The Rumour Thread

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

I've been looking into 3d printing a bit but for the average casual gamer this just isnt worth it. The printers cost a lot and that isnt including the resin u have to buy. Then there is the trial and error of getting all the settings just right and the massive amount of time u need to print and clean all the models. This also doesnt include the actual model designs u need to print. These also cost a lot and many dont even have bases included or the needed supports. Unless u plan to sell models or print massive amounts of models it just isnt worth it imo with all the cost and effort compared to just buying models. This also doesnt include the fact that i have absolutely no time to paint all the minis. One more thing is that i like building large kits with 100+ parts, 3d printing doesnt really work that way.

I do think its a good thing GW has some kind of competition. Some studios make some awesome looking models and terrain. I think it is good for the hobby overall.

Tldr: Dont think GW needs to be scared of 3d printing for a long time. 

For about 180 Euro you can have a decent 3d printer (they are on sale every few months) and two liters of resin. Add some 20 for stuff around it that isn't already in the box (there is enough for about the first half a liter).

A liter of resin would do some 60-80 28mm models so some 120-160 models total. Going for cheap GW models, that many Stabbas (though they are small and would get a little more mileage) would be 227.5 so is close, but add anything else and resin printing wins out massively. Especially heroes.

Quality is good enough on my Photon that (if you don't mind a long print time) no striations remain after priming. Now that quality isn't really convenient for a company, because they want more results than two prints per working day.

Effort is a concern I share, handling resin and cleaning the workplace with protective equipment is less fun than clipping off models from a sprue.

My STLs are never out of stock, the diversity is massive and I can scale them up and down to a good degree if I want things to match other stuff.

[Gitzdee]

14 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

For about 180 Euro you can have a decent 3d printer (they are on sale every few months) and two liters of resin. Add some 20 for stuff around it that isn't already in the box (there is enough for about the first half a liter).

A liter of resin would do some 60-80 28mm models so some 120-160 models total. Going for cheap GW models, that many Stabbas (though they are small and would get a little more mileage) would be 227.5 so is close, but add anything else and resin printing wins out massively. Especially heroes.

Quality is good enough on my Photon that (if you don't mind a long print time) no striations remain after priming. Now that quality isn't really convenient for a company, because they want more results than two prints per working day.

Effort is a concern I share, handling resin and cleaning the workplace with protective equipment is less fun than clipping off models from a sprue.

My STLs are never out of stock, the diversity is massive and I can scale them up and down to a good degree if I want things to match other stuff.

Yeah but u also have to buy loads of cleaning materials and maybe different kinds of resin. U almost need a dedicated ventilated space for printing/cleaning and curing. This also doesnt include the cost for spare parts needed along the way. Long story short it has a lot of hidden costs and the tech is far away from just plugging it in and press start. Sure it can be worth it for some people but its a hobby on its own for now imho.

[japaricio]

FAQs are near the corner. GW has updated the App with the Nurgle Battletome (which was the last step before the FAQs), the WD rules for Sons, Seraphon and CoS, and some nice improvements in the lists export. So... positives vibes they are coming really soon!

[Marcvs]

31 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

Yeah but u also have to buy loads of cleaning materials and maybe different kinds of resin. U almost need a dedicated ventilated space for printing/cleaning and curing. This also doesnt include the cost for spare parts needed along the way. Long story short it has a lot of hidden costs and the tech is far away from just plugging it in and press start. Sure it can be worth it for some people but its a hobby on its own for now imho.

Agreed, the entry cost (and time and space requirements) are still very important.

On the other hand, I can go on Etsy and buy a cool foot hero from a local printing shop for 20% of the GW price and have great variety -and even comparable quality if you are buying a freeguild general for your cities army.

A very anecdotal sign of this pressure is that local tournaments in my area used to run on "GW only" o "alternatives ok but you must have the original model" and this year have switched to "all model ok as long as wyswyg and pre approved" (and they are building a repository of models which were approved in the past)

[Kaleb Daark]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

So, we've had this debate around 40K, right-wing extremist fans and GW's statement that the Imperium are not the good guys but a xenophobic fascist warmachine under perpetual martial law and Gestapo-like surveillance...and then here comes the Space Marine 2 trailer and the Ubermensch ****** super soldiers are the glorious heroes again. Because nothing matters anymore.

That Ultramarines protagonist should have shot the guardsman. 

(I guess I do come across as salty sometimes. I'm sorry. Winter sucks.)

You know what you elfy Nogrin, I'd actually say that somewhere in the bowels of the mother ship when all that kicked off someone probably said " really.. I mean..really?" 

We've had a funny two years where people now look for anything to be angry about, and if they don't find it they get angry about not finding something to be angry about.  I mean come on, one can argue that Disney/marvel should appologise for a bunch of human fascists deciding to decapitate an albeit miguided eco warrior who just wanted an end to suffering, famine and illness,

that lucasfilm should appologise for the destruction of alderan as an act of genocide and that JRR Tolkien should apologise for not seeing it from Sauron's point of view and why can't an orc identify as an ent if he's gnarly enough.

58 minutes ago, RamsesIII said:

To play devil's advocate, while I don't think it does so as effectively as Dawn of War for example, the first Space Marine game does a decent job at showing the dystopian side of the Imperium of Mankind, both in the hypocrisy of some of its members in authority and the tough life of imperial citizens even when you exclude the threat of invasion.

I've also seen people speculate that Titus (the main guy in the trailer) passing through and not acknowledging the guardsman might hint that he's more war-weary and emotionally disconnected than in the first game (where he was pretty nice guy for a space marine... stern and mission-focused, but appreciative if the guard's efforts). Overall I absolutely agree that GW could display the darker side of the Imperium more often in marketing and social media, but I don't think the Space Marine 2 trailer is that bad. Keep in mind the trailer announced a game that many people thought dead and that probably played its role in the "heroic" feel of it, like a "look who's back!" kind of deal, plus it does kinda suit Titus despite the nature of the empire he fights for.

Indeed, and if you read the latest Uriel Ventris novel you're told that to cross the rubicon Primaris actually makes you lose some of the things that make you 'human'. Uriel and the other Primaris realised that they now cared very little for the humans they were created to protect over and above the act of fighting for the imperium.  I think that scene in the trailer puts this across really well.

8 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

Yeah but u also have to buy loads of cleaning materials and maybe different kinds of resin. U almost need a dedicated ventilated space for printing/cleaning and curing. This also doesnt include the cost for spare parts needed along the way. Long story short it has a lot of hidden costs and the tech is far away from just plugging it in and press start. Sure it can be worth it for some people but its a hobby on its own for now imho.

You're right.  a plastic injection moulding setup will smash out probably the best part of five to ten sprues a minute.

3d printing on the scale that GW would need price for price would be comparable - we used to have 3d printers and laser sintering printers at my old job and they rolled in at around 250k each with all the toys needed for cleaning and post curing the parts to harden them off etc.  Speed was not their forte, and if we wanted speed we sacrificed on quality with the banding layers becoming more pronounced (we aimed for 2-5 microns normally)

Where you win with 3d printing is in storage, because you essentially can truly build to order on an as needed basis.

You could almost go back to the old GW business model where you could buy individual bits of models again as with 3d printing it's worth doing from a cost perspective.  Customer just wants a set of Manticore wings - fine, just print them off.

They used to do this once, and then realised that it was costing them more to make the individual bits than it was making them money as they had to pull those old moulds out and make just one part from them.

Case in point, one year they made some bits or other for some empire thing, and it turned out the price paid didn't cover cost of materials and to add salt to the wound it was ordered by a gw employee so he got 50% off anyway!

Aerospace companies use them quite a lot for fittings and other bits and bobs because you don't have to keep a warehouse full fo stuff, and when you know you don't see more than 100 ordered a year then it makes perfect sense.

I wouldn't dismiss it entirely for someone like GW but in reality 3d printing isn't there for volume production, sure it has a place, but massive production volumes isn't it.  Where it wins is in the ability to just smash something out without a requirement quantity of x thousand units to make it viable.

Also consider that it would be like going back to trying to work with resin or metal until a polystyrene based medium is available to print with, so superglue it is.

 

Obviously this means that for Nogrins knife ears he can get extra heroic ear extensions and all chaos dwarfs can have decent parts on their skull cracker as opposed to the parts looking like swiss cheese.

 

Ohhhh... did someone say CHAOS DWARFS?

[Kaleb Daark]

5 minutes ago, japaricio said:

FAQs are near the corner. GW has updated the App with the Nurgle Battletome (which was the last step before the FAQs), the WD rules for Sons, Seraphon and CoS, and some nice improvements in the lists export. So... positives vibes they are coming really soon!

must be a dwarf in charge of all that then.

[PrimeElectrid]

26 minutes ago, japaricio said:

FAQs are near the corner. GW has updated the App with the Nurgle Battletome (which was the last step before the FAQs), the WD rules for Sons, Seraphon and CoS, and some nice improvements in the lists export. So... positives vibes they are coming really soon!

[Public Universal Duardin]

But, @Kaleb Daark you're framing it wrong. GW hasn't apologised that they made the Imperium fascist, they instead told in no unclear terms that Imperium is not something positive, or worthy of praise. It's a wildly different framing, and I don't feel your examples are applicable - surely nobody wants GW to apologise for the Imperium? People just want GW to not glorify it, especially if they are themselves painfully aware that the hobby has some nasty people who definitely don't understand that the Imperium isn't something to want to emulate "irl".

I won't push this thread further from...well, ok, we don't have any rumours, but either way, I won't delve on this too long. I'll just show my disapproval on you framing transgender identity as something laughable. Not cool, man. Not cool.

[PrimeElectrid]

This image is doing the rounds this morning, no idea as to credibility and no additional context (are there more changes and any warscroll updates?)

 

[Yondaime]

16 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

This image is doing the rounds this morning, no idea as to credibility and no additional context (are there more changes and any warscroll updates?)

 

Why would they kill the poor BT this way lol, khorne is already c tier at best

Also people cried so much about dragons, but i tryed few game and the only thing that makes them strong is the shooting, they are relatively pillow fisted

Thats right, big ferocius dragon knights, the dragons vengeance incarnate is strong for his shooting

They are already borderline fine at 340, at 370 they will suck

Even Karazai at 600pts is a joke imho

Edited December 15, 2021 by Yondaime

[Enoby]

16 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

This image is doing the rounds this morning, no idea as to credibility and no additional context (are there more changes and any warscroll updates?)

 

Every supposed leak and I see nothing about these 😭

[Elazar The Glorified]

10 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Every supposed leak and I see nothing about these 😭

That there were no Pestigor with Maggotkin makes me wonder if they're holding onto them for Beasts and the Slaangor will get refreshed rules there as they probably just need starting over as you would for a new Battletome... But this just my blind optimism that the potential negative here is a bigger positive down the line in the form of a decent Beasts of Chaos refresh!

[MitGas]

41 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I'd actually say that somewhere in the bowels of the mother ship when all that kicked off someone probably said " really.. I mean..really?" 

We've had a funny two years where people now look for anything to be angry about, and if they don't find it they get angry about not finding something to be angry about.  I mean come on, one can argue that Disney/marvel should appologise for a bunch of human fascists deciding to decapitate an albeit miguided eco warrior who just wanted an end to suffering, famine and illness,

that lucasfilm should appologise for the destruction of alderan as an act of genocide and that JRR Tolkien should apologise for not seeing it from Sauron's point of view and why can't an orc identify as an ent if he's gnarly enough.

Thank you for the common sense injection, it's sorely lacking here at times. Seriously, it's pretty damn sad if people take the Imperium at face value (and shows how immature that person's POV is) but complaining about video game developers (it's not even GW!) glorifying Space Marines, when they're the obvious cash cow and what most people like (and thus will sell), that's VEEEERY far removed from sanity as well. If it bothers someone, they need to go find a new hobby immediately. 

George Lucas made 3 movies about Darth Vader, who stood for everything you don't like and yet is a popular figure cause we ca expect that people understand that he's not real. You got Empire stuff as well, even shows and games where they are the protagonists and not every second someone tells them (or you) how evil they are. Go complain about that too, please.

And don't speak for me with ****** like "People just want GW to not glorify it" ... I want them to glorify the Imperium of Man as much as they want! It's their fiction, let them write and portray it the way they want. I understand the context and am not mentally challenged as to not be able to differentiate between reality and fiction and don't think that the creators of said fiction propagate certain beliefs a key faction in their universe has.. Stop trying to think for others - or even worse: forces edits and footnotes you agree with - cause that is fascist. Some of you guys are like  the ones saying video games turn kids into killers when out 10000000 kids who played a particular game one does something horrible. The fault doesn't lie with the game, it lies with the kid. 

Seriously, it's starting to hurt.

[Enoby]

6 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I understand the context and am not mentally challenged as to not be able to differentiate between reality and fiction

++Mod Hat++

No one is struggling to differentiate reality from fiction, and you're coming off as very aggressive in what has so far been a civil discussion - not to mention suggesting that those you disagree with about the effects fiction can have on reality are 'mentally challenged'.

The rumour thread, as Public Universal Duardin has already said, isn't really the place to discuss this (though I appreciate it's hard to stay on topic when we hardly have any AoS rumours). But regardless, your tone is not conductive to any sort of reasonable discussion. 

[Marcvs]

12 minutes ago, MitGas said:

George Lucas made 3 movies about Darth Vader, who stood for everything you don't like and yet is a popular figure cause we ca expect that people understand that he's not real. You got Empire stuff as well, even shows and games where they are the protagonists and not every second someone tells them (or you) how evil they are. Go complain about that too, please.

And don't speak for me with ****** like "People just want GW to not glorify it" ... I want them to glorify the Imperium of Man as much as they want! It's their fiction, let them write and portray it the way they want. I understand the context and am not mentally challenged as to not be able to differentiate between reality and fiction and don't think that the creators of said fiction propagate certain beliefs a key faction in their universe has.. Stop trying to think for others - or even worse: forces edits and footnotes you agree with - cause that is fascist. Some of you guys are like  the ones saying video games turn kids into killers when out 10000000 kids who played a particular game one does something horrible. The fault doesn't lie with the game, it lies with the kid. 

Seriously, it's starting to hurt.

And yet, not many people have a hard time telling that Darth Vader is the evil one. So, your example proves that you can portray a successful figure and still make it aboundantly clear that he's the villain.

The problem with the videogame and the representation of space marines is that on the one hand GW itself says "hey, this is satire, the Imperium is actually bad" but the entire mainstream representation (it gets better in the books but these are quite niche compared to videogames) shows space marines as heroes. This is what the original post was about so IMHO your whole answer completly misses the target.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

56 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

This image is doing the rounds this morning, no idea as to credibility and no additional context (are there more changes and any warscroll updates?)

 

If these points are accurate, the Nagash drop only really makes sense if there are other changes in my opinion. Like him not benefitting from subfactions anymore, as was suggested previously.

 

EDIT: Kind of finding it dubious that Stormdrake Guard are at 370, not 340 as previously announced.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Maogrim]

19 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Thank you for the common sense injection, it's sorely lacking here at times. Seriously, it's pretty damn sad if people take the Imperium at face value (and shows how immature that person's POV is) but complaining about video game developers (it's not even GW!) glorifying Space Marines, when they're the obvious cash cow and what most people like (and thus will sell), that's VEEEERY far removed from sanity as well. If it bothers someone, they need to go find a new hobby immediately. 

George Lucas made 3 movies about Darth Vader, who stood for everything you don't like and yet is a popular figure cause we ca expect that people understand that he's not real. You got Empire stuff as well, even shows and games where they are the protagonists and not every second someone tells them (or you) how evil they are. Go complain about that too, please.

And don't speak for me with ****** like "People just want GW to not glorify it" ... I want them to glorify the Imperium of Man as much as they want! It's their fiction, let them write and portray it the way they want. I understand the context and am not mentally challenged as to not be able to differentiate between reality and fiction and don't think that the creators of said fiction propagate certain beliefs a key faction in their universe has.. Stop trying to think for others - or even worse: forces edits and footnotes you agree with - cause that is fascist. Some of you guys are like  the ones saying video games turn kids into killers when out 10000000 kids who played a particular game one does something horrible. The fault doesn't lie with the game, it lies with the kid. 

Seriously, it's starting to hurt.

Yes, you are very conservative and masculine. Good job, boy. Go get yourself a nice treat. And then maybe, on the way back, you can think about nicer things to say than questioning peoples' common sense and sanity just because they have a different opinion than you. You know, before you get yourself modded again.

To me this has been a 'put your money where your mouth is' sutuation. GW themselves said that they recognize what the problem with the Imperium and its attraction for right-wing hate groups is. They had the opportunity to act according to this understanding, and represent the regime in a less glorified way. In this case they clearly did not.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Maogrim

[Hellberg]

10 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Kind of finding it dubious that Stormdrake Guard are at 370, not 340 as previously announced.

There was a rumour few days ago (in this thread I believe) that they are going to go up in points again. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Hellberg said:

There was a rumour few days ago (in this thread I believe) that they are going to go up in points again. 

In that case, I am finding that rumour dubious, too 😎

[MitGas]

26 minutes ago, Enoby said:

++Mod Hat++

No one is struggling to differentiate reality from fiction, and you're coming off as very aggressive in what has so far been a civil discussion - not to mention suggesting that those you disagree with about the effects fiction can have on reality are 'mentally challenged'.

The rumour thread, as Public Universal Duardin has already said, isn't really the place to discuss this (though I appreciate it's hard to stay on topic when we hardly have any AoS rumours). But regardless, your tone is not conductive to any sort of reasonable discussion. 

Naturally, cause they start to affect my personal freedom by asking for censorship of fiction! That's precisely what you're not supposed to do. It's hilarious that you guys don't even see the irony anymore. Plus it's fiction that everyone in their right mind can understand and process correctly. You can't blame the artwork if people use it wrongly. Vote with your wallet. You don't like GW handling their IP, stop playing Warhammer. 

 

23 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

Yes, you are very conservative and masculine. Good job, boy. Go get yourself a nice treat. And then maybe, on the way back, you can think about nicer things to say than questioning peoples' common sense and sanity just because they have a different opinion than you. You know, before you get yourself modded again.

To me this has been a 'put your money where your mouth is' sutuation. GW themselves said that they recognize what the problem with the Imperium and its attraction for right-wing hate groups is. They had the opportunity to act according to this understanding, and represent the regime in a less glorified way. In this case they clearly did not.

 

You see, thankfully I'm not as whiny as you are cause in a fair world, you'd get modded right now - but thankfully I won't whine about it.

Edit: GW gave the developers the license in the game's case. For all you (or we) know, the Imperium might be portrayed as horrible in the game. You're talking a short intro - which is a tiny amount of all the data - and claim that this part stands for everything else in the game. You are probably right but still... it's a game about Space Marines. It would be atypical to portray them as horrible monsters in that exact moment. And if GW acknowledges things, you gotta give them time to act on those things. Change rarely happens instantly.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MitGas

[Still-young]

2 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Naturally, cause they start to affect my personal freedom by asking for censorship of fiction! That's precisely what you're not supposed to do. It's hilarious that you guys don't even see the irony anymore. Plus it's fiction that everyone in their right mind can understand and process correctly. You can't blame the artwork if people use it wrongly. Vote with your wallet. You don't like GW handling their IP, stop playing Warhammer. 

 

You see, thankfully I'm not as whiny as you are cause in a fair world, you'd get modded right now - but thankfully I won't whine about it.

They said, whiningly. 

[Gitzdee]

Or we could talk about things like rumours again.

[MitGas]

3 minutes ago, Still-young said:

They said, whiningly. 

Nah, I'd need to randomly be sad in a couple of days about it and mention it here again to be on Maogrim levels. But clever! Have a good one.

[Public Universal Duardin]

What a nice lunch I had, let's return to the rumour thread and see how the discussion continued the-

[Maogrim]

4 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Nah, I'd need to randomly be sad in a couple of days about it and mention it here again to be on Maogrim levels. But clever! Have a good one.

I don't get the amount of aggression these things bring out in you that you just can't help yourself and question my and other's intellectual capacities. I'm sure you're a great guy to know in private, but on these forums you sometimes come across as quite the opposite. 

Maybe I should put up a 

****MitGas-triggering content warning****

whenever I post something that's too left fot you too handle.