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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Idoneth Deepkin Discussion

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Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Idoneth Deepkin. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Idoneth Deepkin in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (like me!). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/16455-lets-chat-idoneth-deepkin/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

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Since the previous thread got locked just after I posted I'll post again here (this time with a bonus WIP picture!) Currently working on a 2k deepkin list that Id like some feedback on as I haven't been able to play throughout pretty much the whole GHB2017 period.

 

2k list:

King (general) (reroll run and charges, cloud of midnight/potion of frenzy) - 240pts

AoSea (steed of tides) - 420pts

Tidecaster (either coral ring or shells of prophecy, undecided spell) - 100pts

Soulscryer - 80pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

9x morsarr - 420pts

Allopex - 140pts

 

Royal Council - 60pts

Chronomatic Cogs - 60pts

60 spare points for spells (bwv and swords/maelstrom/chains?)

 

The general idea of the army is to alpha strike turn 1/delay and then all charge turn 2. The soulscryer would take the morsarr and allopex off with him to deploy on the charge turn whilst the AoSea would teleport the king to get it all with charge range (all with rerolls assuming the sharks shooting hurts something).

Either the tidecaster or the AoSea would cast cogs and put it to +2" move and charge helping the ishalean move up to maybe charge too and helping everything make their charges (morsarr will be at +5" with the soulscryer buff for an effective 4" rerollable charge). Given the importance of the cogs I've decided to give the tidecaster something to help ensure the cast.

AoSea will move up and act as support whilst the tidecaster sits back blasting from a distance.

The battalion is mostly for the bonus relic and to reduce drops a bit so could be removed if you think it's useless and maybe pick up some allied dok fliers alongside the spare 60pts.

 

As for enclave I see the options as either;

- Ionrach - king loses rerolls but the spells are more likely to go off. No allies means the only benefit is magic.

- Dhom hain - general all round bonuses, lets the army spread out without relying on king for rerolls and helps to take out enemy monsters

- briomdar - allows the soulscryer to take the king with him and let's them deploy more spread out when they do arrive meaning they can attack over a larger area. AoSea can then use steed to teleport himself up for support. Other effect is mostly useless but might allow some positioning tricks with the tidecaster and soulscryer.

 

I'd like the army to be strong but not overturned. Unfortunately it seems like all eel armies might be too strong against some forces but I'm not a fan of the narmati and only picked up idoneth because I could avoid them with battleline eels. I would be willing to drop some eels and getting another allopex if that would make the list more fun to play against (maybe reducing morsarr from 9 to 6?)

IMG_20180616_134400.jpg

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@Yoshiya Would it be worth thinking about Fuethan considering the number of mounts you've got? That was the main enclave that stood out for me in an eel list. You still get the re-rolls to hit for a couple of turns (without the reliance on charging) and also get to reroll 1s for wounding with your mounts (who I find seem to do most of the damage in games!).

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1 minute ago, divineauthority said:

@Yoshiya Would it be worth thinking about Fuethan considering the number of mounts you've got? That was the main enclave that stood out for me in an eel list. You still get the re-rolls to hit for a couple of turns (without the reliance on charging) and also get to reroll 1s for wounding with your mounts (who I find seem to do most of the damage in games!).

I considered fuethan but  I'm not sure if I like losing the ability to retreat and charge. The list doesn't have a huge number of units so I like the tactical flexibility that comes from being able to pull out of tar pits and attack units on objectives. Especially with the 14" fly move that means I can go over my opponent onto their objectives.

 

That said, if the eels do as much work as you say they do it's definitely worth a consideration.

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1 hour ago, Yoshiya said:

Since the previous thread got locked just after I posted I'll post again here (this time with a bonus WIP picture!) Currently working on a 2k deepkin list that Id like some feedback on as I haven't been able to play throughout pretty much the whole GHB2017 period.

 

2k list:

King (general) (reroll run and charges, cloud of midnight/potion of frenzy) - 240pts

AoSea (steed of tides) - 420pts

Tidecaster (either coral ring or shells of prophecy, undecided spell) - 100pts

Soulscryer - 80pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

3x ishalean - 140pts

9x morsarr - 420pts

Allopex - 140pts

 

Royal Council - 60pts

Chronomatic Cogs - 60pts

60 spare points for spells (bwv and swords/maelstrom/chains?)

 

The general idea of the army is to alpha strike turn 1/delay and then all charge turn 2. The soulscryer would take the morsarr and allopex off with him to deploy on the charge turn whilst the AoSea would teleport the king to get it all with charge range (all with rerolls assuming the sharks shooting hurts something).

Either the tidecaster or the AoSea would cast cogs and put it to +2" move and charge helping the ishalean move up to maybe charge too and helping everything make their charges (morsarr will be at +5" with the soulscryer buff for an effective 4" rerollable charge). Given the importance of the cogs I've decided to give the tidecaster something to help ensure the cast.

AoSea will move up and act as support whilst the tidecaster sits back blasting from a distance.

The battalion is mostly for the bonus relic and to reduce drops a bit so could be removed if you think it's useless and maybe pick up some allied dok fliers alongside the spare 60pts.

 

As for enclave I see the options as either;

- Ionrach - king loses rerolls but the spells are more likely to go off. No allies means the only benefit is magic.

- Dhom hain - general all round bonuses, lets the army spread out without relying on king for rerolls and helps to take out enemy monsters

- briomdar - allows the soulscryer to take the king with him and let's them deploy more spread out when they do arrive meaning they can attack over a larger area. AoSea can then use steed to teleport himself up for support. Other effect is mostly useless but might allow some positioning tricks with the tidecaster and soulscryer.

 

I'd like the army to be strong but not overturned. Unfortunately it seems like all eel armies might be too strong against some forces but I'm not a fan of the narmati and only picked up idoneth because I could avoid them with battleline eels. I would be willing to drop some eels and getting another allopex if that would make the list more fun to play against (maybe reducing morsarr from 9 to 6?)

IMG_20180616_134400.jpg

I don't like fuethan. So I agree with not going the route. 

 

Cloud of midnight would be my go to in the king. 

 

Not entirely sure you need cogs. Effectively royal courts is a better and worse cogs. For one royal court gives you a bonus cp so you start your first turn with 2 cp. So you can use the royal court command ability twice. Giving you +6" to your morrsarr move. That with the scryer +3" charge you should have 3 units in combat turn 1 no problem. 

 

If you ran ionrach you could run a second scryer or tidecaster as needed. These back up tidecasters and scryer have a good job in helping the ritual and in make sure you can actually use the royal court command ability. 

 

 

I don't like the allopex. You could drop it and a unit of ishlaen to have 2 units of 9 morrsarr. Rush those two up turn 1. And give +3 move to 2 of your soul scryer to make sure they are in range to provide the charge bonus. 

Edit: also I believe royal court is 100pts in 2.0

Edited by mmimzie

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So I’m looking at my AoS 2 tournament army. From an aesthetic point of view I love the deepkin models I think they are some of the best yet.

from a competitive perspective how do you guys think deepkin sit going into 2nd edition? 

What do you think the strengths and weaknesses of the army will be? 

 

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18 minutes ago, thundrchickn said:

My beginning...

 

Aiming for this paint job I found on Dakka.

20180624_161039.jpg

945420_sm-Idoneth Deepkin Thrall - Back.JPG

945419_sm-Idoneth Deepkin Thrall - Front.JPG

That paint job looks clean as hell, but I can't help feeling there's one too many colors going on. I'm not half as good as this so I'm probably wrong though.

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3 hours ago, thundrchickn said:

My beginning...

 

Aiming for this paint job I found on Dakka.

 

945419_sm-Idoneth Deepkin Thrall - Front.JPG

How was the armour painted? Looks stunning.

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I didn't paint it but it's fairly straight from the battletome.  Celestra grey armor, wash with coelia greenshade/medium, highlight with waywatcher green then ulthuan grey.

 

its the Dhom-Hain scheme minus the nightshade gradient on the arms and the weapon is ushabti instead of leadbelcher.

Edited by thundrchickn

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9 hours ago, Tip4Tap said:

So I’m looking at my AoS 2 tournament army. From an aesthetic point of view I love the deepkin models I think they are some of the best yet.

from a competitive perspective how do you guys think deepkin sit going into 2nd edition? 

What do you think the strengths and weaknesses of the army will be? 

 

Competitively I think the one thing we can say for sure in that the balewind is good for us. It's cheap and we have two strong spells that work very well off the bonus range. Both vorpal maelstrom and the cover save get really great buffs when used along side the vortex. It also gives us a bit of a defense against endless spells should they matter in the meta. Lastly with steed of tide the valewind+ caster combo being one model means we can keep that combo mobile if needed. 

 

From there we have a debate of morrsarr vs thralls. Which has been going on since the release of the deepkin book. 

 

 

Thralls are all about horniness and  regaining. Being high model count means when you are on an objective its easier to control. Morphan in my opinion is the only way to do thralls.

 

Morrsarr hit hard and fast having lots of of alpha strike options. Taking important deants out of the enemy lines. They also combo well with roaming the king command ability of turn 3. As of right now I see two ways to use morrsarr. The first way is to hit hard turn 1, retreat turn 2, and hope to get another good charge in turn 3 with king buffs. Or with ishlaen holding the table a bit, then with a soul scryer bring in a big 9-12 morrsarr guard unit and a king turn 2. Pop cloud of midnight during enemy turn 2. Then have the king Chung as many CP as you could muster to buff your 9-12 man morrsarr guard unit with +4-6 attacks, charge in and delete the enemy army. 

 

 

Ishlaen are still good but are a bit weaker now. With out mystic shield getting a 2+ is possible. Meaning you can at best get a 3+ with cover and either reroll 1s with mystic shield or full refill from sisters of the thorn. The latter having an added benefit of allowing you to do bounce back mortal wounds. 

 

The list I'm going for will be 12 ishlaen and 2x6 morrsarr guard  back with royal court, and sisters of the thorn. Turn 1 charge with ishlaen and shield of thorns to do reflect damage and lock up a good chunk of the enemy army. While the 2x6 morrsarr guard units work from one side of the table chewing up units that have been cut off by the ishlaen.  Its alittle vulnerable to mortal wounds but the tide casters and ionrach enclave seek to counter that. Which gives access to good unbinds and reliable-1 to hit against some to hit based mortal wound units. 

 

Edit: also both eels and thralls have about the same vulnerability to mortal wounds. With the max unit size discount for thralls vs eels having 2 more wounds for the base price. Both armies will have about the same wounds. That said for them to be even thralls bust be taken in blocks of 30nothereise thralls ar rather weak to mortal wounds.

Edited by mmimzie

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4 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Competitively I think the one thing we can say for sure in that the balewind is good for us. It's cheap and we have two strong spells that work very well off the bonus range. Both vorpal maelstrom and the cover save get really great buffs when used along side the vortex. It also gives us a bit of a defense against endless spells should they matter in the meta. Lastly with steed of tide the valewind+ caster combo being one model means we can keep that combo mobile if needed. 

Is the balewind really that good for the cover spell though?  Maybe if you can get your tidecaster pushed up to the center of the board and then park him there but getting him in range without being able to move is going to be pretty hard, especially in an Eel heavy list mine already struggles to keep up with runs every round.

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21 minutes ago, mmimzie said:

Competitively I think the one thing we can say for sure in that the balewind is good for us. It's cheap and we have two strong spells that work very well off the bonus range. Both vorpal maelstrom and the cover save get really great buffs when used along side the vortex. It also gives us a bit of a defense against endless spells should they matter in the meta. Lastly with steed of tide the valewind+ caster combo being one model means we can keep that combo mobile if needed. 

 

From there we have a debate of morrsarr vs thralls. Which has been going on since the release of the deepkin book. 

 

 

Thralls are all about horniness and  regaining. Being high model count means when you are on an objective its easier to control. Morphan in my opinion is the only way to do thralls.

 

Morrsarr hit hard and fast having lots of of alpha strike options. Taking important deants out of the enemy lines. They also combo well with roaming the king command ability of turn 3. As of right now I see two ways to use morrsarr. The first way is to hit hard turn 1, retreat turn 2, and hope to get another good charge in turn 3 with king buffs. Or with ishlaen holding the table a bit, then with a soul scryer bring in a big 9-12 morrsarr guard unit and a king turn 2. Pop cloud of midnight during enemy turn 2. Then have the king Chung as many CP as you could muster to buff your 9-12 man morrsarr guard unit with +4-6 attacks, charge in and delete the enemy army. 

 

 

Ishlaen are still good but are a bit weaker now. With out mystic shield getting a 2+ is possible. Meaning you can at best get a 3+ with cover and either reroll 1s with mystic shield or full refill from sisters of the thorn. The latter having an added benefit of allowing you to do bounce back mortal wounds. 

 

The list I'm going for will be 12 ishlaen and 2x6 morrsarr guard  back with royal court, and sisters of the thorn. Turn 1 charge with ishlaen and shield of thorns to do reflect damage and lock up a good chunk of the enemy army. While the 2x6 morrsarr guard units work from one side of the table chewing up units that have been cut off by the ishlaen.  Its alittle vulnerable to mortal wounds but the tide casters and ionrach enclave seek to counter that. Which gives access to good unbinds and reliable-1 to hit against some to hit based mortal wound units. 

 

Edit: also both eels and thralls have about the same vulnerability to mortal wounds. With the max unit size discount for thralls vs eels having 2 more wounds for the base price. Both armies will have about the same wounds. That said for them to be even thralls bust be taken in blocks of 30nothereise thralls ar rather weak to mortal wounds.

Do you think they’ll be in a position to deal with seraphon, death, Slaanesh and the other top tier armies coming into 2nd edition.

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I, personally, will be giving a list similar to one previously by @DantePQ posted a try. It has what I want in a deepkin army, a good mix of eels and Namarti, with the support of some pretty good magic (which I expect will become more important in 2.0). It's a damn shame I couldn't fit some sharks or the Levi but it is what is.

Tidecaster x2

Spellweaver

Ishlaen x6

Morrsar x6

Morrsar x6

Thralls x30

Reavers x10

Reavers x10

If my math is correct, that puts me at 1760 with the new points, so I can throw in a render to help the block of thralls or a scryer for some deep strike fun, on top of some endless spells (Balewind Vortex is looking really good.)

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1 hour ago, Drofnum said:

Is the balewind really that good for the cover spell though?  Maybe if you can get your tidecaster pushed up to the center of the board and then park him there but getting him in range without being able to move is going to be pretty hard, especially in an Eel heavy list mine already struggles to keep up with runs every round.

Steed of tides gets you up the table in one spell 9" a way from enemy units with a 15" aura from 6" range bonus and 9" bonus on the cover spell. Not to mention the base of the balewind vortex becomes your new base. Your aura is quite a lot larger than that of the turtle. 

 

1 hour ago, Tip4Tap said:

Do you think they’ll be in a position to deal with seraphon, death, Slaanesh and the other top tier armies coming into 2nd edition.

This is why I dont like thralls. Your just play their game and your doing it badly as other airs can do it just plane better than you. 

 

The morrsarr and ishlaen list have the spell and alpha strike punch to neuter these armies before they get rolling. Death dies of you punch a few units hard enough and block grave sites. 

 

Seraphim want to keep a bunch of frogs alive for 3 turns to start making positive pts value. Which gives you two turns to kill said frogs. 

 

Slannesh I dont know slannesh to be honest. I have looked into it or followed it at all. From what I know of their faction focus they looked pretty men, but I dont know the value of their excess pts. Nor do I know exactly what units in yhier list you have to take out to stop their summoning. 

 

 

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New thread so about time I shared where my army is up to I think! Last time I posted I had painted one whole eel. I wish I could get highlights as clean as that model in thundrchickn’s post, but every model is slightly nearer. 

 

Gave these guys a try in a couple of quick 680 point games against a Daughters of khaine force. Learnt some stuff lessons about splitting up my forces in the first game and had a mega-buffed unit of blood sisters make a mess of my units one by one, but in the second game I was a bit more cautious with timing my charges, and did better. 

The Allopex is disappointing (looking through the last thread I’m sure no one will be shocked by that) but the eels are all round great.

 

currently painting a tidecaster, then after that I think an eidolon (and more eels) is called for. 

DA6B9321-C2A1-4C3E-B193-0D0DBDD5E40E.jpeg

2A1C55A0-46E9-447E-98D2-8BEBEC91843D.jpeg

90376863-5564-42E9-9E42-0DE6703B385F.jpeg

5472DFE8-F2B4-474D-AD75-9F1B3218C27E.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Azamar said:

New thread so about time I shared where my army is up to I think! Last time I posted I had painted one whole eel. I wish I could get highlights as clean as that model in thundrchickn’s post, but every model is slightly nearer.  

DA6B9321-C2A1-4C3E-B193-0D0DBDD5E40E.jpeg

2A1C55A0-46E9-447E-98D2-8BEBEC91843D.jpeg

90376863-5564-42E9-9E42-0DE6703B385F.jpeg

5472DFE8-F2B4-474D-AD75-9F1B3218C27E.jpeg

Loving the army, seems we had the same idea for the eels 🤣

May have to steal some ideas for how to do the tails on my king, that fade out looks really good.

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I feel right now there are core units for every compeditive idoneth list.

A) tide caster for cheap debuff and unbind (critical in new magic era and reducing powers of deathstar type units)

B) minimum 12+ eels, with a mix of ishlaen and morrsarr. Your hammer and anvil damage dealers

Appolexs, leviadons are too expensive or inefficent. You can take them (great models) they just wont make your points back.

After that its up to flavour. Thralls, reavers, aspect of the sea, king (and volturanos) if used properly can all have a place. 

Reavers are good in a vaccum - they get less buffs, need less buffs and can be a bit throw away. I havent seen reavers do any serious heavy lifting or be Man of the match yet, but have seen them used well for plinking off wounds, seizing objectives, screening and surprising opponents with weight of attacks.

Aspect of the sea looks amazing and does a lot of cool thing BUT it takes practice to get 420 points worth. And some games he might struggle to get there but has definitly been man of the match for me unbinding, bebuffing, killing heroes etc. Aspect also has some really powerful combinations with artefacts.

The king/voluranos on paper are amazing but a bit odd. Those buffs are amazing, re-rolls, a round of bonus attacks, bravery. And they can hit really hard. But in this new era im finding spells and dangerous units that genrate low but reliable mortal wounds can make it hard to engage with king to make use of their combat abilities.  Again you just need to think carefully and not discover you commited your king at the wrong time/got magic sniped a bit and died and suddenly lost all your precious buffs. This can mean wasting the kings combat till later turns which can feel like a let dowm.

Thralls are odd. Vicious in combat, not too expensive for a blob of 30 to be scary. But i feel you either go low 2 x 10 1 x20 or really invest in thralls to do some serious heavy lifting. They will die really quickly against some armies, but other armies do frighting amounts of damage at low model count. I guess if you go low thrall dont expect too much out of them (screening, summoning killers, munching through 1 wound units) but if you invest heavily in them some armies will hate you and some antihorde armies will wreck you. Unlike DoK our thralls are harder to just take 60 of though.

And as for more eels well...i still havent found what eels precisely do badly. Units of 3, 6, 9 all have their place, lots of buffs work well with them but they also have lots of special rules baked into their standard profile which are amazing. Fast, resilient, one shock cavlary, one rend resistant. Highish wound count and reasonable price means you can offset mortal wounds pretty well.

I must say the only problem with them (compedtively) if you dont know how to use them you real will struggle. Even with lists with only 12 and poinys heavily invested else where, they are critical for smashing enemy units and protecting your own. If you find your eels dying often and super quick you might need to check if your engageing at the right time and against the right enemies.

 

 

 

Or you can just take 9 morsarr, volutranos, and charge at high tide into allarielle the everqueen

1) 5 mortal wounds from eel shocks

2) large enough model and high move speed so all my eels could attack -

27 3+ rerolling 1's 3+ wounds rerolling wound -2 rends and 2 damage

3) didnt attack with mounts - she was dead.

Solid plan 

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7 hours ago, Azamar said:

New thread so about time I shared where my army is up to I think! Last time I posted I had painted one whole eel. I wish I could get highlights as clean as that model in thundrchickn’s post, but every model is slightly nearer. 

 

Gave these guys a try in a couple of quick 680 point games against a Daughters of khaine force. Learnt some stuff lessons about splitting up my forces in the first game and had a mega-buffed unit of blood sisters make a mess of my units one by one, but in the second game I was a bit more cautious with timing my charges, and did better. 

The Allopex is disappointing (looking through the last thread I’m sure no one will be shocked by that) but the eels are all round great.

 

currently painting a tidecaster, then after that I think an eidolon (and more eels) is called for. 

DA6B9321-C2A1-4C3E-B193-0D0DBDD5E40E.jpeg

2A1C55A0-46E9-447E-98D2-8BEBEC91843D.jpeg

90376863-5564-42E9-9E42-0DE6703B385F.jpeg

5472DFE8-F2B4-474D-AD75-9F1B3218C27E.jpeg

Amazing. Would you mind sharing your color scheme on Volturnos and both version of the eels? 

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Hello

So I've away form AOS for a while I'm coming back with 2.0 and although I have Stormcast I just not into them at the moment.

I bought the Idoneth Deepkin book soon after it came out (Love the art style and the lore).

I'm thinking about starting up some Idoneth models now but what would people recommend for starting an army?

I love the Eidolons of Mathlann. But they look hard to make and quite delicate (Especially the Sea cloak) how have people found that model?

Sadly I am aware that some the best looking models(the shark and the turtle) aren't that competitive but they look amazing.

I was also thinking of using my Stormcast to ally with the Idoneth, take the Ionrach Enclave, use the command trait and take some Concussors or Fulminators and you got some slow but very hard-hitting calvary that gets cover, can run and change, then fights first.  It also help me get a competitive army for cheaper.

 

Edited by BionicRope64

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Fortunatly I still not bought all my previous idoneth army. I didn't think about point cost and that made me write another list ( sy for my poor English)

anyway that's my 2.0 idoneth list

akelian King 240

aspect Storm 440

tidecaster 100

soulscryer 80

3 X 3 ishalean 420

2x6 morrsarr 320

royal council 60

tot 1980

dhom haim

what do you think? 

This list is without thralls. Aots with battalions can have midnight cloak and I still can chose semething aggressive for my king thx to battalion. Ishalean block enemy hit hard units while morrsarr flank key enemy units. King and AotS are Killy in combat and move very fast. My tidecaster is here to cast debuff . What do you think guys?

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13 hours ago, Yoshiya said:

Loving the army, seems we had the same idea for the eels 🤣

May have to steal some ideas for how to do the tails on my king, that fade out looks really good.

 

Yes, I noticed you had  a similar colour scheme. Great minds and all that. 

9 hours ago, markymarkka said:

Amazing. Would you mind sharing your color scheme on Volturnos and both version of the eels? 

Sure:

blue eels- naggaroth night base then mixed in increasing amounts of caledor blue to get a gradient (photo isn’t great, but basically a there’s lighter line down both flanks). Drakenhoth shade and telcis blue highlights. Fins are jokaroo orange washed with fuegan orange then highlighted with sunburst yellow. 

Green eels- incubi darkness base, then gradient made by mixing in waagh flesh. Fins were wild rider red, fuegan wash then trollslayer orange and sunburst yellow highlights. 

King- similar to the blue eels but with sodding loads of colours and mixing to try and get the gradient. Once I had enough caledor sky in the mix I started adding barharroth blue, then white to continue down to the tips of the tails. Scales were done by drybrushing- Ahriman blue mostly with others mixed in but I can’t remember quite what I mixed- think it was barharroth blue again. Any other specific part of him feel free to ask :) 

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So obviously Idoneth Deepkin points didn't change and it was only a misprint. 

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28 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

So obviously Idoneth Deepkin points didn't change and it was only a misprint. 

Obvious how and why?

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