The Rumour Thread

[The Lost Sigmarite]

7 minutes ago, madmac said:

Yeah, I think people forget how unbelievably slow the CoS rollout has been compared to usual. In an entire year we've gotten like two pictures of renders and 1.3 unit reveals.

People will see the slow CoS info drip that lasted a year, and still be like "yeah it was planned by GW, it totally wasn't slowed down because of Covid related issues that forced GW to delay the launch of CoS and their accompanying narrative campaign".

[Snarff]

They're definitely playing some sort of catchup. I can't believe they'd intentionally release extremely few Battletomes at the start of 3rd before rapidfire releasing so many of them this year, alongside large Warcry and Underworlds sets. There were even 2 quite huge releases in the battletome wave (StD and Seraphon).

This edition's core book, last warhammer fest and some BL books have put quite a huge emphasis on Dawnbringer crusades. I just don't believe 2 years of waiting before we finally get a Dawnbringers narrative was intentional, especially if the Git hero was done even before the DoK Gladiatrix. That means the Git hero was done a year before the GIt battletome even released, and it's not even in the tome.

Nevertheless, I'm super excited that basically all 3e Battletomes are in and the exciting lore progression and surprise reveals are going at a high pace again. If we knew there were going to be more releases for almost every army than just the battletome/hero, which felt like they were going to be all that your faction would get this edition, the battletome/hero releases wouldn't have felt nearly as bad.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Snarff

[Goatforce]

35 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

For me this is 100% the best answer. Having digital subscription based army rules would allow GW To quickly change points or rules that are out of balance, meaning as players we don’t have to wait years for an update if an army or key unit suddenly sucks or breaks the game. 

It feels like this is a logical progression on many levels, and popular for players, however GW will probably avoid this as long as possible, because they are terrified of having rules pirated and they love selling printed rules on dead trees. Maybe if the community increases pressure GW might eventually start to listen. 

I had thought that something they could do, but probably wouldn't is a sort of "1 purchase for life" kinda deal with the books. Where yes you need to buy the book to get access to the digital rules, but that means you have access in all further editions. For example if you got the Seraphon box, the code in the book inside would mean you would have access to Seraphon rules for all further iterations of the book in later editions.

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Rules for SCA and Tzeentch Underworlds warbands:

the SCE unit makes me weep 😅

275pts for one of the worst profiles in SCE (4+ to wound, ouch!), no access to a spell from the lore (not a HERO) and the only utility comes from casting a spell on an 8+ in a book where the only access to bonuses to cast is locked behind a 450+pts monster.

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, TechnoVampire said:

For me this is 100% the best answer. Having digital subscription based army rules would allow GW To quickly change points or rules that are out of balance, meaning as players we don’t have to wait years for an update if an army or key unit suddenly sucks or breaks the game.

I feel digital subscription for a game which most of the player base only plays once or twice a month (and that's the committed ones) is basically a pay-per-game model and will lead to a lot of customers spending more than they wanted just because they forgot to cancel their subscription.

IMHO the "100% best answer" is closer to: free online updated rules AND possibility to buy books with lore (+painting etc etc) and rules.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Marcvs

[Tervindar]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

I feel digital subscription for a game which most of the plaeyer base only plays once or twice a month (and that's the committed ones) is basically a pay-per-game model and will lead to a lot of customers spending way too many just because they forgot to cancel their subscription.

Honestly, the "100% best answer" imho is closer to: free online updated rules AND possibility to buy books with lore (+painting etc etc) and rules.

The free online updated rules, is frankly an industry standard. I know that GW makes a significant portion of revenue off books, but still online rules that are free wouldn't replace the books. Folks could still buy the book for lore, hobby, path to glory, etc. It feels really bad when you buy a physical book that is outdated very quickly. If they were more in the region of $25 then it wouldn't be as bad, but for $50 its not great. 

[mojojojo101]

As someone who doesn't really play the game very much, battletomes feel like at gate to get rules, that quite frankly isn't worth bothering with, especially now they are more than £30 each.

I think I'd be distinctly MORE likely to buy a battletome if the rules were just excluded entirely. I think they'd be much more attractive products if they were more like big coffee table books dedicated to each faction. Pack them full of lore, short stories, WAAAAAAY more art, especially double page spreads, make the painting guides more involved and wider reaching, maybe include some ideas on how to build themed terrain and boards for the faction, increase the amount of models shown in the book as well, maybe even some community or staff spotlights like there are in the Core Book. I think you'd probably end up with Path to Glory rules still in this book but I think thats okay. If done right, I'd be pretty happy to be £50 or so for a book like that.

The other benefit of taking the rules out of books is that GW and the players are no longer tied to the battletome merry-go-round. If they want to continue the 3 year edition cycle it's going to get harder and harder to keep updating every faction within that period. If rules are digital they have more scope to make big changes and can do such in a much more reactive way than they can now.

[JackStreicher]

17 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

As someone who doesn't really play the game very much, battletomes feel like at gate to get rules, that quite frankly isn't worth bothering with, especially now they are more than £30 each.

I think I'd be distinctly MORE likely to buy a battletome if the rules were just excluded entirely. I think they'd be much more attractive products if they were more like big coffee table books dedicated to each faction. Pack them full of lore, short stories, WAAAAAAY more art, especially double page spreads, make the painting guides more involved and wider reaching, maybe include some ideas on how to build themed terrain and boards for the faction, increase the amount of models shown in the book as well, maybe even some community or staff spotlights like there are in the Core Book. I think you'd probably end up with Path to Glory rules still in this book but I think thats okay. If done right, I'd be pretty happy to be £50 or so for a book like that.

The other benefit of taking the rules out of books is that GW and the players are no longer tied to the battletome merry-go-round. If they want to continue the 3 year edition cycle it's going to get harder and harder to keep updating every faction within that period. If rules are digital they have more scope to make big changes and can do such in a much more reactive way than they can now.

Funnily enough we've had this discussion in our local gaming group lately. We concluded the same as you.
We'd rather have Lore-Books to collect, with awesome new art, that do not become outdated, than books that are full of rules that become outdated within months.
One of the biggest re-selling points of the old Warhammer Fantasy Army Books was the fact that they were rich of lore and characterful stories which made them retain their value even across editions.

Nowadays AoS books: Tossed into the trash bin once a new one is out.

Edited May 3, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Hollow]

^ 100% this. I really don't like the way that printed publications are becoming "disposable". A beautiful book should provide value and happiness over many years. Not utilized for some transient content and binned. That is an incredibly unsustainable way of going about things. I would actually really like (as I have mentioned before) AOS to consist of 10 big books. A core rule book for the edition and a big book (similar size to the rule book) based around each of the Mortal Realms and 8 points. With miniature rules free online and in inexpensive card decks. 10th edition 40k gives me a bit of hope, I'll be curious to see how/if rules are done in the new Codex books/Card Decks. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Hollow

[TechnoVampire]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

I feel digital subscription for a game which most of the player base only plays once or twice a month (and that's the committed ones) is basically a pay-per-game model and will lead to a lot of customers spending more than they wanted just because they forgot to cancel their subscription.

IMHO the "100% best answer" is closer to: free online updated rules AND possibility to buy books with lore (+painting etc etc) and rules.

That’s a fair point. The part I feel most strongly about is GW providing digital rules that they can update quickly as opposed to making us buy paper books that are as good as disposable as soon as you put a code into the the app. My thinking was more that they could make the app subscription based and provide the rules, which are updated quickly and easily for each faction, (helping to keep up to date with the break-neck pace of the changes in the game). If they were free then even better! I’d also be all for physical lore and artwork books that people can collect… if they also include the rules in them then great! 

[Baron Klatz]

Ironically funny the further we go forward the more people wish for the AoS1 system again of free rules, books that are 98% for art & lore(only thing locked was battalions) and big Grand Alliance books for all those factions rules in one place.  
 

edit: I like the Domitan Stormcast, aethercharging a corner of the battlefield for 2+ To Hits is thematically cool and sounds like it can do some damage with those rending potential 6 damage attacks. Plus the full warband being able to cast & dispel twice is cool. Also good they actually have the Thunderstrike keyword(glares at Xandire’s)

Edited May 3, 2023 by Baron Klatz

[pnkdth]

54 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Ironically funny the further we go forward the more people wish for the AoS1 system again of free rules, books that are 98% for art & lore(only thing locked was battalions) and big Grand Alliance books for all those factions rules in one place.  

I want free digitally available rules not a huge expensive book which will need 5 billions pages of FAQs/Erratas + lore and art in battletomes. I'd love world building and themes explored in a similar veins to Liber Chaotica.

I really REALLY don't want to return to anything even remotely close to AoS 1. Grand Alliances are bound to create watered down and flavourless or horribly imbalanced rules. Currently the AoS team is doing a decent job at balancing 3rd. Just a shame they went so hard on MW spam.

Looking at 40k I do not think we're at a place where we need a reset (give it an edition or two). They clearly want to add in a few new factions before that. That said, GW can be quite fickle at times. 😄

[JerekKruger]

1 hour ago, Hollow said:

^ 100% this. I really don't like the way that printed publications are becoming "disposable". A beautiful book should provide value and happiness over many years. Not utilized for some transient content and binned. That is an incredibly unsustainable way of going about things. I would actually really like (as I have mentioned before) AOS to consist of 10 big books. A core rule book for the edition and a big book (similar size to the rule book) based around each of the Mortal Realms and 8 points. With miniature rules free online and in inexpensive card decks. 10th edition 40k gives me a bit of hope, I'll be curious to see how/if rules are done in the new Codex books/Card Decks. 

I hadn't really thought about it from that point of view, as I started AoS in 3.0 so haven't had any obsolete Battletomes yet, but yeah it's not a great model.

If each faction got an art and lore book every 3 years which built in previous ones as well as the narrative and rules were completely separate and free I would probably be happier about buying them than buying a Battletome which contains a lot of repeated lore and art with very temporary rules.

[rattila]

Well, about mortal wounds spam. The ossiarchs have only one unit who does it, only on the charge, and then the wizard. So its almost an army without mortal wounds. Same for rerolls (to hit or to save): not one anymore. Dont the other books also go that way?

[Gitzdee]

Imho rules in books are a thing of the past. GW has an AoS app that works great. I dont see any reasons why people buy books for the rules anymore. I like the books for collecting and reading, just not for rules. 

Edit: I also think the skin cloak RE belongs the same model as the Kroot arrows. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Gitzdee

[EntMan]

14 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Imho rules in books are a thing of the past. GW has an AoS app that works great. I dont see any reasons why people buy books for the rules anymore. I like the books for collecting and reading, just not for rules. 

I agree in principle. But currently you need to buy the book to get the rules (outside of the unit warscrolls) unlocked in the app. 

Maybe they should have an option to pay to unlock the app content for each faction, but cheaper than buying the tome?

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by EntMan

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, JerekKruger said:

I hadn't really thought about it from that point of view, as I started AoS in 3.0 so haven't had any obsolete Battletomes yet, but yeah it's not a great model.

Warscroll Cards are another issue. I tossed three packs into the bin within 2 months - there’s just no use gor outdated ones.

WSC were fine when their price was low. Nowadays I print my own since the price has skyrocketed without any increase of actual value. (+Throwing those away hurts me for sone reason ;()

 

Most people I know get their rules online. I even print mine and put them into a binder (1 Binder with rules for 8+ armies + Scenarios - just amazing).

Edited May 3, 2023 by JackStreicher

[CommissarRotke]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

+Throwing those away hurts me for sone reason ;()

it's super wasteful and that is reason enough, period. let alone the pricing of them. I am still salty about GW making thousands of FOMO Warcry sets--at a great value!--that came with thousands of cards that were obsolete within ~3 months.

[Tervindar]

I have a ton of 2.0 books, as someone who likes to collect various forces, those just feel like a waste right now. Besides the book in the new seraphon book i haven't bought any 3.0 books. 

 

[EonChao]

Did we ever get a write up of the AoS or Warcry and Underworlds Q&A sessions?

[CommissarRotke]

49 minutes ago, EonChao said:

Did we ever get a write up of the AoS or Warcry and Underworlds Q&A sessions?

we did not... and looking at reddit I didn't see it either?

[Clan's Cynic]

Only thing I've heard out of the Q&A is somebody saying Warclans wouldn't be getting their own Endless Spells and that we'd still be in Ghur for the next GHB.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Clan's Cynic

[Grimrock]

4 hours ago, rattila said:

Well, about mortal wounds spam. The ossiarchs have only one unit who does it, only on the charge, and then the wizard. So its almost an army without mortal wounds. Same for rerolls (to hit or to save): not one anymore. Dont the other books also go that way?

Probably depends on the book but there are a ton out there. Just thinking of a few armies I play... in Slaanesh the entire army does mortals on a 6 to hit once they've hit a cerrtain depravity threshold (should usually happen turn 2 or 3). In Nurgle the entire army inflicts disease points on a 6 to hit which then translate to mortals in the battleshock phase, usually on a 4+ per disease point but it can be 3+ or even 2+. There are also impact hit mortals from the flies, mortals from special monstrous actions, bloab pings a ton of mortal wounds throughout different phases, festus, sloppity, beasts, etc. etc. Tons of stuff. Khorne has mortals on a 6 to hit with all variants of bloodletters (foot unit, mounted unit, and... 4? different heroes) which pretty much all get changed to a 5+ in a specific sub faction. Then there are murder rolls, impact hits, skullreapers... There have absolutely been some reductions in some areas, but the spam is still going strong in a lot of places.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Grimrock

[JerekKruger]

12 hours ago, rattila said:

Well, about mortal wounds spam. The ossiarchs have only one unit who does it, only on the charge, and then the wizard. So its almost an army without mortal wounds. Same for rerolls (to hit or to save): not one anymore. Dont the other books also go that way?

Ossiarch can also do it with Crematorian Mortek plus Harvester blocks. Die, explode, resurrect, repeat.

[woolf]

2 hours ago, JerekKruger said:

Ossiarch can also do it with Crematorian Mortek plus Harvester blocks. Die, explode, resurrect, repeat.

They also have a ton of rend so from that point of view adds to point that normal armour is becoming less valuable. Rend 3 wound is close to MW in a lot of cases after all..