pnkdth Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 48 minutes ago, Enoby said: I don't want to say it's broken, but I can see some potential issues. If it's +1 damage against any (non-mount) battleline, then I'm afraid the game may become more rocket tag, where whoever strikes first wins. In addition, +1 damage is perhaps the most dangerous buff to give out because it doesn't scale equally. As we've seen with Decimators, +1 damage gets better for every attack you have, so now battleline units with multiple attacks are considerably better. It would have been better if it was additional rend or +1 to wound - still very useful, but not quite "wipe your unit off the board with a sneeze useful". I like that they're being experimental, but I'm worried it will have unintended consequences that will break some units while leaving others useless. It remains to be seen, but the more general something is, the more problems it's prone to. Personally, I'm at a loss. It is like the took the issue of coherency and then created the most convoluted way possible to solve it and then over-correct it with additional bloat. A part of me is curious to see just how far the tournament scene can take this though. From a design POV, you get the impression the design team wants to solve it but are forced to do it in the dumbest way possible by corporate to sell more books. Hence we get this design by committee monstrosity. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) (Removed) Edited June 15, 2022 by PrimeElectrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) I'd like to imagine both the GHB battalions are limited to 1 per army like hunters was, and if the +1 damage is only a single unit it might not be too much. A lot of the top tier armies have overkill damage anyways. Edited June 15, 2022 by Ganigumo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Ganigumo said: I'd like to imagine both the GHB battalions are limited to 1 per army like hunters was, and if the +1 damage is only a single unit it might not be too much. A lot of the top tier armies have overkill damage anyways. It is probably just like the Thondia battalions (0-1 of each per army) Edited June 15, 2022 by PJetski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahrial Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Yknow what GW fine I’m gonna make all my mournfang bounty hunters and lose every game but wreck all your puny veterans I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrispyXIV Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) Interested in if there's any restriction on Tome battle tactics which may be easier... Edited June 15, 2022 by KrispyXIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I don't mind a switch from monsters to infantry. I already knew a year ago that they would do exactly that. It pushes people to buy new models. Almost all of the battle tactics benefited when accomplished by monsters. Now new battle tactics will favor these veterans. In a year it will be heroes or wizards or whatever to make people buy additional models. I'm not angry because of that. It keeps the game fresh and I don't care about the tournament meta. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 We don't know the full rules of the bounty hunter battalion yet, for all we know it could be 0-1 consisting of 1 non reenforced unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Thanks Sigmar for such a GHB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastus Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, novakai said: Maybe next season is on a steeple and there rules for mounted Cavalry units lol Nah, can we just make Artillery relevant for a change? Most of these poor pieces of scrap are generally outclassed by regular ranged units. Edited June 15, 2022 by Vastus 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I am going to opt out of the GHB this time I do not play enough lately and when I do we have been going mostly core rules. Still sounds like a fun spanner in the works... Also no this has nothing to do with having just completed my Ogors... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverchosen Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Vastus said: Nah, can we just make Artillery relevant for a change? Most of these poor pieces of scrap are generally outclassed by regular ranged units. I just want artillery to fill a different niche tbh. I don't care if it is outclassed by regular unit generally but artillery needs at least a niche. Make it strong against hordes or develop siege mechanics and give artillery a role... heck giving it something like monsterous actions would be best just give it something to make it different from a regular unit. Edited June 15, 2022 by Neverchosen 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, novakai said: I believe it melee attacks only Ah, that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Enoby said: Also, as an aside, they mention that the points are in a separate book: "It’s bundled with a 34-page Pitched Battle Profiles book with all the latest points values, which will also be available online for free." This is fine and all, but a little disappointing to hear - I'd hoped they'd stopped putting points in the GHB so they could update points more reactively online, rather than being restricted by print. I'm hoping this is the last GHB that ties points to print it makes sense to have one last print run before going all digital. The obvious caveat being "this is GW" of course... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: I'm hoping this is the last GHB that ties points to print it makes sense to have one last print run before going all digital. The obvious caveat being "this is GW" of course... They are doing both, printed and updated online. Was stated at the last preview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyantheFett Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 Any rough idea when we will get the point changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogregut Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, RyantheFett said: Any rough idea when we will get the point changes? Reveiwers will go over the book on Saturday and the app will be updated next week just before or on release day. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 How many more weeks is Horus Herest on Pre Order? Is this the last with release next week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Enoby said: I don't want to say it's broken, but I can see some potential issues. If it's +1 damage against any (non-mount) battleline, then I'm afraid the game may become more rocket tag, where whoever strikes first wins. In addition, +1 damage is perhaps the most dangerous buff to give out because it doesn't scale equally. As we've seen with Decimators, +1 damage gets better for every attack you have, so now battleline units with multiple attacks are considerably better. It would have been better if it was additional rend or +1 to wound - still very useful, but not quite "wipe your unit off the board with a sneeze useful". I like that they're being experimental, but I'm worried it will have unintended consequences that will break some units while leaving others useless. It remains to be seen, but the more general something is, the more problems it's prone to. I'm not worried because melee is not shooting. You can screen, redeploy, control charges or moving and the action is going to be in just one focused zone of the map, and if you crush my unit with your battalion you can die under my battallion too. I think every change I see is good for the game, and better than the damm monster mash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, KingBrodd said: How many more weeks is Horus Herest on Pre Order? Is this the last with release next week? The box is comming out this Saturday Next week is the GHB and Sylvaneath/Skaven stuff. they said that they would get the new paint stuff out in July and there is still the CSM release left on the table 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Ragest said: I'm not worried because melee is not shooting. You can screen, redeploy, control charges or moving and the action is going to be in just one focused zone of the map, and if you crush my unit with your battalion you can die under my battallion too. I think every change I see is good for the game, and better than the damm monster mash. I don't think this is any better for the game than monster mash, just different. It'll change the game up for sure but as with any change this broad the impact will be extremely uneven. For example Tzeentch is already suffering pretty miserably (i think about a 30% win rate last time the tourney stats were posted?) and they get absolutely wrecked with this update. They have no good combat units to take advantage of the new bonuses (the best would be tzaangor but without rend they're still going to be mediocre) and the horrors, which are their last viable unit, will get absolutely demolished now that good combat units do double the damage against them. You can't screen for them because they are the screen, and it doesn't matter if they count as 3 models when they're all dead. On the other hand Nurgle, an army that is already doing really well, is going to get even better. Plaguebearers are resilient enough to handle the extra damage and counting as 3 models will be huge. Also doubling the damage for blight kings is just a really terrible idea on GW's part. I've been pondering the change all morning and thinking about how it would affect my armies and this is what I'm thinking will happen: if your army already had cost effective battleline that you were taking anyway then these changes will be great for you because they just got much better. If your army had bad battleline that you were avoiding then these changes might actually make things worse because the impact of extra damage will outweigh the impact of extra scenario pressure. On top of that you might be forced to take more bad battleline in order to complete tactics/stragegies, weakening your army overall. If you didn't take infantry battleline to begin with then gamewise it won't matter much, but you're in real senario trouble because you have no veterans to do the specific tactics or grand strategies. Edited June 15, 2022 by Grimrock 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukishiro1 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 (edited) Bounty Hunter looks hugely problematic, depending on the details (and badly designed regardless of the details, frankly, because +1 damage is such a weird buff of differing value to different stuff). Typical war-com article to tease that with no details while "revealing" absolute junk like that fights-last CA. Edited June 15, 2022 by yukishiro1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahrial Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, yukishiro1 said: Bounty Hunter looks hugely problematic, depending on the details (and badly designed regardless of the details, frankly, because +1 damage is such a weird buff of differing value to different stuff). Typical war-com article to tease that with no details while "revealing" absolute junk like that fights-last CA. “We Realized Coalesced Was Bad. Here’s the opposite of that. Which is good. Yes. Good. Give us money now.” 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Ogregut said: They are doing both, printed and updated online. Was stated at the last preview. Right. Except if they are still printing points, any digital updates are STILL hamstrung by waiting for print. Which is why I said I hope this is the last printed points update; because going full digital means they can do spot-updates or even quarterly updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 1 hour ago, novakai said: The box is comming out this Saturday Next week is the GHB and Sylvaneath/Skaven stuff. they said that they would get the new paint stuff out in July and there is still the CSM release left on the table Good stuff thanks mate!! Really hoping we start that 3 week AOSpalooza soon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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