The Rumour Thread

[Malakithe]

Urge to Chaos rising...must resist...

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, MitGas said:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/11/review-slaves-to-darkness-army-set/

Nice in-depth look at the new army box (Daemon Prince, theridons and Chosen)

looks like Chosen might be a tiny bit smaller than Varanguard.

Love how absolutely monstrous the Chosen are!!

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I'm disappointed with the AoS rule team after this Ogro Mawtribes book. Not because they are bad or anything (they seems to have the stats to make a push in the meta), I don't care at all how good they are or if they can top tournaments, but the philosohpy behind the book seems to go back instead of trying to improve the game. Let me explain:

If you read the leaked Slaves to Darkness book, everybody can see that there is A LOT of customization (ignore the competitive scene). You have a lot to play around: trait and artifact (as usual), each unit with Marks of Chaos (that already have active and passive abilities) and even a Banner that can improve them. But that's not all, they still have the Eye of the Gods going on for a lot of heroes (or even units if you want, just take the mark and combo with subfaction, spells, prayers and Hero Actions). That's without going in with all new awesome profiles that can be improved all the customization going on!

So, the whole point is how far can players customize their own (aka, personal and unique) Slaves to Darkness army without the ****** Artifact+Trait combo. THAT'S AWESOME!!

And then the Ogor Mawtribe book throw everything to the bin:

1. Your traits and artifacts are locked behind something (maybe keywords, maybe one unit). So if your warlord is a Suneater, you probably will have 1 trait that will only affect 1 unit in your entire army (hurra), and maybe 2 or 3 artifacts that 90% of ALL heroes from other Ogor players are going to use
   Remember, unique and personal army? sure...
2. If you try to combine Gutbusters and beastclaw riders, you will lose half of the synergies and the player will feel bad because THAT'S NOT what you want.
   NPE experience without even playing the game!
3. And even building BCR, you still have diferent untis that will not use your main battle traits or customization options because [reasons].

Sorry for the rant, but IMO, Slaves to Darkness book seems to be 1 step forward and this battletome seems to be 2 steps backward.

Damn it GW its supposed to be our Edition!!

[Neverchosen]

30 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

They're both excellent minis but it's weird to see regular ol' chaos warriors have cloaks and chosen not have them. My brain just defaults to 'seniority = cloaks' so this does not compute.

I think they have just done the classic jedi pull the cloaks off 'lets dance' move!

[Neverchosen]

1 minute ago, KingBrodd said:

Love how absolutely monstrous the Chosen are!!

Turns out the new Maneater Models just put on some spikey armour and started worshipping the dark gods!

[MitGas]

31 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

They're both excellent minis but it's weird to see regular ol' chaos warriors have cloaks and chosen not have them. My brain just defaults to 'seniority = cloaks' so this does not compute.

I think leaders can use the extra bling visually but chosen simply know that a cloak is a hassle in a fight. 😇 Lots of my favorite design have no capes/cloaks though. I got a specific preference for armor with a long „skirt“, either as part of a coat (think Sephiroth) or as a tabard sort of thing (think Malthael). No true cloak in those two either. 

[MitGas]

46 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Hey there my friend, Sigmar is recruiting you know. Just call out his name as you die.

My heart (and more importantly, my wallet!) belong to Tzeentch. It‘s a done deal since 20 years. It’s too late for me now. 

[EntMan]

10 minutes ago, MitGas said:

My heart (and more importantly, my wallet!) belong to Tzeentch. It‘s a done deal since 20 years. It’s too late for me now. 

My chaotic wallet goes to Tzeentch, my orderly is for (specifically Living) Cities.

Both mainly for the variety. And Tzeentch for the magic and the mutants.

[Sahrial]

https://www.goonhammer.com/battletome-ogor-mawtribes-2022-the-goonhammer-review/
 

im going to dissent, as an Ogor player, to the disappointment posted before this.

I read this review and I kept wait for the big change, the thing that would make or break the book, and it never came.

At the end of the day, this is not a massive overhaul of the army.

Which is exactly what was best for them.

i would have liked more potent buffs, sure, what player wouldn’t for their favorite army?

we got a TON of quality of life improvements, though. We got rid of the faction abilities locked behind subpar command traits and artefacts.

almost everything got some sort of flat buff, some even with points reductions.

no, we don’t have the same point for point customizability of s2d, but that was never the goal, imo. Every Ogor player I’ve talked to has felt the same: the core concept is what we want, we just need to be able to do it better.

i think this book does that. Not in every way I expected, not in every way I wanted, but it’s there, and I’m excited to try out some new builds. This is exactly what we needed, barring a range refresh on finecast models, and an expansion of units which I’ll hold out hope for with end of edition expansion releases.

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, Sahrial said:

https://www.goonhammer.com/battletome-ogor-mawtribes-2022-the-goonhammer-review/
 

im going to dissent, as an Ogor player, to the disappointment posted before this.

I read this review and I kept wait for the big change, the thing that would make or break the book, and it never came.

At the end of the day, this is not a massive overhaul of the army.

Which is exactly what was best for them.

i would have liked more potent buffs, sure, what player wouldn’t for their favorite army?

we got a TON of quality of life improvements, though. We got rid of the faction abilities locked behind subpar command traits and artefacts.

almost everything got some sort of flat buff, some even with points reductions.

no, we don’t have the same point for point customizability of s2d, but that was never the goal, imo. Every Ogor player I’ve talked to has felt the same: the core concept is what we want, we just need to be able to do it better.

i think this book does that. Not in every way I expected, not in every way I wanted, but it’s there, and I’m excited to try out some new builds. This is exactly what we needed, barring a range refresh on finecast models, and an expansion of units which I’ll hold out hope for with end of edition expansion releases.

Yeah I am excited about it but in the same way that I am excited when a video game balance patch doesn't destroy a character I like. My Beastclaws were largely left alone but my Stonehorns and Thundertusks seem much more fun to play.

They also finally gave what I most wanted and needed Gnoblar Synergy. I do have a few disappointments about the lack of new model support and still wish some of the more unique models like the Fire Bellies had a more significant role in the army but overall it seems like a nice update to the rules that did not need to reinvent the wheel.

Slaves to Darkness on the other hand just seems unbelievably good both in terms of rules updates and new models. So it is hard to balance the general excitement of the new Ogors with the sheer joy of the New S2D book. 

Luckily as someone with both I can now add my new chaos knights to my backlog as I get busy Smashing Lines of heavily Armoured Knights with angry monsters that charge through their line to eat some tasty objective camping cultists. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Neverchosen

[Sahrial]

2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Yeah I am excited about it but in the same way that I am excited when a balance patch doesn't destroy a character I like. My Beastclaws were largely left alone but my Stonehorns and Thundertusks seem much more fun to play.

They also finally gave what I most wanted and needed Gnoblar Synergy. I do have a few disappointments about the lack of new model support and still wish some of the more unique models like the Fire Bellies had a more significant role in the army but overall it seems like a nice update to the rules that did not need to reinvent the wheel.

Slaves to Darkness on the other hand just seems unbelievably good both in terms of rules updates and new models. So it is hard to balance the general excitement of the new Ogors with the sheer joy of the New S2D book. 

Luckily as someone with both I can now add my new chaos knights to my backlog as I get busy Smashing Lines of heavily Armoured Knights with angry monsters that charge through their line to eat some tasty objective camping cultists. 

Exactly. The two aren’t really comparable. Ogors got a facelift, S2D got, in a lot of ways, an overhaul.

Both got what they needed.

[Baron Klatz]

2 hours ago, EntMan said:

Hey there my friend, Sigmar is recruiting you know. Just call out his name as you die.

Or get smacked by Ghal Maraz(or soul judged by an Sacrosanct) and switch sides entirely to the good guys team. ⚡️👍

 

Anyway mixed feelings on the news.

StD size increase: Awesome! Now we can have true battles of the gods as Chosen & Stormcast colossi stride the battlefield covered in blue and black lightning raging overhead. 

Ogors: sad my theories of the Bloodpelt being a Man-Eater BCR hero were for nought. And likely means no Man-Eaters for Warcry(Bloodhunt likely will be Khorne vs Vampires now).

The Tome sounds good though, pretty much the Skaven & Deepkin deal of keeping it similar with no huge power leaps but giving buffs where needed and more open sub-factions to help out builds. Can’t say I’m sad to see there’s still a line between Gutbusters & BCR as they are very different tribes(if it wasn’t for the Necroquake they wouldn’t even be able to mingle without the Gutbusters freezing to death too, but it is creeping back into strength now that Alarielle & Teclis dispelled that) so they shouldn’t go full hog on mashing together but there’s still enough useful abilities between the Sub-factions & BCR units like Mournfangs to give Gutbusters a frozen dinner aka Everwinter cafe. ❄️ 🍽 

[Beliman]

49 minutes ago, Sahrial said:

no, we don’t have the same point for point customizability of s2d, but that was never the goal, imo. Every Ogor player I’ve talked to has felt the same: the core concept is what we want, we just need to be able to do it better.

i think this book does that. Not in every way I expected, not in every way I wanted, but it’s there, and I’m excited to try out some new builds. This is exactly what we needed, barring a range refresh on finecast models, and an expansion of units which I’ll hold out hope for with end of edition expansion releases.

Hey, I don't want to cause any harm to my beloved Ogor players! Everyone should enjoy whatever they like!

But just to point it out, as I already said (4 times), I don't care about the power-level of this book! I'm not asking about giving marks to everyone, it's just that I love to build my unique units and see them represented on the table with their own mechanics (aka, rules), and that's exactly the feel that I had after reading Slaves to Darkness book (with their own flavour as marks and their chaotic stuff).

I'm a big fan of QoL (and as a KO player, we are in extreme need of QoL) but I don't see any trace of the same philosophy from Slaves To Darkness book in this one. As I already said, If you take a Firebelly as your warlord, you can only chose 1 Ogor Trait (without using the Core ones)!!

Maybe AoS is not what I think it is and it will never be a wargame with a lot of customization options, but after reading the Slaves to Darkness book, I had the impresion that AoS was shifting a bit.

Maybe it's just my fault after all, I don't even play Ogors! I'm just a grumpy, flying, steampunk-pirate, dwarf waiting for his book!

Edited November 5, 2022 by Beliman

[Sahrial]

16 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Hey, I don't want to cause any harm to my beloved Ogor players! Everyone should enjoy whatever they like!

But just to point it out, as I already said (4 times), I don't care about the power-level of this book! I'm not asking about giving marks to everyone, it's just that I love to build my unique units and see them represented on the table with their own mechanics (aka, rules), and that's exactly the feel that I had after reading Slaves to Darkness book (with their own flavour as marks and their chaotic stuff).

I'm a big fan of QoL (and as a KO player, we are in extreme need of QoL) but I don't see any trace of the same philosophy from Slaves To Darkness book in this one. As I already said, If you take a Firebelly as your warlord, you can only chose 1 Ogor Trait (without using the Core ones)!!

Maybe AoS is not what I think it is and it will never be a wargame with a lot of customization options, but after reading the Slaves to Darkness book, I had the impresion that AoS was shifting a bit.

Maybe it's just my fault after all, I don't even play Ogors! I'm just a grumpy, flying, steampunk-pirate, dwarf waiting for his book!

And that’s fine too! I think s2d is great for that!

Ogors is about breaking open a cold one with the lads and having a simple good time.

(a cold one, of course, being a half frozen Stormcast Eternal)

[Mutton]

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm disappointed with the AoS rule team after this Ogro Mawtribes book. Not because they are bad or anything (they seems to have the stats to make a push in the meta). I don't care at all how good they are or if they can top tournaments, but the philosophy behind the book seems to go back instead of trying to improve the game. Let me explain:

If you read the leaked Slaves to Darkness book, everybody can see that there is A LOT of customization (again, ignore the competitive scene). You have a lot to play around: trait and artifact (as usual), each unit with Marks of Chaos (with an active and passive abilities) and even a Banner that can improve this marks. But that's not all, they still have the Eye of the Gods going on for a lot of heroes (or even units if you want, just take the mark and combo with subfaction, spells, prayers and Hero Actions). That's without looking at their new qnd awesome profiles!

So, the whole point is how far can players customize their own (aka, personal and unique) Slaves to Darkness army without the ****** Artifact+Trait combo. Answer: A lot!  THAT'S AWESOME!!

And then the Ogor Mawtribe book throw everything to the bin:

1. Your traits and artifacts are locked behind something (maybe keywords, maybe one unit). So if your warlord is a Suneater, you probably will have 1 trait that will only affect 1 unit in your entire army (hurra), and maybe 2 or 3 artifacts that 90% of ALL heroes from other Ogor players are going to use
   Remember, unique and personal army? sure...
2. If you try to combine Gutbusters and beastclaw riders, you will lose half of the synergies and the player will feel bad because THAT'S NOT what wargamers want.
   NPE experience without even playing the game!
3. And even after focusing only on BCR, you still have diferent untis that will not use your main battle traits or customization options because [reasons].

Sorry for the rant, but IMO, Slaves to Darkness book seems to be 1 step forward and this battletome seems to be 2 steps backward.

I think there are a lot of cool things in the Mawtribes book (Meatfist boys here we come), but also a lot of highly questionable decisions. There are rules in this book that I read and say "Who the hell thought this would be useful in any capacity?" Maneaters are still bad--having 12 wounds with a 5+ save was awful last edition and still worse in this one, and they're pointed like some kind of elite unit. The Tyrant still hits like a wet noodle and they took his awesome CA away...I don't know who in their design studio refuses to give Tyrants more/better attacks, but they can go to hell.

Also, why the hell are Ironguts 270 points?! Even the new Chaos Chosen, patently better versions of the Heavy Infantry archtype, are 240. I think we'll definitely be seeing some needed points drops in the future for Mawtribes.

I'm still looking forward to trying them out. I think it'll be very similar, but with even less models on the board and potentially higher damage output. We'll see if the changes were enough to get them out of the 40% bracket.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Mutton

[Arzalyn]

56 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I'm a big fan of QoL (and as a KO player, we are in extreme need of QoL) but I don't see any trace of the same philosophy from Slaves To Darkness book in this one. As I already said, If you take a Firebelly as your warlord, you can only chose 1 Ogor Trait (without using the Core ones)!!

Maybe AoS is not what I think it is and it will never be a wargame with a lot of customization options, but after reading the Slaves to Darkness book, I had the impresion that AoS was shifting a bit.

I imagine they are avoiding going to deep in options and customizations to make it less complex than 40k. Some factions end getting a little more as limiting it to a couple of factions don't affect the game as a whole. 

Now about the shifts between books, the pattern so far is:

- does the army play has you would expect lore wise with their last tome? If yes, you get minor changes (idoneth, fyreslayers, DoK, skaven, lumineth, Tzeentch, giants, ogors fall in this category).

- does the army have major cognitive dissonance or bad mechanics? If yes, major changes (Nurgle, Nighthaunt, sylvaneth and slaves fall here).

Of the remaining tomes to come in 3rd I imagine Gitz, khorne and Slaanesh will see the most changes in the future. May KO as well, but mostly because the mechanics are really convoluted.

[Mutton]

I just can't believe they had two attempts to make Maneaters playable and squandered both of them. I guess maybe if they were like, 140 points?

[JackStreicher]

20 minutes ago, Mutton said:

I just can't believe they had two attempts to make Maneaters playable and squandered both of them. I guess maybe if they were like, 140 points?

They quite often make the same mistakes several times. Might be a lack of allocated resources or time 🤷🏼‍♂️
but c‘mon, what do you expect from a billion dollar company and aluxury product for 40€? 😉 

—-

Imo the Community should more often fix whatever the designers break or neglect.

Edited November 5, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

- does the army play has you would expect lore wise with their last tome? If yes, you get minor changes (idoneth, fyreslayers, DoK, skaven, lumineth, Tzeentch, giants, ogors fall in this category).

- does the army have major cognitive dissonance or bad mechanics? If yes, major changes (Nurgle, Nighthaunt, sylvaneth and slaves fall here).

I completely agree and I didn't expect a whole remake or anything like that. What I'm saying is giving some type of flavour abilities that player can interact and play with (like Marks or enhancements). 
E.g: if BCR have new Monster Rampages and Mount Traits, Guttbusters could have a table of "Big Names" for unit's champion (some type of Regiments of Renown) for each Guttbuster Hero in your army (or a new special enhancement):

1. Good ol'boys: Can take wounds from Guttbusters Heroes near 3"
2. Spelltasters: Can take wounds from Miscasts from Heroes near 3" and -1 to cast for enemy wizards near 3" (or whatever).
3. Mercenaries: Gain Maneaters keyword and the ability "Been there, done that"
4. Beautyful people: Enemy units near 3" can't use or recieve Rally or use the Inspiring Presence Command Abilities.
5. Beast-lovers: If they are within 12" of a Monster or Rhinox unit, they can run&charge.
6. Big little ladz: Ad +1 to save rolls for gnoblars within 12" of this unit.

Maybe they are too strong, I don't know and I don't care, it's just an example. They are clearly not Marks of Chaos, but they give "more" options for competitive AND narrative players and they can be combined with a lot of their own synergies.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Beliman

[Sigmarusvult]

So S2D got nerf on release. I almost feel bad for all the influencers who did their review  before knowing this would happen 😂 

[Mutton]

14 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

So S2D got nerf on release. I almost feel bad for all the influencers who did their review  before knowing this would happen 😂 

 

They still got free stuff so I'm sure they'll survive.

[Goatforce]

17 minutes ago, Sigmarusvult said:

So S2D got nerf on release. I almost feel bad for all the influencers who did their review  before knowing this would happen 😂 

I honestly don't think the nerfs are that massive a deal though. Yes a few really powerful things got nerfed (the 4+ Rally by the look of it), but the impressions given by reviews of the book don't seem to be invalidated by the FAQ, and the book still seems really strong. Also now the Youtubers and Streamers can make new videos on how the changes effect the book, which seems like more views as far as I can tell, so I wouldn't feel too sorry for them 😛

 

[Sigmarusvult]

14 minutes ago, Mutton said:

They still got free stuff so I'm sure they'll survive.

I can see them looking at their free king brodd and still feel rejected for not being part of the inner-inner circle 🤪

[EntMan]

1 hour ago, Sigmarusvult said:

So S2D got nerf on release. I almost feel bad for all the influencers who did their review  before knowing this would happen 😂 

 

Well the Sunday Preview last week did say there'd be corrections released today. But they probably didn't realise the extent...

 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

The 4+ Rally and probably also the Nurgle Banner really needed those nerfs, though. And I say that as an S2D fan. I'm a little sad about the casting number increase on Speed of Chaos, but at least the Lore of Consistently High Casting Values the Damned is actually usable now with Draw on Power. Overall, I'd say the changes were very healthy for the state of the game.

[KingBrodd]

New Model Monday for the Gloomspite Warband?