The Rumour Thread

[Ejecutor]

17 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

@Landohammer Why can't you use them as darkoath?

@Ejecutor Why say no? They're kind of a "thing" with Vyrkos. 

I think there's other priorities for the faction that would take place before they get their own kit.

[Sahrial]

I have no real complaints other than aesthetics, and any confusion about the rules will definitely be cleared up with the actual rules revealed.

Whatever my hesitation in loving it is, I can’t deny they are overall intuitive and relatively easy to read.

[ScionOfOssia]

Ah, then we’re stuck with the same godawful Mortal Wounds and Wards as 3rd Edition I guess. Shame, I hoped they’d be toned down substantially. 

[feadair]

8 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

With TOW some unit Champions can pick a magic weapon. I find it a strange choice that AoS forbids the champ to take the best weapon? With what we know so far I don't see the point in making the champion unable to take the Grand hammer.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, it makes sense if the aim is to make it hard for players to use their old minis. Since old Liberators were in practice always modelled with the Champion carrying the Grandhammer, banning it may encourage players to buy new kits.

[Mortal Wound]

7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The reason 40k changed their devastating wounds ability into autowounds is because mortals ignored the regular damage spill rules. It was changed to autowounds with no saves allowed.
It was mostly a problem on eldar since they had fate dice to cheat, but as an example, if you fire your damage 10 anti-tank gun at a unit of infantry with 1 wound each you can normally only kill a single model (no damage spillover). But if that same attack procced mortal wounds you would get the full damage spillover and kill 10 models.

Devastating Wounds are not autowounding hits. Devastating Wounds are wounds that do not allow a save of any kind, exactly like Mortal Wounds, but unlike Mortal Wounds, they do not spill over overkilled models as you explain.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about Mortal Wounds, Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds in 40k in this discussion, but at the end of the day, it's really all moot anyway, since no one can make a definite prediction how Mortals will work in AoS4. For one, it's now called Mortal Damage instead of Mortal Wounds so we really can't make any assumptions.

Which is a shame, because now my handle doesn't work with both games.

Edited April 5 by Mortal Wound

[mawhis117]

Some interesting background on the recent announcements:

 

[Mortal Wound]

7 minutes ago, feadair said:

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, it makes sense if the aim is to make it hard for players to use their old minis. Since old Liberators were in practice always modelled with the Champion carrying the Grandhammer, banning it may encourage players to buy new kits.

I don't think there's any conspiracy beyond the usual 'no kit option, no rules option' policy. The new Liberator kit is likely structured just like the Vindictor kit, with prescribed posing and grandhammer arms that only fit a specific rank-and-file model.

'Everyone' having the grandweapon on the champion is a bit of a stretch to begin with as well, given how many Liberator units in the wild were 1st edition starter/start collecting models. Grandweapon champions was something you did if you bought the full kit, which, given the availability of the starter models, only real Stormcast nuts did. Like me.

Edited April 5 by Mortal Wound

[Sahrial]

I was thinking turning hand of dust into a rampage was really wild at first, but then I thought about it and…

I think it’s really more of a nuclear deterrent to dissuade you from charging him with monsters and heroes than something you’ll likely see used offensively. Risk/reward play. I like the design, honestly

[DoctorPerils]

42 minutes ago, Gutsu17 said:

To make it more fun and add some tension

i can guarantee it won't feel fun to the player who's targeted by it. At least with a dice roll you know its out of your hands. In this case, it will feel psychologically like you're the one who killed your own model. Very NPE (to use the parlance from a few years ago)

 

[Sahrial]

3 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

i can guarantee it won't feel fun to the player who's targeted by it. At least with a dice roll you know its out of your hands. In this case, it will feel psychologically like you're the one who killed your own model. Very NPE (to use the parlance from a few years ago)

 

I know this might come off as semantics, but that’s not NPE. NPE would be if the player had no agency at all. The negative is lack of engagement, not bad-feeling engagement.

while it might feel like they killed their own unit, simultaneously, if they pick otherwise, they get to feel like they “beat death”

Edited April 5 by Sahrial

[Ganigumo]

2 minutes ago, Mortal Wound said:

Devastating Wounds are not autowounding hits. Devastating Wounds are wounds that do not allow a save of any kind, exactly like Mortal Wounds, but unlike Mortal Wounds, they do not spill over overkilled models as you explain.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about Mortal Wounds, Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds in 40k in this discussion, but at the end of the day, it's really all moot anyway, since no one can make a definite prediction how Mortals will work in AoS4. For one, it's now called Mortal Damage instead of Mortal Wounds so we really can't make any assumptions.

Devastating wounds is a weapon ability that did mortal wounds at the start of the edition. I think The reason there is confusion is because of the errata. (I'm aware devastating wounds is wound rolls of 6).
I'd put my money on mortal wounds being exactly the same. I don't think they'll add damage spillover which is why 40k needs the extra complexity around that stuff.
 

 

8 minutes ago, ScionOfOssia said:

Ah, then we’re stuck with the same godawful Mortal Wounds and Wards as 3rd Edition I guess. Shame, I hoped they’d be toned down substantially. 

Mortal wounds are a necessary part of the game. Unkillable units are bad for the game, and make it drag to a standstill.
They have a natural counter in high wound, low save units, but the problem is that raw wounds tended to be overcosted in aos3, and most units that have mortal output also have good non-mortal damage output.
Like yeah mortals suck if your army is about save stacking, but have you ever played something like ironjawz or big waaagh! into that stuff? Your stuff bounces off. Just the other day I had a maw krusha do 0 damage, and multiple times at I've had pigs completely bounce off stuff like fulminators, stormdrakes, and immortis. There's a level of rock-paper-scissors to stuff, and unfortunately some armies are just rock or paper.

[GloomkingWortwazi]

11 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

i can guarantee it won't feel fun to the player who's targeted by it. At least with a dice roll you know its out of your hands. In this case, it will feel psychologically like you're the one who killed your own model. Very NPE (to use the parlance from a few years ago)

 

It's no worse than a coin toss and thinking, "Why oh why didn't I pick tails?". It's all 4+'s, baby.🤷‍♂️ Nagash take the wheel!🙏

Edited April 5 by GloomkingWortwazi

[ScionOfOssia]

6 minutes ago, DoctorPerils said:

i can guarantee it won't feel fun to the player who's targeted by it. At least with a dice roll you know its out of your hands. In this case, it will feel psychologically like you're the one who killed your own model. Very NPE (to use the parlance from a few years ago)

 

It’s literally the same as it has been. Nagash losing the GW Mandated Mindgame would’ve bothered me more than them keeping it. 

[JackStreicher]

Still doesn’t feel very godly to me. But let’s see about magic first.

[Chikout]

Thoughts. 

1- they've clearly referenced the old scrolls when making the new ones. The 3s to hit and wound are the same as they were on the old scrolls. It doesn't indicate the homogenisation of AoS. 

2. Every warscroll gets at least one unique ability. That puts to bed my biggest worry about USRs. 

3. Colour coding doesn't work for the colour blind. Hero phase and charge phase look identical to me. Fortunately there isn't much overlap between them. 

4. I'm really glad hand of dust is staying. A little bit of weird flavour is good for the game Interesting that it is a rampage. I wonder if there will be abilities that turn it off. 

5. Nagash can't heal himself anymore, he can bring back a whole unit but only once per game.

6. What's up with the shield option on liberators. Just cosmetic or different warscroll? 

7. The only icon I couldn't guess immediately was control but since it's the only one, there's no problem. 

8. Even though I'm colour blind, I like the presentation. It's super easy to find the spell and the rampage on the warscroll. 

Overall a solid improvement but not a complete reinvention. 

[Mutton]

The new warscrolls are brilliant. Improved clarity and readability. They're pleasant to look at. I honestly can't find a fault with this design--it's so good.

Some other notes:
-No monster degradation table, just a simple battle-damaged ability, awesome.
-I'm wondering if Wizard(9) means how many power dice you get to cast spells. Either that or how many spells you can cast (could we get a confirmation from those "in the know?")
 

[Beliman]

20 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Mortal wounds are a necessary part of the game. Unkillable units are bad for the game, and make it drag to a standstill.

I feel that AoS only has one offensive stat. MW is just a hidden stat to increase damage output vs high saves and remove interation between players

[RyantheFett]

3 minutes ago, Chikout said:

6. What's up with the shield option on liberators. Just cosmetic or different warscroll? 

It is just most likely built into the war scroll. 40k did the same thing in which they removed a lot of options. They been doing that with a lot of 3ed units.

[Cdance93]

10 minutes ago, Chikout said:

Thoughts. 

1- they've clearly referenced the old scrolls when making the new ones. The 3s to hit and wound are the same as they were on the old scrolls. It doesn't indicate the homogenisation of AoS. 

2. Every warscroll gets at least one unique ability. That puts to bed my biggest worry about USRs. 

3. Colour coding doesn't work for the colour blind. Hero phase and charge phase look identical to me. Fortunately there isn't much overlap between them. 

4. I'm really glad hand of dust is staying. A little bit of weird flavour is good for the game Interesting that it is a rampage. I wonder if there will be abilities that turn it off. 

5. Nagash can't heal himself anymore, he can bring back a whole unit but only once per game.

6. What's up with the shield option on liberators. Just cosmetic or different warscroll? 

7. The only icon I couldn't guess immediately was control but since it's the only one, there's no problem. 

8. Even though I'm colour blind, I like the presentation. It's super easy to find the spell and the rampage on the warscroll. 

Overall a solid improvement but not a complete reinvention. 

I think I missed it but where did you see the every warscroll will have a unique ability ?

[Ganigumo]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I feel that AoS only has one offensive stat. MW is just a hidden stat to increase damage output vs high saves and remove interation between players

pretty much the only armies that have a good distinction are kruleboyz and spiderfang. those units do nothing against high wound units, but shred elite high save stuff. should be more of that in the game, and less "good unit gets bonus mortals"

[Cdance93]

You either remove mortal wounds AND save stacking (like completely get rid of it) 

Or you have to keep mortals. Save stacking is their answer to having a flat + to wound instead of a table (a much better system TBH and easier to balance). 
 

without save stacking little grot rascals would kill kragnos. 
 

I have a really hard time seeing them ever remove save stacking.

[Freemeta]

not a fan of losing Bravery. Moral was an interesting way to win a battle and give flavor to units.

Edited April 5 by Freemeta

[CommissarRotke]

3 hours ago, Jeremierty said:

for example if the sequitors are redone they would be able to play with their old minis even in matched play (using the warscroll of the redone miniature of course) 

it was always going to shake out like this TBQH. it is just a damn shame GW left it to an intern/community manager and didn't PUT IT IN THE SQUATTING ARTICLE.

[Chikout]

7 minutes ago, Cdance93 said:

I think I missed it but where did you see the every warscroll will have a unique ability ?

It's here. 

The article also says there are seven weapon ability USRs. I can only think of 4. Mortal wounds, exploding hits, auto wounds and ignore save modifiers. Anyone care to guess what they all are? 

[HorticulusTGA]

1 minute ago, Chikout said:

Mortal wounds, exploding hits, auto wounds and ignore save modifiers

Maybe things like poison ? or that would be auto hit or auto wound ?