AoS 2 - Wanderers Discussion

[Charlo]

Fair enough, but personally I'm not sure what Wanderers could get that would be too different from Sylvaneth at this point. Wardancers achetype feels covered by the revenants and outside of Eagles there isn't a lot out there.

[gronnelg]

Hey guys. Wandereres is one the armies that interest for as a second army at some point in the future. I've heard they are pretty weak  though. So how bad is it? Can you guys win any games at all? Are there any good match ups for you? Approximatly what kind of winrate are we talking about?

[overtninja]

50 minutes ago, gronnelg said:

Hey guys. Wandereres is one the armies that interest for as a second army at some point in the future. I've heard they are pretty weak  though. So how bad is it? Can you guys win any games at all? Are there any good match ups for you? Approximatly what kind of winrate are we talking about?

Wanderers have very strong ranged options, but don't let yourself be tricked into going too heavy with ranged, because doing so means you only do real damage on your own turn and you won't be able to participate in melee well, which is the primary way to do damage outside of magic (Wanderers don't have much of that, really) in the game.

That said, our ranged models are great at what they do - SotW are very, very good as long as they don't move, and they hose Chaos armies. GG do serious damage once a game with -3 rend, and then generally help hold objectives and chip off wounds on things before they reach you. All our heroes shoot to some capacity except the Spellweaver, and some have special shooting. You end up being able to weaken most scary things or eliminate something real bad before it gets to you. You also have the option of sniping out characters, as our heroes and other such hit on 2s or 3s at range.

For melee, Wanderers have few options. EG make a great bunker and are dirt cheap, but they are basically a mobile fence - you won't see them doing damage in combat, but they can live forever in the right circumstances. WWR are absolutely fantastic, and they mulch even the toughest monsters, but they are paper fragile so you need to get the charge off or have a big group of them.

We have two cavalry options, both are rather espensive. SotT have a great signature spell, but they are stupid expensive for what they do and there aren't many things in a Wanderers army that wants to be up close so they generally aren't taken. WR are good on the charge, and not very good otherwise. They are great at securing objectives late-game, since they have a huge movement.

Wanderer heroes have a bunch of command abilities that are pretty strong. You'll want a Nomad Prince to spam their bubble of Reroll 1s to hit every turn, and they are actually pretty good in melee. At their points cost they are always worth it. Waywatchers are incredible snipers and enemy hero bullies. Spellweavers get a free auto-dispel and can bring back 1d3 models with their signature spell, which is pretty nice, especially on our cavalry. The other heroes are less potent, but they all have something cool they offer. I like to bring one of each hero in big games, but I generally go with the NP, the SW, and a WW as default.
 

Wanderer magical items are generally nothing impressive, though there are a few, like the Wending Wand, the Starcaster Longbow, and the Viridescent Shawl that show up in many lists.

We currently have 1 super-battalion that's basically a default army list that gives you some nice bonuses; primarily, it allows you to deploy nothing before the game starts and set up everyone on any table edge on your first turn. This can be foiled just like other null deploys, but it's still a great way to catch opponents off guard or generally mess with their strategy. Our allegiance abilities amount to rerolling leadership, allowing our ranged units to retreat and shoot, and teleporting single units around the board edge, which is great with SotW since they don't count as having moved if you teleport them, making a 10-man unit extremely good back-line bullies. Wanderers have a command ability that lets you place a unit that teleports in this way on any board edge, which means nowhere is safe for your opponents. Also an option is to teleport a big block of WWR to the backfield of your opponents, so they can force opponents to fall back to protect their own objectives, or otherwise deal with the very real threat.

What the army lacks is, well, all the trimmings - a unique spell lore, unique terrain models, more potent allegiance abilities, and big centerpiece models (the whole army is basically on foot except for two mounted units) which define an AoS army. Also, without a points reduction on the SotT (they're at 220), you're left without much magic at all to play with, which limits your options significantly. It knocks the faction down a peg or two in terms of overall potency, but the model range has options for most aspects of the game and is pretty fun to play, and holds it's own against most other things, though everything feels rather fragile because of the shooting focus on the army - if you can't do damage at range, or your opponent gets an ill-timed double turn on you, things can go bad really fast.

With all that said, the army does look really nice, especially given the age of some of the models (they aren't up to the modern CAD-designed model ranges, but they are still really nice imo), and they provide a range-and-focused-assault skirmishing strategy that can be vary rewarding if you are the sort who likes that kind of thing.

edit - My regular opponents play Chaos armies, and so my SotW bully them into the center of the earth. I also run a block of 20 WWR because my opponents love Greater Demons, and I've found that a solid melee core makes a huge difference, even if they are expensive to field in bulk. Also, they look like absolute Chads with their huge weapons and optional come-at-me-bro postures.

I'd say I win more than I lose, even at the tournaments I've run them in, because I'm very used to the way they play (I played Wood Elves in WH8e, which is why I have them in the first place), and they are a very unexpected faction to face. That said, you basically can't contest a magic-focused list, and you've got nothing durable in melee, so you can't grind against anything at all. I've found that allying in Dryads or Kurnoth have really helped out for melee durability.

I should also say that I've since bought up a large Sylvaneth army (I had a bunch from playing WE anyway) and mostly focus on them, but when the GHB2k19 comes out, I'll definitely be trotting out my shooty boys for more fun.

Edited May 2, 2019 by overtninja
additional text

[The Red King]

I have to disagree with the glowing assessment above. While every positive you listed is true, none of them are quite as true when compared to updated armies.

 

"Great shooting" at 18" when everything in the game seems to move 12 and reroll charges or run and charge etc. Means you're often either very limited in unit placement or else sacrificing a unit a turn just to get the enemy close enough to shoot.

 

The army can't really skirmish being stuck with only one teleport a turn that is strictly worse than the teleports of say khinerai or deep strike of stormcast. And further if you teleport your archers they are going to lose the leader buffs that they sorely need as the entire army lacks in dmg output through anything but a thousand cuts style kills. Now that's a fine style if everything weren't over costed or under statted in comparison to the opponent.

 

By focusing your entire army worth of shooting on one target you CAN output quite a bit of damage (if standing still and buffed by heroes) but every trade made is just woefully points inefficient in comparison to what you're "hopefully" taking out.

 

I agree the army is beautiful. I agree it can win games, but I think its disingenuous to give them anything more than a 40% chance of winning against any moderately well built or piloted newer army and as much as I encourage people to buy and play wanderers if they like them, I think it's only fair to add "buyer beware" if they're going to be disheartened by losing as this is an expensive hobby. 

 

I personally get around this by aiming for moral victories. Pick something you want to accomplish for the game and feel like a winner in your head.

 

No I'm not bitter that I showed up to a casual night of AoS only to face the exact FEC list that won the most recent tournament and proceeded to feel bad for wasting my opponents time.

 

The army CAN win if piloted perfectly and the mission favors you and your opponent makes a few mistakes. The army is also competitively speaking, frankly a joke.

 

Edited to add that I DO love this army and they ARE beautiful models. Lest anyone think I'm being too down on them.

Edited May 2, 2019 by The Red King
Positivity

[Televiper11]

Don't Wanderers hold close to a 50% win tournament win percentage?

Can't remember where I saw that but I pretty sure I saw that somewhere.

[awcamawn]

17 hours ago, Charlo said:

Fair enough, but personally I'm not sure what Wanderers could get that would be too different from Sylvaneth at this point. Wardancers achetype feels covered by the revenants and outside of Eagles there isn't a lot out there.

Hmm, I had never really considered Revenants much like Wardancers myself. They're both light infantry with a decent punch, but Revenants aren't as quick as Wardancers. Model-wise the Revenants always struck me as pretty stiffly posed, both feet firmly placed on the ground, and quite unlike the fluid motion of a Wardancer. I imagine new plastic Wardancers could be more like Witch Aelves but 6 years newer and in even more dynamic and crazy poses a la Harlequins (or a bit like the fluid motion in the recent Namarti Reavers).

17 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

I ope not as it would reduce the chances of wanderers getting new and unique stuff, rather they stay separate.

For me it's: Wanderers Battletome>Combined w/Sylvaneth Battletome>Aelf Battletome>Free Cities Battletome, but I do agree. I am hopeful we will get a book of some sort within 18 months though. Fingers crossed.

17 hours ago, gronnelg said:

Hey guys. Wandereres is one the armies that interest for as a second army at some point in the future. I've heard they are pretty weak  though. So how bad is it? Can you guys win any games at all? Are there any good match ups for you? Approximatly what kind of winrate are we talking about?

I think it largely depends on the context of how you play. I think @overtninja and @The Red King did a good job going over the army's strengths and weaknesses. For myself, I would not describe them as pretty weak as far as playing in fairly casual play at both my local GW and FLGS. I would say that I win at least half of the time, but I don't play against tournament lists very often. I see a lot of play against KO and Slaves to Darkness, where I tend to do quite well, and looking through my AoS journal that I recently picked up I'm 3-3 against more recent battletome armies since I started tracking. One of those losses was a team game of Wanderers & KO vs Sacrosanct SCE & Gloomspite, and we only barely lost off some cheeky deepstriking goblins just barely edging us out for numbers on an objective. Just the other week I faced off against Idoneth Deepkin for the first time and was able to take down an eel-heavy list with the turtle and King Volturnos.

Wanderers do have a bit of a learning curve, with all our units being quite fragile mistakes are easily punished and a good deal of finesse is required; positioning is everything. We do have some key things though that keep us within a modicum of competitiveness imho: decent mobility with Realm Wanderers, and quite efficiently priced chaff in the Eternal Guard. Mobility and good use of chaff will keep you in games.

15 hours ago, The Red King said:

No I'm not bitter that I showed up to a casual night of AoS only to face the exact FEC list that won the most recent tournament and proceeded to feel bad for wasting my opponents time.

Ouch! I think most people understand that bringing a cutting -edge smash-face FEC list to casual AoS is a bit of an eye roll at the very least. I'd say it was your opponent that was wasting both of y'all's time, if anyone was. Also, I'm not sure that match up is much of an indication of Wanderers' competitiveness as my understanding is that FEC list has been absolutely crushing pretty much everything recently. A local tournament player has just sworn them off as 'boring' as he's won the past several tournaments with them, and is moving on to other armies as a matter of being a good sport because it's just that broken.

[Turin Turambar]

@awcamawn

for me i would rather have wanderers in combined aelf tome but i always have disliked the treemen, and i feel i could get a better looking army with other aelves (plus it gives more conversion material)

 

On 5/2/2019 at 8:09 PM, Charlo said:

Fair enough, but personally I'm not sure what Wanderers could get that would be too different from Sylvaneth at this point. Wardancers achetype feels covered by the revenants and outside of Eagles there isn't a lot out there.

war eagles, war eagle riders (bow, lance and magic), war hawks, war hawk riders (bow, lance and magic), deer mounted arhcers[wild riders with bows] (they are nomads after all), new/updated stuff like Forrest dragons of various sizes and shapes (smaller monstrous cavalry and larger full on monsters), completely new stuff like wanderer wagons or war beasts. GW's imagination is the limit.

also even if war dancers=revenants (which is debatable) it would sinergize differently with wanderers differenlty if wanderers got their own stuff.

[Rusty293]

I always figured they'd really put emphasis on the Wild Hunt aspect of the Wood Elves if Wanderers are redone. Kind of like they took the Slayer theme of the Dwarfs and dialled it up to 11 for the Fyreslayers.  Perhaps see Kurnoth (Orion) come back as the leader of the faction etc...

Edited May 4, 2019 by Rusty293
Additional information

[Turin Turambar]

4 minutes ago, Rusty293 said:

I always figured they'd really put emphasis on the Wild Hunt aspect of the Wood Elves if Wanderers are redone. Kind of like they took the Slayer theme of the Dwarfs and dialled it up to 11 for the Fyreslayers.  Perhaps see Kurnoth (Orion) come back as the leader of the faction etc...

the romantic in me still hopes Kurnoth turns out to be the sylvanneth interpretation of Tyrion

[Ggom]

My original plan for starting AoS was to go into Wanderers, though I ended up picking up DoK because I didnt like glade guard models and loved witch aelves. That being said, the new direction they are taking with sylvaneth does make it feel like there’s less and less room for classic wood aelves. I really hope I’m wrong and Wanderers get fleshed out down the road. 

[Aezeal]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:50 AM, Turin Turambar said:

the romantic in me still hopes Kurnoth turns out to be the sylvanneth interpretation of Tyrion

Then he left them out to hang right

[Aezeal]

On 5/4/2019 at 11:45 AM, Rusty293 said:

I always figured they'd really put emphasis on the Wild Hunt aspect of the Wood Elves if Wanderers are redone. Kind of like they took the Slayer theme of the Dwarfs and dialled it up to 11 for the Fyreslayers.  Perhaps see Kurnoth (Orion) come back as the leader of the faction etc...

If they'd wanted that they could've done that in the GHB lore... and they didn't. I doubt they'll be doing this but I hope the same.

[Dassarri]

Anyone else used any Deepkin as allies for our wanderers? I've had some fun with the aspect of the storm lately. He also fills the niche of a centerpiece model that we lack.

[Kramig]

By now I did 3 matches:

1) Vs seraphon: I lost for objectives, but he killed only 4 of my models, while I destroyed many units of his

2) vs skaven: no possibility of win

3) Vs stormcast: win for objectives, but almost my unites destroyed 

 

In both 1 and 3 matches I had very much fun; wanderers are not easy to play but very challenging 

I am trying vanguard raptors and palladors as alley, by now I'm pretty satisfied

[martinwolf]

I have absolutely no idea how you do it. I would love to learn mor about general tactics, formation, deployment layout, and all those things. I either kill a couple of enemy dudes, but lose massively on victory points. Or I get a few victory points but get pretty much all my stuff killed before the fifth battleround. I have to say I'm mostly playing around 1k to 1.25k matches and can't use the battalion.

But I don't know, I made around 20 matches or more and won one of them. And the rest are mostly not even close. I'm under a year new to playing AoS, but I feel like I can't be THAT bad, but maybe I just am?

I wish there were any battle reports (video) with Wanderers, so I could learn from better players.

[awcamawn]

@martinwolf What kind of list are you using? What factions do you see play against most often locally? What battleplans have you played? Are your opponents using highly optimized tournament lists? 

I always forget to take pictures mid game myself, keep meaning to make some sort of battle report.

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

On 5/2/2019 at 3:42 PM, Televiper11 said:

Don't Wanderers hold close to a 50% win tournament win percentage?

Can't remember where I saw that but I pretty sure I saw that somewhere.

Close to 48%, but we are speaking out of 12 matches out of more than eight thousand, so the data is not enough to draw any conclusion on their viability.

 

10 hours ago, martinwolf said:

I have absolutely no idea how you do it. I would love to learn mor about general tactics, formation, deployment layout, and all those things. I either kill a couple of enemy dudes, but lose massively on victory points. Or I get a few victory points but get pretty much all my stuff killed before the fifth battleround. I have to say I'm mostly playing around 1k to 1.25k matches and can't use the battalion.

But I don't know, I made around 20 matches or more and won one of them. And the rest are mostly not even close. I'm under a year new to playing AoS, but I feel like I can't be THAT bad, but maybe I just am?

I wish there were any battle reports (video) with Wanderers, so I could learn from better players.

I don't mean any disrespect, but you are probably that bad. Wanderers is probably a very bad army for players who start out, like Kharadrons, because even if at the hands of veteran players they can be somewhat decent, at the hands of a new player it is a terrible starting choice from a competitive standing point, since it will be very discouraging and nothing will be intuitive. I know a KO player who is terrible at the game, and has won maybe 1-2 games after a few years. His errors are normally that he doesn't prioritize well targets, he doesn't know how to screen properly his units (and sacrifice some for the better good), and he doesn't try to play with his range in mind (refusing flank, flipping the table from movements to transform it into a battle in short borders, etc).

You should think turns in advance with every army, but for shooting it is imperative for you to do it.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

For example at 2000 points this is what i had been playing. An MSU for the most part.

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff

Battleline
30 x Glade Guard (360)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)

Units
5 x Wild Riders (120)
5 x Wild Riders (120)

Battalions
Waystone Pathfinders (200)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145
 

First, why an MSU ?  Shooting armies can't compete with melee combat in damage output, so you have to mitigate the damage forcing melee armies to overkill units. Your advantadge is that you can choose what you kill, so you have to make a list that can fullfill that while forces your opponent into inefficient trades. Eternal guard are great  as chaff units because they are cheap, and as 10 man units they can cover a lot of ground. That way you have more turns of shooting to turn the tide. The 30 man block is mostly to abuse the redeployment, you can break it down. Waystone pathfinders is a great battallion that allows you to get 70 extra glade guard shots and 3 waywatchers. That's normally enough to kill something big such as mr crunchy from FEC, etc, so you can kill 2 a turn. Wild riders can score or you can use them as chaff. They are not efficient point wise to be used as sacrificial lambs, but their mobility make for great speedbumps.

Most times my first turn is teleport the 30 man to an edge, move all my army to that side, use the wild riders as speedbumps, and kill priority targets in that side.  The shackles also help since they can give you a precious turn of time.

 

A different approach i had been taking too is to not use the battallion and get some melee support.

 

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Waywatcher (120)

Battleline
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)

Units
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
 

This is more simple and more "castle up" approach. I have 50 disposable EG, that i can deploy in onion layers so my opponent doesn't get to kill more than 2 of those units per turn, and i can also use the Wildwood rangers as deterrence being behind the EG to force the opponent to be at 3" of them (it only works if your opponent doesn't have the range to attack them, FEC terrorgheists for example will outright kill'em) or just as countercharge units (they are amazing vs monsters, and regular against everything else). And i have 4 waywatchers and 30 SotW to kill off priority targets. Shackles again to help you refusing flanks.

There are some deployments that are better than others, in my opinion deployments not being as varied as 40k hurts shooty armies the most, and obviously armies such as sylvaneth that can easilly block your LoS you will be dead on arrival, but against most monster smash lists you pretty much wreck them, the knot is amazing to clear big priority targets in melee such as FEC terrorgheists.

A common mistake with EG is to try to get their modifiers going all the time. They are dirty cheap, if you can get the modifier while you are in a good spot scoring points, do it, but otherwise don't bother with it. Their damage output is terrible regardless, and without rerolls to armor saves (which require a hefty amount of points) they are not durable anyways, use them to cover ground, to deny deep strikes and to force your opponent to be inefficient at killing stuff while they stay where you want them to be.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[The Red King]

26 minutes ago, Kairos Tejedestinos said:

For example at 2000 points this is what i had been playing. An MSU for the most part.

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff

Battleline
30 x Glade Guard (360)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Glade Guard (120)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)

Units
5 x Wild Riders (120)
5 x Wild Riders (120)

Battalions
Waystone Pathfinders (200)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 145
 

First, why an MSU ?  Shooting armies can't compete with melee combat in damage output, so you have to mitigate the damage forcing melee armies to overkill units. Your advantadge is that you can choose what you kill, so you have to make a list that can fullfill that while forces your opponent into inefficient trades. Eternal guard are great  as chaff units because they are cheap, and as 10 man units they can cover a lot of ground. That way you have more turns of shooting to turn the tide. The 30 man block is mostly to abuse the redeployment, you can break it down. Waystone pathfinders is a great battallion that allows you to get 70 extra glade guard shots and 3 waywatchers. That's normally enough to kill something big such as mr crunchy from FEC, etc, so you can kill 2 a turn. Wild riders can score or you can use them as chaff. They are not efficient point wise to be used as sacrificial lambs, but their mobility make for great speedbumps.

Most times my first turn is teleport the 30 man to an edge, move all my army to that side, use the wild riders as speedbumps, and kill priority targets in that side.  The shackles also help since they can give you a precious turn of time.

 

A different approach i had been taking too is to not use the battallion and get some melee support.

 

Allegiance: Wanderers

Leaders
Nomad Prince (80)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Waywatcher (120)
Spellweaver (100)
- Heartwood Staff
Waywatcher (120)

Battleline
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)
10 x Eternal Guard (70)

Units
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Wildwood Rangers (140)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)
10 x Sisters of the Watch (180)

Endless Spells
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
 

This is more simple and more "castle up" approach. I have 50 disposable EG, that i can deploy in onion layers so my opponent doesn't get to kill more than 2 of those units per turn, and i can also use the Wildwood rangers as deterrence being behind the EG to force the opponent to be at 3" of them (it only works if your opponent doesn't have the range to attack them, FEC terrorgheists for example will outright kill'em) or just as countercharge units (they are amazing vs monsters, and regular against everything else). And i have 4 waywatchers and 30 SotW to kill off priority targets. Shackles again to help you refusing flanks.

There are some deployments that are better than others, in my opinion deployments not being as varied as 40k hurts shooty armies the most, and obviously armies such as sylvaneth that can easilly block your LoS you will be dead on arrival, but against most monster smash lists you pretty much wreck them, the knot is amazing to clear big priority targets in melee such as FEC terrorgheists.

A common mistake with EG is to try to get their modifiers going all the time. They are dirty cheap, if you can get the modifier while you are in a good spot scoring points, do it, but otherwise don't bother with it. Their damage output is terrible regardless, and without rerolls to armor saves (which require a hefty amount of points) they are not durable anyways, use them to cover ground, to deny deep strikes and to force your opponent to be inefficient at killing stuff while they stay where you want them to be.

Ummm unless i'm misreading your list it isnt legal. The battalion requires EXACTLY 4 units. No more no less. So you specifically cant MSU in the battalion.

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

You take the battallion, and then other units. It Doesn't stop you from taking more units if they are not inside the battallion. You don't need the EG in the battallion anyways, except if you one to one drop, which isn't that good for this kind of army.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Kairos Tejedestinos

[Kramig]

On 5/8/2019 at 7:24 AM, martinwolf said:

I have absolutely no idea how you do it. I would love to learn mor about general tactics, formation, deployment layout, and all those things. I either kill a couple of enemy dudes, but lose massively on victory points. Or I get a few victory points but get pretty much all my stuff killed before the fifth battleround. I have to say I'm mostly playing around 1k to 1.25k matches and can't use the battalion.

But I don't know, I made around 20 matches or more and won one of them. And the rest are mostly not even close. I'm under a year new to playing AoS, but I feel like I can't be THAT bad, but maybe I just am?

I wish there were any battle reports (video) with Wanderers, so I could learn from better players.

IMHO wanderers must be played only at 2000 pts, because their units are too expensive for lower formats. 

Also you have to try everything and then focus on what seemed to you better. You have to think to blocking opponent's units, how to make objectives, sacrifice units, and so on. It is a very hard game, but very satisfying if you success in. 

It is not only "destroy enemy", every move could make the difference 

I like very much nomad prince with glade guard and sisters of the watch. Reroll 1 to hit is very huge with 30 glade guard or 20 sisters. I play one with each of these units. 

Also, we are a "one per game" army: think to spell weaver and Wayfinder... It is very important to choose the right moment for their "one per game" abilities

[The Red King]

On 5/8/2019 at 11:49 AM, Kairos Tejedestinos said:

You take the battallion, and then other units. It Doesn't stop you from taking more units if they are not inside the battallion. You don't need the EG in the battallion anyways, except if you one to one drop, which isn't that good for this kind of army.

DOH!

 

I was caught up with the wording of the Sylvaneth battalions that specifically say you CAN take other units in that batallion and the fact that the Azyr app tells you its invalid if you add more. Im a numpty.

[Kramig]

The sylvaneth says that this units belong to the battalion, but you can take units outside of the battalion

[The Red King]

No yeah I get what you're saying. DoK that I also play is an obvious example that not everything has to be in the batallion. Just Azyr the list building app threw me because it calls that invalid.

 

No it doesn't. It must have been something else making invalid.

Edited May 10, 2019 by The Red King
I'm dumb.

[Thiagoma]

Azyr can be kinda wonky. If you make an Order Draconis army for example, you are unable to add any trait to the general.  

 

They all result in "invalid".