AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Kramer]

@Fert & @Forrix I personally agree with most of both your points. There are some weird things in there but overal it’s not as bad as some reviews proclaim. (Not specifically WW) 

I think a lot of it comes down to not having a lot of nuance in the reviews and Conversations. There so much hyperbole. And when you call people on that... usually the response is: ‘no, I know it’s not that bad/good’. So most people understand they are exaggerating things, but apparently feel they won’t get a response with a nuanced statement. 🤷‍♀️

[Fert]

5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

@Fert & @Forrix I personally agree with most of both your points. There are some weird things in there but overal it’s not as bad as some reviews proclaim. (Not specifically WW) 

I think a lot of it comes down to not having a lot of nuance in the reviews and Conversations. There so much hyperbole. And when you call people on that... usually the response is: ‘no, I know it’s not that bad/good’. So most people understand they are exaggerating things, but apparently feel they won’t get a response with a nuanced statement. 🤷‍♀️

Totes Mcgotes!

[nissefika]

Is this the boring truth, and all the ships are a traps?

To move the arme is going to be hard (but Fyreslyers also have 4 and they work) and going to have 18 inch shooting on the thunders re-rolling 1 to hit (on 3 units) and wound. and they also is going to be at -2 to hit.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Thryng

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aetheric Navigator (100)
Battlesmith (140)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

Units
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
3 x Skywardens (100)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

Edited January 16, 2020 by nissefika

[Bimli]

19 minutes ago, nissefika said:

Is this the boring truth, and all the ships are a traps?

To move the arme is going to be hard (but Fyreslyers also have 4 and they work) and going to have 18 inch shooting on the thunders re-rolling 1 to hit (on 3 units) and wound. and they also is going to be at -2 to hit.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Thryng

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aether-Khemist (90)
Aetheric Navigator (100)
Battlesmith (140)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns

Units
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
- 1x Aetheric Fumigators
- 1x Decksweepers
- 1x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
3 x Skywardens (100)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131
 

The boats give you great survivability and mobility. Why so many Khemist, whats game plan with them?

[crkhobbit]

21 minutes ago, nissefika said:

going to be at -2 to hit

...while the enemy model is within 3" of a Khemist and the lone fumigator of your 10 man unit.

[Fert]

@nissefika I think its a cool footslogging idea!  Kinda shows some versatility in our book.  

Perhaps up the number of  Aetheric Fumigators so that way you cover more unit and give out more -1's to hits.  

You sure you don't want at least one boat?!?!

 

[Baron Wastelands]

11 hours ago, leebat said:

hi all, 

 

i'm still fairly new to AoS and i'm moving over to KO as i cant face painting any more skellys,

i'm finding it hard to sort through and get a list that will be a good start. can i have so feed back this list?

its what i can make with the models i own (bar the Frigates) they would be next months buys 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar

Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Trait: Endrinprofessor
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Voidstone Orb
Aether-Khemist (90)
Arkanaut Admiral (140)

Battleline
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
3 x Endrinriggers (100)

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon

Behemoths
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon

Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

I think you’re lacking something to do the heavy lifting here. Your frigates become 1) an expensive transport for 10 arkanauts, and 2) erm, an expensive transport for a couple of characters? Maybe consider dropping (or not buying!) the second frigate, and getting 10 thunderers instead, and putting those inside the first frigate for more of a mobile gun platform?

I also wonder what role your 4 heroes are going to take? They’re all viable, but for example where is your admiral going to go? With who? Be tempted to get a third gunhauler maybe instead of the admiral (you have 10 extra points if you make the switch above), but note that that’s not advice based on me playing a list with 4 heroes in it yet, most I’ve taken so far in the new book is 2!

[nine7six]

Does lookout sir apply to heroes while in ships?

[Luzgurbel]

At first glance, I see there are 3 skyports which, imo, are one step ahead of the rest:

 

-Barak Thryng: 3 units against you can reroll 1s to hit is extremely valuable.

-Barak Nar: Thunderers as battleline + nice dispelling shenanigans (hi Tzeentch, Skavens, Sylvaneth, a bit of Nagash).

-Barak Zilfin: rerolling 1s to hit against flyers and Frigates as battleline. My preferred skyport.

 

Opinions? Good things (in the meta) about the rest?

[Forrix]

I really like Barak Zon for Skywardens and the +2 attack artifact on the Endrinmaster or Admiral. Its definitely a more niche port though.

[bsharitt]

Finally got around to actually reading the book and it looks like GW addressed just about every complaint/request I made in the survey about Kharadron Overlords(hopefully the do the same with my comments about bringing back Mordheim). I don't know if they'll be good since there were some big nerfs(I've got a couple of Aether-khemists that won't be seeing much use now), but that's not as important to me as actually feeling thematic with the lore and background, which this book seems to address. So I think I'll be happy with it once I get it on the table win or lose.

[Nick907]

Rules question:

the ‘Aether injection boosters’ allows an Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit to use the ‘fly high’ ability from the gunhauler warscroll. Gunhauler warscroll says it is a ‘sky vessel’ and the ‘hitcher’ rule says ‘sky vessel’ but the Endrinmaster is a ‘sky farer’.  

Will Endrinriggers be able to use the ‘hitcher’ rule when the Endrinmaster uses the ‘fly high’ ability, or does ‘hitcher’ only apply to models with the ‘sky vessel’ keyword? 
 

I’m thinking they cannot, but it might be worth an faq. 

[Azamar]

43 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

Rules question:

the ‘Aether injection boosters’ allows an Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit to use the ‘fly high’ ability from the gunhauler warscroll. Gunhauler warscroll says it is a ‘sky vessel’ and the ‘hitcher’ rule says ‘sky vessel’ but the Endrinmaster is a ‘sky farer’.  

Will Endrinriggers be able to use the ‘hitcher’ rule when the Endrinmaster uses the ‘fly high’ ability, or does ‘hitcher’ only apply to models with the ‘sky vessel’ keyword? 
 

I’m thinking they cannot, but it might be worth an faq. 

It would go by the sky vessel keyword, so no. But thank you for the hilarious image of a bunch of balloon dwarfs launching into the air like some kind of chain of monkeys

[Fisdantilus]

So I am coming back to the game after a couple years away and was excited for the Kharadron Book.  I definitely see some of the anti-synergy issues but it does seem nothing is overtly overpowered or the only way to build the army so there is some areas to play around. 

I put the list below together with the thought that it was highly mobile and flexible, could react on the table quickly, has a strong combat general, ability to heal the ships, can focus fire key pieces of my opponent's forces, and while the Copters are an out of the box choice, are good for dealing with larger units so better attacks can go elsewhere, have a small amount of mortal wound output,  and they fit the highly mobile and reactive theme of the army.

Will definitely lose the battle on drops but the thought was can corner deploy with arkanaut screen against melee alpha's and against shooting alpha can decide to use aethergold after you see how much damage they do to your ships before making saves 4+ rerollable.  As long as you survive, riggers and general can heal in hero phase before movement.

Accepting the fact that an MSU list like this will take practice to play well, is this something that could be viable in the current meta?  Again, just coming back and do not expect to go to any major events this year but if I am going to put the time in to build, paint and play I want something that can have a game into what's out there.

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zon
LEADERS
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Command Trait : Bearer of the Ironstar
- Artefact : Aethersped Hammer
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact : Voidstone Orb
UNITS
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun : Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks : Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
- 1 x Decksweepers
- 1 x Aethercannons
- 1 x Grundstok Mortars
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun : Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks : Zonbarcorp 'Debtsettler' Spar Torpedo
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 1 x Skyhooks
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 1 x Skyhooks
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 1 x Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1 x Skypikes
- 1 x Light Skyhooks
3 x Gyrocopters (180)
- Allies
BEHEMOTHS
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun : Heavy Sky Cannon

[Kramer]

9 minutes ago, Fisdantilus said:

Accepting the fact that an MSU list like this will take practice to play well, is this something that could be viable in the current meta?  Again, just coming back and do not expect to go to any major events this year but if I am going to put the time in to build, paint and play I want something that can have a game into what's out there.

 

I think it's a bit early to really call but the first games people played seemed to play well. It's a good list of which you can easily build out if elements don't work. 

You have two endrinworks & artefacts. I don't see a battalion nor are you Ziflin. So where did you get the second one from?

Also you have everything for a Escort wing. So I also wondered i you wouldn't be better off by dropping them for that escort wing. That gives you less drops, an extra artefact, an extra endrinwork and a command point. (unless it's already in of course. 

[Bimli]

3 hours ago, nine7six said:

Does lookout sir apply to heroes while in ships?

Yes there is no rule to state otherwise so raw yep totally legal... unless I missed it in the rules some where?

[Aelfric]

Just a question, but would a charging Frigate with a garrison stop Handgunners (or similar) from using it's stand and shoot ability since there will be more than one unit within 3"?

[Sesom]

7 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

Just a question, but would a charging Frigate with a garrison stop Handgunners (or similar) from using it's stand and shoot ability since there will be more than one unit within 3"?

Seems like this would be the case, the only exception to the garrison rule for ships appears to be that the garrisoned unit just don't count towards objectives.

[Auretious Taak]

8 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:

@Auretious Taak Since Urbaz/Zilfin can take ships as battleline there is some the opportunity for some very silly lists. You can go really low model count:

• 4 model 1K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, & Brokk or the Flying Endrinmaster
• 6 model 2K Zilfin army: 3 Frigates, 2 Ironclads, & the flying Endrinmaster

Both those list would be bad, but I would definitely try and use them in a non-serious game if I had a couple more boats. If your opponent had a low model list, you could probably play a 2K game in about an hour!

Your second list is illegal. You have 5 behemoths at 2,000 points, you can only have 4. Just because the Frigates are battleline doesn't mean they also lose their behemoth keyword.

[nissefika]

4 hours ago, Fert said:

@nissefika I think its a cool footslogging idea!  Kinda shows some versatility in our book.  

Perhaps up the number of  Aetheric Fumigators so that way you cover more unit and give out more -1's to hits.  

You sure you don't want at least one boat?!?!

 

Well idont play ko but was thinking to start and  if, i would use a bot.

But now idont think it i am going to start, bots list arnt as good. Offcours that what i think, could by wrong. I am worried of the lack off mortel-w save.  And then half movement if you have more then x models in them o so i can increce movement of thunders with 1" for 510p woo hoo. Like you cant fly high ok, but then also half movement why? Alot of that, thunders cant have -1 to hit, ok they are attacking the bot sure, then alsa no +1 to hit why? 

 

Well i guesse a LOT of people already have talk about it. I would say the armé is unic and seem fun to play, have fun.

 

[Fisdantilus]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

 

You have two endrinworks & artefacts. I don't see a battalion nor are you Ziflin. So where did you get the second one from?

Also you have everything for a Escort wing. So I also wondered i you wouldn't be better off by dropping them for that escort wing. That gives you less drops, an extra artefact, an extra endrinwork and a command point. (unless it's already in of course. 

It is in Escort Wing.  I must have left it off when I pasted.

[Soolong]

5 hours ago, Auretious Taak said:

Your second list is illegal. You have 5 behemoths at 2,000 points, you can only have 4. Just because the Frigates are battleline doesn't mean they also lose their behemoth keyword.

Yes it does. Newer battletomes allow this when making behemoths battleline, FEC and BCR would be pretty screwed otherwise 😅.

[herohammer]

6 hours ago, Auretious Taak said:

Your second list is illegal. You have 5 behemoths at 2,000 points, you can only have 4. Just because the Frigates are battleline doesn't mean they also lose their behemoth keyword.

They put out an errata to the core rules for matched play that battle line behemoths don't count towards the behemoth limit.

[5kaven5lave]

Thoughts on Grapnel Launcher vs. Drill Launcher for Endrinriggers? In my list I’d be using them to screen boats so the no retreat ability would be useful to stop retreat and charge right? But how much would I lose vs. the extra rend and the chance of 3MW?

Cheers. 

[Boar]

33 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Thoughts on Grapnel Launcher vs. Drill Launcher for Endrinriggers? In my list I’d be using them to screen boats so the no retreat ability would be useful to stop retreat and charge right? But how much would I lose vs. the extra rend and the chance of 3MW?

Cheers. 

vs 4+ save drill have avg.damage of 0,94, skyhook/grapnel 0,83. Against lighter armor drill is slightly worse, but gains even more vs 3+ and more. In situation of -1 to hit drill would always be better than skyhook/grapnel.