The Rumour Thread

[Trayanee]

12 minutes ago, Killax said:

For the same reason they made AoS without points from the getgo.... The start of AoS was a large experiment and it's rather obvious more people want a broader line of models to choose from within one faction.

The easiest way to give awnser to that call is to merge certain faction logically. It has happened with all the Chaos Battletomes so far, occurs within Legions of Nagash and quite frankly should do so. As a lot of splits make no sence (e.g. Warherds and Brayherds) and armies who didn't get split are still doing great (Seraphon). 
In reality there also no smaller factions as those divert to the Grand Allegiance which makes the faction huge again. It's just that most don't have to do this because their Allegiance wasn't split up into splinters. 

I agree with you that we don't need more (useless) Battalions (for Matched Play)...

7

7

I am still not convinced. The merging seems to be the fast and not the best solution to me. If we can agree that AOS is going to be there for many years more, there is plenty of time to develop all the smaller factions into something more. It just takes time. Hard merging closes many doors in my eyes and its currently done just because of the playerbase being impatient. There is of course also the opportunity for firestorm-like soft merging via multi-faction allegiances. For sure there are always exceptions like the herds you mentioned. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Trayanee

[Killax]

11 minutes ago, Trayanee said:

I am still not convinced. The merging seems to be the fast and not the best solution to me. If we can agree that AOS is going to be there for many years more, there is plenty of time to develop all the smaller factions into something more. It just takes time. Hard merging closes many doors in my eyes and its currently done just because of the playerbase being impatient. There is of course also the opportunity for firestorm-like soft merging via multi-faction allegiances. For sure there are always exceptions like the herds you mentioned. 

While AoS is doing well I doubt the intend of GW is to increase AoS lines just more and more any time soon. The prime reason why I am saying that is because AoS takes up a realistic ammount of shelf-space and 40K is still more popular. So what real life and numbers shows us is that currently it's not feasable or a smart idea to continue all sub-sub-factions as a stand-alone Allegiance/project. Instead the merge actually promotes cross-sales and this is why sub-sub-factions at least for the comming 2 years still should become sub-factions.

The one thing that is fundamentally untrue is that GW wouldn't be able to split the faction again if they see fit. E.g. can be found in Chaos again.
- 6th edition Hordes of Chaos included Chaos Warriors and Chaos Daemons in the same book.
- 7th and 8th edition WFB had a seperate Chaos Warriors and Chaos Daemons book.
- AoS' Bloodbound was seperate Khorne Warriors.
- AoS' Blades of Khorne is Khorne Warriors and Khorne Daemons again.
You can really split and unsplit as much as you see fit. What is typical is that if a single line doesn't sell all to well is to combine them with another.

Generally speaking it actually benifits a whole line to be larger instead of smaller. This is also why you can freely mix Imperium and Chaos in 40k and shows why GW focusses so much on them. This is also still seen in Grand Allegiance options and typically speaking I think the reason why Daughters of Khaine is a stand alone Battletome is because it will be followed with more Order Aelves that can easily Ally with them. We allready see a 'new' Battleline IF design and this means that while the books are seperate the armies arn't actually stand alone.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Killax

[DantePQ]

I agree with Killax here - merging is the best solution especially with factions that fit together - like Darkling Covens or Shadowblades. Also folding smaller factions into new factions make sense. I think merging Shadowblades with DoK would make great sense(but I doubt it will happen) but that's only one example. 

[Burf]

22 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

I agree with Killax here - merging is the best solution especially with factions that fit together - like Darkling Covens or Shadowblades. Also folding smaller factions into new factions make sense. I think merging Shadowblades with DoK would make great sense(but I doubt it will happen) but that's only one example. 

I personally don't see any real need to have more than 2 Chaos books.

[DantePQ]

I think Book for every God is cool (that would mean 5 books as Horned Rat is now of Chaos gods) as you can field Mixed Chaos army using Chaos Allegiance abilities and imtems. But more books is some kind of a waste. I would rather prefer faster cycle of new book - for example new Blades of Khorne book with extra units etc in few years then another Choas Book. 

I think AoS is too bloated with factions right know and merging them in bigger factions is only solution to change that fast and maybe release AoS 2nd edition in few years with refreshed Battletomes. 

[Turgol]

You guys are missing the point. You are seeing faction building as an optimization process from the point of view of players with big collections. AoS was born to sell more kits, because WHFB was so consolidated that the cycle of selling kits was reduced to selling new army book and couple of kits to people with large collection focused on one or another army. 

AoS (and new 40k) are meant to stop this from happening: have and create so much material that you are not trapped into the new edition, new army book, couple kits cycle. The idea is to nudge people not to only have a couple of armies and wait for next edition update, but keep experimenting with new factions, alliances, etc.

Small factions fulfil two roles: keep the illusion that almost all old models have a place and a future in AoS, and keep some room for low cost clever experimentation (FEC, BCR, Bonesplitterz) or salvaging into a really new faction (Sylvaneth, DoK).

This is all quite a genius move from the Kirby administration, that was however so cynically and badly managed that blew on their hand. Roundtree’s Golden era for both GW and customers is simply adding good execution and clever price management, plus better consideration of the customer.

[SeanMaguire1991]

I'd like to see a Slaves to Darkness battletome just so we can update the Grand Alliance Chaos Warscrolls, Daemon Princes are unplayable in AoS which sucks as they are great in 40k (at least I think they are).

[Rogue Explorator]

I really do not think all the current minifactions need to ever be merged or further developed, many of them represent by now neat small background elements that just do not warrant any further expansion. I think such factions have a great place in AoS as allies and part of GA armies, especially those really small Order factions that have by now been defined as compound parts of Free Cities.

For example, I really like the scourge privateers and their status as defining part of the Free Cities criminal underbelly, but as things stand, they are really self contained and can already serve a variety of narrative and hobby purposes.

As a Death player, I feel similarly about Deathmages (though I think they should have gotten the Corpse Cart), they show that old world style Nekromancers are still around as a minor force. But I'd rather see a few new styles of Necromancy in the future, with most Death faction to see release boasting their own mages and, if Death gets an expansion with mortals, those not bound to the wasted away and tattered styling of the World-that-was, where every Necromancer was a solitary outcast, rather than have Deathmages expanded or completely folded back into a larger faction.

[meet.the.doctor]

44 minutes ago, Turgol said:

You guys are missing the point. You are seeing faction building as an optimization process from the point of view of players with big collections. AoS was born to sell more kits, because WHFB was so consolidated that the cycle of selling kits was reduced to selling new army book and couple of kits to people with large collection focused on one or another army. 

AoS (and new 40k) are meant to stop this from happening: have and create so much material that you are not trapped into the new edition, new army book, couple kits cycle. The idea is to nudge people not to only have a couple of armies and wait for next edition update, but keep experimenting with new factions, alliances, etc.

Small factions fulfil two roles: keep the illusion that almost all old models have a place and a future in AoS, and keep some room for low cost clever experimentation (FEC, BCR, Bonesplitterz) or salvaging into a really new faction (Sylvaneth, DoK).

This is all quite a genius move from the Kirby administration, that was however so cynically and badly managed that blew on their hand. Roundtree’s Golden era for both GW and customers is simply adding good execution and clever price management, plus better consideration of the customer.

Kirby’s administration wasn’t bad - I think it was supposed to drop the value of GW stocks. Then it was best business to buy shitloads of them change management and harvest now. I am sure it was not a coincidence  

[Sennyo]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/28/next-weeks-pre-orders-death-coming-good-way/

also it look like the skullvane manor back aswell

Edited January 28, 2018 by Sennyo
did not want to double comment

[shinros]

I am pretty hyped for the lore in legions of nagash. 

[Charles]

Anyone know how much the Warscryer Citadel will be? 

If not does anyone remember what the Skullvane Manse used to retail for? 

[Moonstone]

42 minutes ago, Charles said:

Anyone know how much the Warscryer Citadel will be? 

If not does anyone remember what the Skullvane Manse used to retail for? 

Skullvane Manse was £50 I believe.

Glad its coming back, quite tempted to pick one up for myself.

 

 

[Charles]

Wow I was willing to pay around £100 for it that would be a steal 

[AGPO]

I'm keen on them continuing to try different things, which they certainly seen to be doing with Malign Portents and LoN. Done of it might not work but that's innovation for you and it's better than the game becoming stagnant.

Re. big or small factions, it comes down to wanting to sell more kits and reduce limitations on players. Take the Storm Raven kit. In 40k the decision to let every Imperium or Chaos faction ally freely was to reduce the barriers to entry for players who wanted the shiny new thing but didn't want to start a new army. There's no need to do this for AOS since grand alliances already cover these cases. 

Likewise faction bonuses are there to encourage themed armies rather than grand alliances becoming the default. From this perspective it's arguably better to keep small factions like ordo draconis separate, because it helps keep them in the game whilst still letting AOS build it's own setting. Otherwise you have an old world army just plonked firm opposite say Karadrons as if nothing has changed. 

[HorticulusTGA]

So, the price : 

From our friend @zamerion on Dakkadakka (coming from Warfo aka French forum I guess) : 

- The 4 Harbingers de 25€ (each)
- Dice et Combat Gauge "Malign Portents" (15€ and 8€) 
- Warscryer (the Manse) for 85€ 
- Malign Portents Campaign Book 20€ - so great !
- Battletome Legions of Nagash (25€) 

And : 

- 2 new Start Collecting the 24th Feb; : Kharadrons and Stormcasts Vanguard

[Rogue Explorator]

3 hours ago, HorticulusTGA said:

So, the price : 

From our friend @zamerion on Dakkadakka (coming from Warfo aka French forum I guess) : 

- The 4 Harbingers de 25€ (each)
- Dice et Combat Gauge "Malign Portents" (15€ and 8€) 
- Warscryer (the Manse) for 85€ 
- Malign Portents Campaign Book 20€ - so great !
- Battletome Legions of Nagash (25€) 

And : 

- 2 new Start Collecting the 24th Feb; : Kharadrons and Stormcasts Vanguard

The prices on the books are great news. I feared Malign Portents in particular would cost much more.

 

If GW sticks to their current pace (likely, with the production issues apparently sorted), we might see DoK very soon and they are propably a two week release at max. Add the Necron and Knight minireleases, as well as Shadespire and Nekromunda and we still have unknowns starting mid to late march.

[sandlemad]

The start collecting boxes for Vanguard and Kharadron look like pretty good deals. Kind of hard to estimate the SC vanguard  once because it divided by sprue rather than box but they both are solid in terms of cost, if perhaps not in useful contents for KO.

 

SC Vanguard

- Lord Aquilor

- 3 Palladors

- 5 Hunters

- 3 gryph hounds

 

Kharadon Overlords

- Endrinmaster

- 5 Thunderers

- 3 skywardens / endrinriggers

- Gunhauler

[DantePQ]

Ok but when can we expect DoK to arrive ? I hope it's 3rd of March (AoS day). 

[GeneralZero]

10 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Kharadon Overlords

- Endrinmaster

- 5 Thunderers

- 3 skywardens / endrinriggers

- Gunhauler

as long as GW doesn't change some rules/points about the Gunhauler, they won't sell it. It is soooooo useless actualy. 

so, I'm doubtful about the choice of content of this SC kharadon

[Mortarch]

14 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

The start collecting boxes for Vanguard and Kharadron look like pretty good deals. Kind of hard to estimate the SC vanguard  once because it divided by sprue rather than box but they both are solid in terms of cost, if perhaps not in useful contents for KO.

 

SC Vanguard

- Lord Aquilor

- 3 Palladors

- 5 Hunters

- 3 gryph hounds

 

Kharadon Overlords

- Endrinmaster

- 5 Thunderers

- 3 skywardens / endrinriggers

- Gunhauler

What's the source on these? ... Was there a picture released?

[DantePQ]

Yep 

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by DantePQ

[AdamR]

34 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

The start collecting boxes for Vanguard and Kharadron look like pretty good deals. Kind of hard to estimate the SC vanguard  once because it divided by sprue rather than box but they both are solid in terms of cost, if perhaps not in useful contents for KO.

 

SC Vanguard

- Lord Aquilor

- 3 Palladors

- 5 Hunters

- 3 gryph hounds

 

Kharadon Overlords

- Endrinmaster

- 5 Thunderers

- 3 skywardens / endrinriggers

- Gunhauler

That KO start collecting looks awesome value!

[Soulsmith]

Can anyone do a rough conversion into £ of those prices? 

[bsharitt]

While the Gunhauler isn't a great unit in the game(at least not for the point cost), no real surprise to see it included in the start collecting. I don't think they would have included the frigate, unless it wasn't selling well due to price as the Magmadroth for fyreslayers was reported to be be selling poorly. So it's probably at least a good sign that the KOs are selling well that they didn't feel the need to make the SC a Frigate with free stuff.

I do find the troop choices a bit more surprising though. I really expected an Arkanaut Company(specifically in the box, I would have guessed a hero, arkanauts, and the gunhauler) since most of the start collecting boxes have contain a core troop choice for the army they're for. Not that two specialty troops are a bad thing, and it does make the box a better dollar for dollar value. If you need thunderers and endrinriggers, it's basically getting a cheaper endrinmaster and the gunhauler for free, which might mitigate it's relative uselessness on the tabletop(but still a nice model). I big part of it may be that they're trying to keep  new start collecting boxes at at least 500 points, though I still would have preferred arkanauts and endrinriggers if that were the case. A slightly more business related reason might be that they're trying to discourage just buying multiple start collecting boxes to build and army, and truly only have it as a starting point.

On the heroes I figured it would have been a toss up between the Admiral or the Endrinmaster as they're a bit more general in usage compared the the navigator and khemist, though I would have hedged my bet a little closer to the admiral because he's the most straight forward, but the endrinmaster makes sense as he may encourage ship based army construction.

On the whole it's not a bad box. I'd definitively recommend it to a new KO player. At some point you'd probably like to have at least one each unit and the endrinmaster and you're getting a discount on even just those free and even the gunhauler isn't that great on the tabletop, you're getting it for free and it's still a great model(of course I have that opinion about the entire KO line). Not sure if I'll buy one to expand my KO force though. I need more endrinriggers, and I want to pick up the endrinmaster eventually, I don't know about the rest of it. I've already got a gunhauler, and if you can't tell from the rest of my post, I'm not a fan, so I probably don't need another.  I like the thunderers well enough and even after their GHB2017 changes, they still have a use(especially if you didn't buy a dozen boxes to give everyone the same special weapons), but I think that use can be handled by the one unit I have. It's a good starting box, but it's just that, a starting box. I don't think this will be a box people keep buy to expand their existing armies like some of the SCs(and I suspect that's on purpose).