AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

[stratigo]

On 6/13/2021 at 12:49 PM, Kitsumy said:

Rumour is 195 morsar, 380 or 390 turtle i dont remember,sharks 125. I didnt read about others units, turtle one is sligthy more than morathy %wise. Morsar raised around 16%?, Around the same as the dok troops leaks.shark raised 15% so still the same as morsar.

 

Not too big hit if we compare it with dok leaks, we got around the same, problem is we didnt see all units, and maybe others armys dont get hit so big.

 

Per example vampire cavalry now cost the same our morsar, but they have 15w vs our 12, 3+ vs our 4+, do like 18 average dmg vs our 10,5 cant retreat and charge doing mortals vs our average 3mw once per game, we have 4 more move but 50- leadership..... So i dont get why people always cry about eels and cry new vampires are useless, eels are even average for me, not op for sure.

 

 

 

No unit exists in a vaccum and they all live and die on their buffs and supports

[Molkaice]

For some reason as I think about it I have a bad feeling that the soulscryers ability may become a command ability instead of innate.  I really don't want them to just take current abilities and put it behind a command point cost wall to "give" IDK more command abilities to the army. 

[Painbringer]

[Kitsumy]

Well, my idk and seraphon were the only armys that got hit really hard, like 15-20% when everyoneelse were 5%. I cant understand that useless company really.

Why do our morsar cost the same as vampire horses??? They have more wounds, better save, better ld, like double damage, can retreat fly and charge doing 2mw, for our 4 more move and once per game 3mw ( average). 

Im tired of gw breaking things only for people whine. People whine about eels, they delete them, people whine about lumineths, im sure they will get deleted soon despite being bad tourney wise.

And tank eels nerfed by 11%??? The cap on saves was allready enough nerf on them, the ussual 5% nerf others got should have been enough.

 

Balds are units of 10 still, despite only 5 will fight..... Only hope is faqs raising every 32ml base units range to 2"

[Frowny]

@kitusmy not to be a debbie downer, but eels have been incredibly strong for ages. People have played 5 years of tournament winning eel spam lists. It will be nice to see other things. 

It looks like the eidalons, especially the eidolon of the sea will be excellent. I'm also interested to see what people try with namarti reavers. You can get their 3 shots to +3/+3 pretty reliably, which will make them brutal if charged. Singleton sharks also look every solid as relatively cheap monsters which were already pretty good. I don't think IDK made out worse than others. 

[Kitsumy]

How will we see dufferent list? Thralls are totally useless since only 5 if 10 will fight. Reavers were the worst ranged unit in game. And 5 points less wont change that.

Will be same eels turtle volturnos. But with 2 unit less...

 

And how is mage avatar fun??? He is useless, 2 spells for 355???? New wolf vampire cast same 2 spells. With +1 to cast and also reroll them for vyrkos. For only 200p... Mage avatar wont see tables till he go down to 250 minimun. Melee one is fun for me, should be 250 or so, but at least the aura is fun

[azdimy]

2 hours ago, Frowny said:

People have played 5 years of tournament winning eel spam lists. It will be nice to see other things.

The idoneth deepkins were released in 2018!

[Drofnum]

3 hours ago, Frowny said:

Singleton sharks also look every solid as relatively cheap monsters which were already pretty good. I don't think IDK made out worse than others. 

Sharks arent monsters.  The problem is that they made our good units more expensive without giving us any viable alternatives by lowering points on Namarti or giving Thralls 2" reach(that we know of yet). I dont think it will knock Idoneth down to trash but I dont think they will be on top tables nearly as much, which isnt a terrible thing but if they wanted to mix up what folks use then they need to buff the weak units while nerfing the too strong units.

[Kelsicle]

15 minutes ago, Drofnum said:

Sharks arent monsters.  The problem is that they made our good units more expensive without giving us any viable alternatives by lowering points on Namarti or giving Thralls 2" reach(that we know of yet). I dont think it will knock Idoneth down to trash but I dont think they will be on top tables nearly as much, which isnt a terrible thing but if they wanted to mix up what folks use then they need to buff the weak units while nerfing the too strong units.

100% this.

People have been crying out for Eel nerfs for years without thinking about where it will leave the army as a whole competitively. I have the feeling we will be in a weird place where we have to drop a unit of eels and end up with a 70 point hole in our lists with nothing cheap enough to fill it.

[Rhetoric]

Oof, did the Soulscryer really need to go up?  I’m not sure the threat of deep strike is worth it anymore considering the shrunken table size.

But my competitive list is now down to one hero. depending on how the new battle plans work in GHB I think this could be very bad, considering the new rules for Heroes in 3.0.  Volturnos/King is the only hero worth considering in competitive lists.  
 

MAYBE the Eidolon of the Storm will be a little more useful with his aura.  Tough spot for us with these points.  

Edited June 18, 2021 by Rhetoric

[Molkaice]

So reading the warscroll for shield eels it doesn't say "+1" to their save if they charge but that their save becomes a 3+ so technically wouldn't they still get the +1 to the new save anyway?

As for point changes, it hurts but all it will show is that the same stuff will be used anyway.  Thralls, soulrender, lotann, and aspect of sea are still hard to play outside of super fluff fun games with someone who also brings really bad models.  I'm amused that the tide caster went up even though its rarely used, like why add 5 points to a unit I picked once in a blue moon?

[Kitsumy]

Yes is the thing i have been saying, idk playable list got 15% worse, none cares about the other useles half.

 

And im sure we cant play without 2 eels unit on actual lists, and tank eels saving at 3 not 2, turtle aura losing big part of his power etc

 

Best buff was the addition on new posterboys ( cities) as ally. At least elves part. Why would u use thralls when u can take phoenix guard or black guard? They are better in everything. Same with reavers, why would u take them when shadow warriors or darkshards are better in everything.

[mrteige]

What do you guys feel about Gotrek in IDK armies again.? Think he could be viable with the massive points drop and the increase of monster that i think we are going to see in 3.0

Have you guys thought about him?

[woolf]

33 minutes ago, mrteige said:

What do you guys feel about Gotrek in IDK armies again.? Think he could be viable with the massive points drop and the increase of monster that i think we are going to see in 3.0

Have you guys thought about him?

yep if he keeps his warscroll and on smaller board etc he should be great

[mrteige]

39 minutes ago, woolf said:

yep if he keeps his warscroll and on smaller board etc he should be great

my thoughts exactly

[Baron Klatz]

So basically Deepkin sea cavalry lists like always with new priest & wizard stuff thrown in or go crazy on allies. Despite the Deepkin infantry getting the short end of the coral stick that does sound like fun.

I run both Deepkin and Stormcast armies so trying out some mixes for the new edition can be fun with their tougher lightning infantry. Might try out Sylvaneth too.(and I still need that Kraken-eater merc)

Hopefully a new battletome will address the infantry with buffs alongside expanding the warband into units. Harpoon namarti and battle crab units would be excellent.

[azdimy]

On 6/18/2021 at 9:24 AM, Rhetoric said:

Oof, did the Soulscryer really need to go up?  I’m not sure the threat of deep strike is worth it anymore considering the shrunken table size.

He looks solid to me being a priest he now comes with 3 prayers and can use 1 a turn and dispell  1 endless spells or 1 invocation

[azdimy]

On 6/18/2021 at 9:29 AM, Molkaice said:

So reading the warscroll for shield eels it doesn't say "+1" to their save if they charge but that their save becomes a 3+ so technically wouldn't they still get the +1 to the new save anyway?

As written yes,  that s a good for us as it means 2+ defensive eels are still a thing

[Leemer]

Interesting now we can ally the phoenix temple units from CoS. What do people think of bringing Frostheart Phoenixes?

Seems like a pretty solid choice and they actually got cheaper. Very hard to kill with the 4+ aftersave and hero healing. The permanent -1 wound aura looks useful and not sure we have many existing ways to debuff.

[Praecautus]

Hello wet-elf fans! I am hoping AoS 3 may not be the whirlpool of doom I fear it could be and looking to spruce up my armies. I have a roughly 2k Idoneth force that was built for fun/fluff reasons I am  looking for some inspiration on how to get it AoS 3 ready. Happy to buy models if needed

Akhelian king

Tidecaster

aspect of the sea/storm (not fully built)

soul render

spulscryer

2x10. Thralls

1x10 reavers 

6 eels

2 allopex 

elathains soul raid so I have a crab!

I have some potential allies

5 khinerai w deepstrike

Random stormcast

 

Is the option still buy more eels? Or is there something more fun?

I very much like building synergies with units and firing out fun combos or tricks

[azdimy]

30 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

Hello wet-elf fans! I am hoping AoS 3 may not be the whirlpool of doom I fear it could be and looking to spruce up my armies. I have a roughly 2k Idoneth force that was built for fun/fluff reasons I am  looking for some inspiration on how to get it AoS 3 ready. Happy to buy models if needed

Akhelian king

Tidecaster

aspect of the sea/storm (not fully built)

soul render

spulscryer

2x10. Thralls

1x10 reavers 

6 eels

2 allopex 

elathains soul raid so I have a crab!

I have some potential allies

5 khinerai w deepstrike

Random stormcast

 

Is the option still buy more eels? Or is there something more fun?

I very much like building synergies with units and firing out fun combos or tricks

Probably nore eels. But Gotrek with his point decrease and access to the nee heroic abilities seems to be a very good ally. In Ironarch he can even benefit from the Tides. With the smaller board, the vanguard battallion and the ability to run and charge turn 2 you can probably send him wherever you want and he won t budge

[Praecautus]

33 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Probably nore eels. But Gotrek with his point decrease and access to the nee heroic abilities seems to be a very good ally. In Ironarch he can even benefit from the Tides. With the smaller board, the vanguard battallion and the ability to run and charge turn 2 you can probably send him wherever you want and he won t budge

Hmm Gotrek could be something a bit different. I suspect more eels are needed.

I am finding it interesting there has been a lot of Idoneth artwork associated with AoS 3 so far, maybe a hint? I hope 

[JackStreicher]

Ishlean Guard:

Hiw does the whole effect stacking work?

Example: They get +1 armour from the Leviadon. They‘re attacked by  a -2 rend attack.

a) Do the modifiers calculate outside of the save: +1-2= -1 rend -> immune to rend so the save stays at 4+
b) the unreadable completely ignores the rend, only adding the positive modifier: 3+ save remains against any kind of rend.

 

Yesterday I played it like a.

If I did it wrong, could someone please direct me to the rules paragraph where I can look it up?

[Kenk]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Ishlean Guard:

Hiw does the whole effect stacking work?

Example: They get +1 armour from the Leviadon. They‘re attacked by  a -2 rend attack.

a) Do the modifiers calculate outside of the save: +1-2= -1 rend -> immune to rend so the save stays at 4+
b) the unreadable completely ignores the rend, only adding the positive modifier: 3+ save remains against any kind of rend.

 

Yesterday I played it like a.

If I did it wrong, could someone please direct me to the rules paragraph where I can look it up?

Why would you calculate the net result with a rend which they’re immune to...? The only modifier which applies is the +1. They’re 3+ within the aura or cover, or 2+ on the charge.

[JackStreicher]

3 minutes ago, Kenk said:

Why would you calculate the net result with a rend which they’re immune to...? The only modifier which applies is the +1. They’re 3+ within the aura or cover, or 2+ on the charge.

Due to the new ruling that modifiers are calculated „outside“ of the save first