which is the only thing I currently like about them. 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.