pixieproxy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Man I'm so excited! Finally catacombs is coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Ggom said: These new khainite shadowstalkers are a mixed bag I think. I love the variations with the witch aelf and Sister of Slaghter, as well as several of the male sculpts! I’m not so keen on the frowning dude with the wobbley cloak thing, or the faceless boss lady. Might pick them up, but will plan to swap her head out if I do... I'm with you. I won't be investing in the whole warband, but the leader is a head swap away from being a new hag/dark elf sorceress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milano Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Hi everyone, I've been for 2y in the hobby and now is my time to join the team and start a new DoK army! Some questions still trouble me, so it would be great if you could help me out? I've read the last third of the thread so far and checked several beginner guides and batraps on how to handle a (hopefully) successfull start with the sinister ladies. My main conclusions are: - Big blocks of witch elves/sisters of slaughter - Morathi is quite good - Fast glass cannon army, with some deepstrinking units - Cauldrons are our friends and a good choice to keep important buffers alive (slaughter qeen, hag queen) Questions: - Am I wrong with my conlusions? - Is it a good moment to start, or should I rather wait due to all that new stuff is coming out? (Morathi campaign book, Shadow & Pain box..) - Is Morathi useable as a caster, or should I use my first turn (after casting Mindrazor) to immediately transform her into her "big" form? - Are snake units just nice as MSU or would a pure snake army perform as well? I heard that the shooting version doesnt soak in buffs that well - What about competitive play? Are DoK on a level with other mid-tier armies? And is Hag Narr the only temple for competitive play. Im aware, that the battletome is very 2.0 vanilla and some aspects depend on my local meta (like shooting, or new magic-heavy armies) - Any hints on how to collect a 2k force without spending a trillion € 😀? Ok that was an avalanche of questions. Thank to anybody still trying to answer some of them! Cheers! Milano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 44 minutes ago, Milano said: Hi everyone, I've been for 2y in the hobby and now is my time to join the team and start a new DoK army! Some questions still trouble me, so it would be great if you could help me out? I've read the last third of the thread so far and checked several beginner guides and batraps on how to handle a (hopefully) successfull start with the sinister ladies. My main conclusions are: - Big blocks of witch elves/sisters of slaughter - Morathi is quite good - Fast glass cannon army, with some deepstrinking units - Cauldrons are our friends and a good choice to keep important buffers alive (slaughter qeen, hag queen) Questions: - Am I wrong with my conlusions? - Is it a good moment to start, or should I rather wait due to all that new stuff is coming out? (Morathi campaign book, Shadow & Pain box..) - Is Morathi useable as a caster, or should I use my first turn (after casting Mindrazor) to immediately transform her into her "big" form? - Are snake units just nice as MSU or would a pure snake army perform as well? I heard that the shooting version doesnt soak in buffs that well - What about competitive play? Are DoK on a level with other mid-tier armies? And is Hag Narr the only temple for competitive play. Im aware, that the battletome is very 2.0 vanilla and some aspects depend on my local meta (like shooting, or new magic-heavy armies) - Any hints on how to collect a 2k force without spending a trillion € 😀? Ok that was an avalanche of questions. Thank to anybody still trying to answer some of them! Cheers! Milano Welcome. Your conclusions are pretty much right on, with the exception that while Daughters are advertised as a glass cannon, theyre actually one of the most resilient armies in the game, provided you buff properly. I want to preface the following with everything I'm about to say is subject to change with the upcoming morathi book and new melusai leader (and im sincerely hoping it does change a bit). It may be good to wait a couple weeks to see what this book will bring us. With that said, I dont think so much will change that observations from the past couple years wont hold relevance. Morathi is good but she has a learning curve associated with using her since she is 1/4 of your army that isnt pushing the offensive power that big witch/sisters of slaughter blocks do. Theres also nuance to using her. For example, her transform happens at the beginning of the hero phase, so you can't cast with her and then turn. Sometimes you'll want to turn her right away and other times you'll want to keep her small for a turn or two for the bonus casting. It all depends on the specific matchup and gametype. Daughters still do fine in competitive play. Its unfortunately still pretty monorail, and id argue against anything other than hagg nar if you're going for a list you can take to an event in which you dont know what your opponents will bring. Some people are trying khailebron lists to counteract the shooting. In my opinion, its a case of "do you want something that is always beneficial (5+ fanatical faith and reroll all hits turn 3 with hagg nar), or something that is sometimes beneficial (-1 to hit from shooting in khailebron)". Melee snakes can be used in larger blocks effectively too. Ive had a lot of success with a unit of 20. Our army doesn't put out many mortals, so this is your one reliable source of them. Also a good source for massed rend 2 if you need it with mindrazor. We were a very strong army choice for a few years due to the meta playstyle revolving around melee damage dealers. Our army outperformed many at this. But more playstyles are becoming relevant, and really fyreslayers took everything took everything we are good at and boosted it up. So we are still very strong, but not the dominant force of even a year ago. As for money saving, that's thr hardest part. The old allies box and Christmas battleforce box are no longer sold. They were great money savers, because those witches at 60 bucks for 10 models hurt. This new box may be a good way to build a snake army if you can part out extras of the hero and any khinerai you won't be using, but that only works if an all snake army becomes relevant. Other than that, buying from retailers that offer 20% off is your best bet, but you're still gonna be spending more on this army than most others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Warcry Catacombs will cost 160€ I am just leaving this here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ggom Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Warcry Catacombs will cost 160€ I am just leaving this here. What the actual f@@k. Thats just stupid pricing. EDIT - ok i see it comes with quite a bit of terrain and 2 rulebooks, so thats not an outrageous amount from that perspective. I do think they overvalue their rulebooks though, those get invalidated quickly. Honestly the only thing I like about GW is the quality of their plastic. The rest is overpriced in my mind. @Milano if you like snakes the Start Collecting seems like good savings, relatively speaking. You will want the Cauldron anyway, so you are basically getting half off the Melusai. Also factor in the FLGS discount and its pretty dollars to points efficient compared to trying to collect a block of witch aelves 😆 Theres basically no reason to buy a Cauldron of Blood kit by itself if you are also going Melusai. Personally I love the witch elf sculpts so I’m committed to getting at least a small block of them done. Edited October 20, 2020 by Ggom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 21 hours ago, Milano said: Hi everyone, I've been for 2y in the hobby and now is my time to join the team and start a new DoK army! Some questions still trouble me, so it would be great if you could help me out? I've read the last third of the thread so far and checked several beginner guides and batraps on how to handle a (hopefully) successfull start with the sinister ladies. My main conclusions are: - Big blocks of witch elves/sisters of slaughter - Morathi is quite good - Fast glass cannon army, with some deepstrinking units - Cauldrons are our friends and a good choice to keep important buffers alive (slaughter qeen, hag queen) Questions: - Am I wrong with my conlusions? - Is it a good moment to start, or should I rather wait due to all that new stuff is coming out? (Morathi campaign book, Shadow & Pain box..) - Is Morathi useable as a caster, or should I use my first turn (after casting Mindrazor) to immediately transform her into her "big" form? - Are snake units just nice as MSU or would a pure snake army perform as well? I heard that the shooting version doesnt soak in buffs that well - What about competitive play? Are DoK on a level with other mid-tier armies? And is Hag Narr the only temple for competitive play. Im aware, that the battletome is very 2.0 vanilla and some aspects depend on my local meta (like shooting, or new magic-heavy armies) - Any hints on how to collect a 2k force without spending a trillion € 😀? Ok that was an avalanche of questions. Thank to anybody still trying to answer some of them! Cheers! Milano I would like to add that money saving of GW Products is part of the fun for me. You can try to find second-hand models and buy them for a much cheaoper price. If you like Sisters of Slaughter and converting I really recommend The (40k) Drukhari Wyches. I also changed their Hands for the whips and Shield or daggers. This picture is just one part of the inspiration. Mine look different. You need a bit of green stuff for the necks though. I believe it is boring to have 30 witch elves and 30 sisters of slaugher on the field and they have the same dresses. Those Wyches also have a gladiator style to them. The money saving comes from the spare parts you get in a box of witch elves and the much cheaper Wyches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalassic Monstrosity Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I like it. What does everyone else think? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said: I like it. What does everyone else think? Itll purely depend on points for me. Heartrenders and allied shadow warriors do similar a similar job to this lot. These shadowstalkers can do it for multiple turns, but I dont see these being run anyway other than as a min unit, which won't last against any enemy attention. They don't have the immediate 6 inch move on a 4+ like the heartrenders to help outnumber on an objective the turn they come down, nor the immediate chip damage the heartrenders and shadow warriors offer when they arrive. Cool models though, so that may be justification enough for them to see some play if they aren't a bargain for points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I can see a unit being valuable depending on cost, being able to jump every turn is useful for keeping your opponent pinned to their objectives even in later rounds after your Khinerai or Shadow Warriors have dropped. Plus unlike Shadow Warriors they will take DoK buffs, which isn't saying too much given their stats aren't all that formidable, but it's not nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutton Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 These fellows are brilliant if they end up being 70 points like all of the other Warcry warbands. I'd even consider them up to 100 points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chumphammer Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I like them. Being able to teleport every turn (not having to use Khelibron) is huge for capping objs or even jumping in the way of of a bad charge. They have a lot of potential and they get the DOK buffs also when in a DOK army. Yeah they dont have the raw damage of witch aelves but being able to teleport behind a small unit capping an obj, then getting to charge in with 10 bodies with more attacks than Khinari throw out is pretty good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whispersofblood Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 These guys are an amazing screening unit, easily buffable to 4+/5+ at -1 to hit, and because they teleport they don't get in the way if you go first or the enemy doesn't charge. If you play a snake army this unit is going to be 1+. 17 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said: I like it. What does everyone else think? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Chumphammer said: I like them. Being able to teleport every turn (not having to use Khelibron) is huge for capping objs or even jumping in the way of of a bad charge. They have a lot of potential and they get the DOK buffs also when in a DOK army. Yeah they dont have the raw damage of witch aelves but being able to teleport behind a small unit capping an obj, then getting to charge in with 10 bodies with more attacks than Khinari throw out is pretty good 9 bodies in the box, I think, but your point stands. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 The NINE of AoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The sprue photos are up on the New Zealand website https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Warcry-Catacombs-EN-2020 Interestingly it appears that the DoK sprue has more than enough spears and perhaps blades for a full team; suggesting that there's some optional parts in the set! Edit - further looking and I think the extra spears are for the slaughtershade variation and at least one of the shadowblades. It also appears that the warlocks have two different repeaters and spell casting hands so they can swap bodies. Also the card confirms that two of the group are warlocks (males) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 All of the Warcry teams have a few optional bits/alternate model builds I believe, sometimes just so that you can vary the look of your fighters if you get two kits, sometimes to represent a different weapon load-out for a fighter, and you normally at least get a few spare throwing weapons to stick on model's belts if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Isle Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 So all D o K males that we know about are still slaves or warlocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lord of the Isle said: So all D o K males that we know about are still slaves or warlocks Interestingly the Battletome never mentions slaves within the DoK at all. Males are kept restricted and hobbled within society, both socially and by Morathi's influence weakening the typical male physical form. This suggests DoK breed fairly true within their own kind or that its likely some form of religious rite that all women undertake results in some influence to them which causes them to birth weaker males. But you don't get the impression that they are slaved, just second class citizens. It's almost a reversal of gender roles from the Victorian style era in the UK. Males likely can only hold certain jobs to a certain level, though I'd expect there are areas that they are allowed to excel at. In truth we don't really have a lot of fixed lore on the subject and even within the limited BL books we have little that talks about the actual cities of the DoK. Instead they tend to focus on covens and war which focuses on the women more so. It will be very interesting to read the new short stories coming out and see what they establish. So far we've Malaneth in the Gotrek stories who is cruel, but not mindlessly bloodthirsty (I mean except when it comes to potentially killing Gotrek so she hasn't got to run around after him...); we've got stories in the Heart of Winter which shows more of the fighting pit side of things, though that coven was also within a pirate stronghold so that might well have had influence on how it behaved. Then we've at least one story in Inferno which shows the DoK as a more mysterious force who are almost mindlessly enraged at fighting Chaos - though it also reminds us of how DoK will demand blood tithes from those they aid. So like the Ossiarchs they can be a cruel ally to take since the price might be paid in hearts and blood rather than gold. Though its not as strict an element with the DoK as it is with the Ossiarchs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirbeau Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Does anyone know of a guide to getting that turn one Mortathi transform & alpha-strike combo online? Googling just brings up total-war stuff. Want to make sure I properly get the wording etc. right so I can explain to my opponent pre-game and make sure she's surrounded by enough models etc in different situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Mirbeau said: Does anyone know of a guide to getting that turn one Mortathi transform & alpha-strike combo online? Googling just brings up total-war stuff. Want to make sure I properly get the wording etc. right so I can explain to my opponent pre-game and make sure she's surrounded by enough models etc in different situations. There are a couple ways to do it. Are you looking for the method requiring you to be in the khailebron temple, or the one that revolves around pushing her a few inches forward when she transforms due to unit placement and then using her base 14 movement to strike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirbeau Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Graywater said: There are a couple ways to do it. Are you looking for the method requiring you to be in the khailebron temple, or the one that revolves around pushing her a few inches forward when she transforms due to unit placement and then using her base 14 movement to strike? More the latter if poss (the bonus move through transformation and not having space to place her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 I dont know of a guide, but I can give you a brief rundown. The rule for her transformation says that you are supposed to put the transformed morathi right where little morathi was. However, the rule further says that if you can't place morathi in her previous location due to her base not fitting (since you can't place models/bases Overtop one another), or that she would be within 3 inches of an enemy model when she was not within that range before transforming, then you place her as close as possible to her original location that doesn't break one of those rules. You can manipulate this by placing models around little morathi very close to her, so that you leave no space for her to fit if she transforms. Then you want to make sure that the closest viable position for her to be placed is in a forward direction by not leaving enough space for her to placed behind her previous position. You can theoretically make this an infinite move if setup properly, though you'll want to stay under 14 inches, or you'll lose your ability to move in the movement phase. Youre typically only going to be getting a few inches with this tactic, but combining it with her 14 inch move will get her across the board turn 1 reliably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Hi all! after my first year and first army (SCE) in AoS I am starting to plan my second army and looking at DoK. For the moment I am just testing on TTS and waiting to see what November will bring before committing to purchases. I order to not having to rediscover the wheel I was wondering whether someone has already thought of taking a unit of Tempestors as allies. Their warscroll is bad and I am aware that allies are quite inefficient in DoK, but I am thinking that the -1 to hit from shooting bubble within 12" might be useful in the shooting meta (tm). Considering how DoK buffs already encourage to stick close to the centre of the army, this might easily cover all units. Tempestors might become priority target, but with 10w on a 3+ rr1 (and -1 to hit from shooting) they should force the opponent to commit enough firepower to leave the rest of the army untouched for at least one turn. Then again, it would mean 190 wasted points vs non shooting armies. So, do you think that there might be an interest in exploring this path? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Marcvs said: Hi all! after my first year and first army (SCE) in AoS I am starting to plan my second army and looking at DoK. For the moment I am just testing on TTS and waiting to see what November will bring before committing to purchases. I order to not having to rediscover the wheel I was wondering whether someone has already thought of taking a unit of Tempestors as allies. Their warscroll is bad and I am aware that allies are quite inefficient in DoK, but I am thinking that the -1 to hit from shooting bubble within 12" might be useful in the shooting meta (tm). Considering how DoK buffs already encourage to stick close to the centre of the army, this might easily cover all units. Tempestors might become priority target, but with 10w on a 3+ rr1 (and -1 to hit from shooting) they should force the opponent to commit enough firepower to leave the rest of the army untouched for at least one turn. Then again, it would mean 190 wasted points vs non shooting armies. So, do you think that there might be an interest in exploring this path? One of our temples offers an additional -1 vs ranged attacks. So go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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