AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Daughters of Khaine. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Daughters of Khaine in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (like me!). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here (please note that some of this is pre battletome) - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/10833-lets-chat-daughters-of-khaine/

There is also the following topic which is worth a read. This is a debate and discussion on the use of Sisters of Slaughters and Witch Aelves; their pros, cons, comparison and equipment - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18324-daughters-of-khaine-witches-and-sisters/

You can also read about the lore for the Daughters of Khaine in this topic - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18902-daughters-of-khaine-lore/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

[ClockworkGeo91]

Very excited for DoK in AOS 2 - yes our battalions aren't the greatest, but we have one of the most blendy battelines of all time. I current have about 1500pts of DOK and I'm looking to buy Morathi to push me to the 2k.

With Tzeench being hit hard, now is our time to become one of the most competitive armies.

For the Shadow Queen!

[AllanG123]

I'm also excited to see what happens in AoS2, the new spell lores and artefacts look promising. I'm personally thinking Aqshy for the two spells of +1 to wound and +1 damage and i'm excited to try the +4 movement and can fly artefact on a cauldron...... I am worried about purple sun and just deleting units even through all our defensive buffs but then again just through one right back at them.....very exciting times ahead

[Overread]

My two big wonders are when DoK will get their own Endless Spells (and what those spells will be) and if/when we'll get a proper getting started boxed set (or at least some means to discount our highly overpriced basic witch  troops). 

 

@Chris Tomlin Any chance this thread 

 could be added to the first post for reference? I figure its going to be a topic that comes up time and again for those new to daughters so I figure it will help to have it split off on its own so that its much easier to reference, read and add too.

[Chris Tomlin]

@Overread - I've linked to your topic within the first post and have included your title as a description. Thanks for the contribution, most appreciated.

[DJMoose]

Taking a look at the three new Nighthaunt characters that just came out, Hagg Nar is looking even more appetizing.  Those three characters can churn out a good amount of mortal wounds, so that boost to Fanatical Faith saves will be super helpful.  One of my gaming buds is all about the new Nighthaunt stuff, so I'm preparing myself to face them.

I think what I dislike most about fighting undead in general is how absolutely resilient they can be with healing wounds and getting units back.  Bravery 10 all around prevents us from using mindrazor shenanigans unless you are going to focus your spells and artifacts to do that exclusively.  Mortal wounds are an excellent way to get around Nighthaunt immunity to rend, so units with shields or with Martyr's Sacrifice could definitely help the mortal wound output.  I've been considering allying in a Sorceress not only for extra spell potential, but also for Word of Pain, as -1 to hit is huge when many Nighthaunt inflict mortal wounds on 6s.

I must say though with the changes to the battleshock phase, Daughters of Khaine have several good ways to avoid taking battleshock tests at all.  Witchbrew and Covenant of the Iron Heart are fantastic ways to ignore battleshock, all without having to spend a command point to use Inspiring Presence.

I am also looking to take advantage of our Blood Rites, as basically we get similar benefits to the new command abilities without having to spend command points.

I'm excited for 2.0!  Nearly have another unit of Blood Sisters built to bring me up to 20.  Going to build another Medusae for more spell casting too.  Our army can nearly do anything you want it to.  It is a great feeling!

Edited June 26, 2018 by DJMoose

[Lemondish]

1 hour ago, DJMoose said:

 I've been considering allying in a Sorceress not only for extra spell potential, but also for Word of Pain, as -1 to hit is huge when many Nighthaunt inflict mortal wounds on 6s.

Just note that many of the Nighthaunt's new models with Frightful Touch carry the wording "unmodified hit roll of 6". That would mean -1 to hit won't impact the MW generation of the army, though likewise +1 to hit won't help boost it either.

[DJMoose]

Just now, Lemondish said:

Just note that many of the Nighthaunt's new models with Frightful Touch carry the wording "unmodified hit roll of 6". That would mean -1 to hit won't impact the MW generation of the army, though likewise +1 to hit won't help boost it either.

Ah that's good then.  Probably spend the 40 more points for another Medusae.

[Aaron Schmidt]

Anyone want to guess when the Start Collecting will come out again?

[DJMoose]

Just now, Aaron Schmidt said:

Anyone want to guess when the Start Collecting will come out again?

Speculation is December probably.  Hopefully we'll get some army specific Endless Spells then too!

[Aaron Schmidt]

1 minute ago, DJMoose said:

Speculation is December probably.  Hopefully we'll get some army specific Endless Spells then too!

Holy ******. I suppose that will give me some time to paint my Khinerai. 

[Aaron Schmidt]

So, an ally that I've been brainstorming on is the Shadow Blade Assassin. I can see her flying out of a unit of Khinerai that charged a backfield character. Some of the new artifacts that have been previewed or rumored would be a good fit for that character too.

[sorokyl]

11 minutes ago, DJMoose said:

Speculation is December probably.  Hopefully we'll get some army specific Endless Spells then too!

Actually, I think they are a good candidate for a battleforce box. If that happens, no start collecting until next spring/summer maybe.   That being said, They are competing for "Order" battleforce slots with Idoneth Deepkin and (of course) Stormcast Eternals, so it's not a guaranteed thing. 

I have a morathi sitting on my bookshelve in her box just waiting on some sort of deal on DoK units.  5 more months of dust minimum... 

[Gecktron]

40 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Actually, I think they are a good candidate for a battleforce box. If that happens, no start collecting until next spring/summer maybe.   That being said, They are competing for "Order" battleforce slots with Idoneth Deepkin and (of course) Stormcast Eternals, so it's not a guaranteed thing. 

I have a morathi sitting on my bookshelve in her box just waiting on some sort of deal on DoK units.  5 more months of dust minimum... 

I think every DoK box set will have the problem that they dont really fit well inside the established system. All hero options the followers of Khaine have at the moment are tied to expensive centerpiece models (either the Cauldron of Blood or Morathi). The one set released last year had basically be our Start Collecting box. A Cauldron and one unit of Witch Aelfs comes out at around 105€. Most SC! gives you around 120€ of value. 

[sorokyl]

35 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

I think every DoK box set will have the problem that they dont really fit well inside the established system. All hero options the followers of Khaine have at the moment are tied to expensive centerpiece models (either the Cauldron of Blood or Morathi). The one set released last year had basically be our Start Collecting box. A Cauldron and one unit of Witch Aelfs comes out at around 105€. Most SC! gives you around 120€ of value. 

I disagree. Seems to fit exactly in the established system.  Cauldron of blood seems like a great centerpiece for a Start collecting set. It cost $75 USD.  Compare to other SC centerpieces:

Seraphon - Carnosaur is $85 USD
Fireslayers - Magmadroth  is $85 USD
Skeleton Horde - Mortarch is $80 USD
Pestilens, Malignants, Flesh-eater Courts Beastclaw Raiders, Sylvaneth all have ~$60 USD centerpieces.

The fact that The blood Cauldron set comes with 2 heroes on foot means you're getting 13 models (1 centerpiece, 3 heroes, 10 infantry), which is exactly in line with SC boxes.  The points value is much better than most SC boxes.   And as you've pointed out they've already released this before as the "Blood Coven" for a slightly higher price point.  I've actually sold these for >50% their MSRP lately so the value is there.   

It's the right value, the right amount of plastic, the right number of models, and in line with other SC sets. Seems like a no brainer. 

What I'm interested in is the potential Battleforce box. I could see it being blood coven + mellusai/khinerai in some combo. Maybe more witch aelves.  The fact that the Cauldron kit has 3 heroes means that it's the only hero kit you really need in the battleforce. 
 

[Overread]

Honestly even if GW just reboxed Witch Aelves into a 20 man boxed set and released that; provided there was a discount compared to the current set of 10 that would be something. The WE are still priced as an optional elite army component price rather than a battleline model that's the cornerstone of the army. It's a hangover from when the Dark Elves were split up. 

The worst thing is that when you're (from GW direct) looking at £105 for a single 30 model group that is expected to be one of several in your army; then that is going to turn a lot of people away from the DoK. That DoK are not even getting pushed during the relaunch is a worry. I can't see GW dropping them after putting money into the new sculpts; but at the same time it seems so odd to put all that effort into a new faction and then not followthrough with a getting started box and other adjustments to better represent them and make them interesting. Right now you can spend over £400 and only have your basic troops covered and NOTHING else. No heroes, beasts, riders, khinari etc... That's the price of some full armies with a lot more diversity. 

It's a big issue for DoK in securing popularity and I really hope GW addresses this before Christmas. 

[syph0n]

48 minutes ago, Overread said:

Honestly even if GW just reboxed Witch Aelves into a 20 man boxed set and released that; provided there was a discount compared to the current set of 10 that would be something. The WE are still priced as an optional elite army component price rather than a battleline model that's the cornerstone of the army. It's a hangover from when the Dark Elves were split up. 

The worst thing is that when you're (from GW direct) looking at £105 for a single 30 model group that is expected to be one of several in your army; then that is going to turn a lot of people away from the DoK. That DoK are not even getting pushed during the relaunch is a worry. I can't see GW dropping them after putting money into the new sculpts; but at the same time it seems so odd to put all that effort into a new faction and then not followthrough with a getting started box and other adjustments to better represent them and make them interesting. Right now you can spend over £400 and only have your basic troops covered and NOTHING else. No heroes, beasts, riders, khinari etc... That's the price of some full armies with a lot more diversity. 

It's a big issue for DoK in securing popularity and I really hope GW addresses this before Christmas. 

I don't see any price cut at all. If we get a Start Collecting or larger box that's the extent of the discounts I think. The Khinerai are expensive for their points value too. 

With that said, the DoK and Idoneth have played an important role in recent story progression so even if they're expensive (and I've no idea on sales figures), they're most definitely here to stay as a faction. (Irrespective of how new they are too!!) 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by syph0n

[Tip4Tap]

Hey guys I’m looking for some advice,

I’m looking at DoK as my age of Sigmar 2 army. If I decide to go ahead with them they’ll be the army I take to tournaments. I’m looking for any hints, tips and advice you guys can give me about the army going into AoS 2.

 from a competitive perspective how do you guys think DoK sit going into 2nd edition? 

Do you think they’ll be in a position to deal with seraphon, death, Slaanesh and the other top tier armies coming into 2nd edition.

Do you think the hag queen only being 60 points will get nerfed?

As has been said above this army seems insanely expensive to get into, the main reason I’m asking these question is because I don’t want to invest a shed load of money to find the army is completely shocking in 2nd edition.

What do you guys think? Any help is always appreciated 

[Overread]

I think GW of now is keen to avoid armies being "dumped" through their own rules system. We've seen this to great effect in 40K over this new wave of codex so I think they will continue it with Sigmar. Basically its daft for GW to invest in launching armies and then to let them flounder to nothing. 

 

As for its DoK will become a top tier army that's a harder thing to say at this stage. I think that once the book is out and has been out for a while we'll get a better idea of how Sigmar 2.0 turns out as a game. Furthermore we'll get an idea of how the new Endless Spells and artifacts are taken up at the competitive end (or not) and how dominant the summoning rules turn out to be. There's a lot of question marks at present so I'd say its hard to say yes or no.

I don't think DoK will be bottom though and I'd say they are likely in that bracket where a good player could place well with them at a competition. 

[AndyTheSlayer]

Been lurking for awhile and it’s finally time to post!

Ever since Adepticon I’ve been slowly building my DoK force and using these forums to gather the information needed. Right now I’m sitting at a 1,500 list that features,

Morathi

Medusa

Bloodwrack Shrine

Cauldron of Blood

x10 Blood Sisters

x5 Heartremders

Then my plan for 2k  is x5 Doomfire Warlocks and x10 Blood Stalkers.

What are everyone’s thoughts on artifacts and temple choices? Worth dropping something to get temple nest? Too many large targets? Cheers!

[Richelieu]

14 minutes ago, AndyTheSlayer said:

Been lurking for awhile and it’s finally time to post!

Ever since Adepticon I’ve been slowly building my DoK force and using these forums to gather the information needed. Right now I’m sitting at a 1,500 list that features,

Morathi

Medusa

Bloodwrack Shrine

Cauldron of Blood

x10 Blood Sisters

x5 Heartremders

Then my plan for 2k  is x5 Doomfire Warlocks and x10 Blood Stalkers.

What are everyone’s thoughts on artifacts and temple choices? Worth dropping something to get temple nest? Too many large targets? Cheers!

Blood Stalkers are quite poor performers competitively.  

You are also short of your battle line requirements.  

Hag Queens are a must for DoK as well.  

I'd consider this list:

Morathi

Hag queen on cauldron

Blood wrack shrine general

Hag queen on foot

Blood sisters x 20

Witches x10

Witches x 30

Heartrenders x 5

1990 points

So many threats in the list your opponent will have a hell of a time with target selection.

 

[AndyTheSlayer]

13 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Blood Stalkers are quite poor performers competitively.  

You are also short of your battle line requirements.  

Hag Queens are a must for DoK as well.  

I'd consider this list:

Morathi

Hag queen on cauldron

Blood wrack shrine general

Hag queen on foot

Blood sisters x 20

Witches x10

Witches x 30

Heartrenders x 5

1990 points

So many threats in the list your opponent will have a hell of a time with target selection.

 

Like the suggestion. Yeah I goofed and though the Doomfires were battle line. 

I can see the Stalkers not being able to do enough damage, but I like the models so much I may still end up squeezing only 5 into my final list.

Could more Blood Sisters replace the witches? Or have witches been such performers that I would be foolish to not take at least 30.  Which also makes me question if I should do 30-10-10 witches for my battle line so I can make something else other than my medusa the general.

And I love the Blood wrack shrine model, I find it hard to see it living up to it potential. What are peoples experiences with it? Steed for power I would guess, give it what command / relic thou? 

Thanks!

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, AndyTheSlayer said:

Like the suggestion. Yeah I goofed and though the Doomfires were battle line. 

I can see the Stalkers not being able to do enough damage, but I like the models so much I may still end up squeezing only 5 into my final list.

Could more Blood Sisters replace the witches? Or have witches been such performers that I would be foolish to not take at least 30.  Which also makes me question if I should do 30-10-10 witches for my battle line so I can make something else other than my medusa the general.

And I love the Blood wrack shrine model, I find it hard to see it living up to it potential. What are peoples experiences with it? Steed for power I would guess, give it what command / relic thou? 

Thanks!

Yes, you can absolutely go exclusively Blood Sisters if your general is a Medusa/Bloodwrack.  Many people have reported good results with Bloodwrack.  13 wounds is very hefty for a wizard, it makes it more likely she'll make the most of her shooting attack and she's adequate in melee.  

As far as command traits go, I think if you're using a big block of Blood Sisters that Hagg Nar temple is best, so your trait is chosen for you.  Artifact is a tough choice.  I don't think there's really one that stands above the rest in that list.  

 

[Lemondish]

I've been following the old DoK thread for a long while and although I was initially driven to collect Nighthaunt as my first foray into AoS, I've been constantly thinking about doing a DoK army. I decided to take the plunge today, but I see that there are a lot of units temporarily out of stock on the GW site. 

Is this a dark omen, an influx of new DoK players, or a sign at a boxed set incoming?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Lemondish

[Richelieu]

2 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

Is this a dark omen, an influx of new DoK players, or a sign at a boxed set incoming?

I wouldn't read too much into it.  New product releases involve capacity planning, which is a dark art at best.  If a product is more popular than expected you either have to bring more capacity online or gamble that demand will shrink and converge with your capacity.  

Manufacturers also don't want to endanger their relationships with their retail distribution channels, so they will provide stock to retailers before keeping it for their own direct to consumer sales, even though the margin is lower.